How to make an Ultra-Competitive Army?
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
- Nightblade183
- Assassin
- Posts: 518
- Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:45 am
- Location: Rockin' Rogers, MN
- Contact:
How to make an Ultra-Competitive Army?
I an currently constructing the Hall of Fame for D.R.A.I.C.H. It is a thread dedicated as a resource that we can go to best construct different army builds and I attempt to explain how to make a particular build successful. I am currently working on the Win At All Costs Army or Ultra-Competitive Cheese. So far it looks like a WAAC builds have a lot of magic, 2 hydras, harpies and DRs, but I'd like some more imput on how to build an Ultra-Competitive Army. This is where you guys come in. I am relying on the Drucii community to help me with this and other army builds in the near future. Please post your input below. Thanks! - Nighty and the D.R.A.I.C.H. Team
...__i___
...))))) r
.\OOOOO/
~~~~~~~~~
We can't possibly be the only people on this forum who love plundering and pillaging can we? Come join the Brotherhood of The Coast, and raid til your heart's content.
Beeing ilitterit makes dis forem stewpid
8th Edition Game Tally
W/L/D
2/1/1
...))))) r
.\OOOOO/
~~~~~~~~~
We can't possibly be the only people on this forum who love plundering and pillaging can we? Come join the Brotherhood of The Coast, and raid til your heart's content.
Beeing ilitterit makes dis forem stewpid
8th Edition Game Tally
W/L/D
2/1/1
- Mordru
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1060
- Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:07 am
- Location: Plotting the return of the Cult of Pleasure
The book is so new all we have at this point is theory on an ultra competitive army. After we get some battle reports and tournament debriefs in from the field your project will pick up steam.
On to the theory, WAAC list will likely include the dragon crutch, two hyrdae, lots of harpies, shades and dark riders to play no touch and possibly just a manticore rider as the other hero with RoH, speed and aggression for magic defense.
On to the theory, WAAC list will likely include the dragon crutch, two hyrdae, lots of harpies, shades and dark riders to play no touch and possibly just a manticore rider as the other hero with RoH, speed and aggression for magic defense.
To strive, to persevere, to conquer.
When making an army i generally try to come up with a balanced concept based on each phase of the game by fielding a good selection of troops to fill each roll. My rubric generally follows 2 units of fast cav, 50+ shots per turn, 7+ pd/ 5+dd and at least 1 scroll with combat units varying greatly between lists. Also, i find my rate of success falls greatly if i take much more than 700pts in heroes for a 2k game. Granted this can change if you use big mounts, but i have no intention of fielding dragons.
Its also a good idea to assign a specific task to each of your units so they dont just fly around randomly. And i have had great results with fielding in different formations depending on list style (i think there is a great formation article in the tactics hall of fame.)
I know this doesnt throw much into the "super competitive" category but its a good base for coming up with decent lists that will perform well against most armies. In the end its just really important to conceptualize and try to understand exactly how your army will function when its on the table- whether it be focused on combat, magic etc.
*edit* I feel its important that i mention that i have not played with a 7th ed list yet, so i am reluctant to give specific advice based on something i am virtually unpracticed in.
Its also a good idea to assign a specific task to each of your units so they dont just fly around randomly. And i have had great results with fielding in different formations depending on list style (i think there is a great formation article in the tactics hall of fame.)
I know this doesnt throw much into the "super competitive" category but its a good base for coming up with decent lists that will perform well against most armies. In the end its just really important to conceptualize and try to understand exactly how your army will function when its on the table- whether it be focused on combat, magic etc.
*edit* I feel its important that i mention that i have not played with a 7th ed list yet, so i am reluctant to give specific advice based on something i am virtually unpracticed in.
"Walk softly, and carry a big gun."
- John silver
- Slave (off the Altar)
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:10 am
- Location: Omsk, Russia
- Contact:
Hi, All
Then I create my army, I try to decide what kind of army I want to get. I think that master of all - master of nothing, so try to concentrate my army on surpass opponents in 2-3 phases, and try to control my opponents army in other phases. Also then I decide what unit's include in my army I try to get good unit flexibility and flexible unit combination, so if enemy kill one or more of my unit's other my unit's still work good and I can re coordinate my force.
Then I create my army, I try to decide what kind of army I want to get. I think that master of all - master of nothing, so try to concentrate my army on surpass opponents in 2-3 phases, and try to control my opponents army in other phases. Also then I decide what unit's include in my army I try to get good unit flexibility and flexible unit combination, so if enemy kill one or more of my unit's other my unit's still work good and I can re coordinate my force.
sorry for my English
Our magic is no where close to 'ultra competitive.'
Our powerful lists are likely to look much like Mordu suggested.
I'm not convinced the dragon is actually going to be in our top tier lists but the rest looks pretty much right. Dual Hydras or a some ACR special choices are a bit of a toss up at the moment as well, hydras will look stronger the more regen that gets added to the game though.
Our powerful lists are likely to look much like Mordu suggested.
I'm not convinced the dragon is actually going to be in our top tier lists but the rest looks pretty much right. Dual Hydras or a some ACR special choices are a bit of a toss up at the moment as well, hydras will look stronger the more regen that gets added to the game though.
Take all of my posts, when taking about balance, from a perspective of an all-comers list.
- Blackfel
- Black Guard
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 8:18 am
- Location: Oklahoma City, OK
- Contact:
An ultra-competitive list would emphasis movement and magic over everything else. The objective of the list would be to dance around your opponent, denying him the ability to bring you into combat as you slowly whittle his army away.
Unfortunately, Strength 3 RBXs aren't enough, especially against high Toughness armies with good armor saves. Therefore you have to have a hammer component to your list as well. Here's a sample list of what I'd field.
Supreme Sorceress @ 400 Pts
General; Level 4 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Pegasus
Black Staff
Pendant of Khaeleth
Sorceress @ 192 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Steed
Lifetaker
Tome of Furion
5 Dark Riders @ 117 Pts
Musician; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour
Sorceress @ 197 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Steed
Power Stone
Seal of Ghrond
5 Dark Riders @ 131 Pts
Musician; Herald; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour;
Sorceress @ 197 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Steed
Darkstar Cloak
Dispel Scroll
5 Dark Riders @ 131 Pts
Herald; Musician; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour
10 Cold One Knights @ 335 Pts
Full Command; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield
Banner of Murder
Cold One Chariot @ 100 Pts
Cold One Chariot @ 100 Pts
War Hydra @ 175 Pts
War Hydra @ 175 Pts
Total Roster Cost: 2250
As you can see, the hammer component would be the large block of Cold One Knights, flanked by two chariots and two hydras. If at all possible, you would want to combine your charges to gang up on your opponent's largest/most expensive unit.
The object wouldn't be to minimize your opponent's chances against you...it would be to eliminate any chance at all against you.
Blackfel
Unfortunately, Strength 3 RBXs aren't enough, especially against high Toughness armies with good armor saves. Therefore you have to have a hammer component to your list as well. Here's a sample list of what I'd field.
Supreme Sorceress @ 400 Pts
General; Level 4 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Pegasus
Black Staff
Pendant of Khaeleth
Sorceress @ 192 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Steed
Lifetaker
Tome of Furion
5 Dark Riders @ 117 Pts
Musician; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour
Sorceress @ 197 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Steed
Power Stone
Seal of Ghrond
5 Dark Riders @ 131 Pts
Musician; Herald; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour;
Sorceress @ 197 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Steed
Darkstar Cloak
Dispel Scroll
5 Dark Riders @ 131 Pts
Herald; Musician; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour
10 Cold One Knights @ 335 Pts
Full Command; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield
Banner of Murder
Cold One Chariot @ 100 Pts
Cold One Chariot @ 100 Pts
War Hydra @ 175 Pts
War Hydra @ 175 Pts
Total Roster Cost: 2250
As you can see, the hammer component would be the large block of Cold One Knights, flanked by two chariots and two hydras. If at all possible, you would want to combine your charges to gang up on your opponent's largest/most expensive unit.
The object wouldn't be to minimize your opponent's chances against you...it would be to eliminate any chance at all against you.
Blackfel
There is one rule, above all others, for being a man. Whatever comes, face it on your feet.
- Nightblade183
- Assassin
- Posts: 518
- Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:45 am
- Location: Rockin' Rogers, MN
- Contact:
Do you guys think a Heavy Beast List or a Heavy Magic List is more competitive, or maybe somewhere in between. I like the idea of a Dragon Sorceress and a Lvl 2 sniper with Lifetaker in a unit of shades. With a COK unit with a BSB this may be one of our strongest builds as far as characters go. I guess the section on WAAC Armies is probably something I should do after everyone has had more time to playtest list ideas with the new book. I think I'll have to finish my section on WAAC Armies after most of D.R.A.I.C.H. is already written, that way armies of the druchii have been fully playtested and my info will be more accurate.
...__i___
...))))) r
.\OOOOO/
~~~~~~~~~
We can't possibly be the only people on this forum who love plundering and pillaging can we? Come join the Brotherhood of The Coast, and raid til your heart's content.
Beeing ilitterit makes dis forem stewpid
8th Edition Game Tally
W/L/D
2/1/1
...))))) r
.\OOOOO/
~~~~~~~~~
We can't possibly be the only people on this forum who love plundering and pillaging can we? Come join the Brotherhood of The Coast, and raid til your heart's content.
Beeing ilitterit makes dis forem stewpid
8th Edition Game Tally
W/L/D
2/1/1
- Dyvim tvar
- Lord of the Dragon Caves
- Posts: 8372
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:34 pm
- Location: The Dragon Caves of the Underway (Indianapolis IN)
- Contact:
Here's the thing -- there are lots of ways to make an ultra-competivie army now, and they all overlap with other "themes" listed in the D.R.A.I.C.H.
For example, lists with heavy-magic, lots of cavalry, beasts, and Black Guard lists can all be ultra-competitive. Just dump the "ultra-competive" category.
For example, lists with heavy-magic, lots of cavalry, beasts, and Black Guard lists can all be ultra-competitive. Just dump the "ultra-competive" category.
Truly These are the End Times ...
- Nightblade183
- Assassin
- Posts: 518
- Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:45 am
- Location: Rockin' Rogers, MN
- Contact:
Sounds good, I was considering this as there are plenty of ways to now build a competitive build.
...__i___
...))))) r
.\OOOOO/
~~~~~~~~~
We can't possibly be the only people on this forum who love plundering and pillaging can we? Come join the Brotherhood of The Coast, and raid til your heart's content.
Beeing ilitterit makes dis forem stewpid
8th Edition Game Tally
W/L/D
2/1/1
...))))) r
.\OOOOO/
~~~~~~~~~
We can't possibly be the only people on this forum who love plundering and pillaging can we? Come join the Brotherhood of The Coast, and raid til your heart's content.
Beeing ilitterit makes dis forem stewpid
8th Edition Game Tally
W/L/D
2/1/1
-
- Slave (off the Altar)
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:46 am
- Location: USA
-
- Shade
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 3:55 am
An ultra competetive dark elf list most likely has the absolute fewest elves possible. I would imagine it looks like this
Dragonlord at 560ish
manticore bsb at 350ish
or
Peggy captain and scroll caddy at 350ish
3x5DR at 351
3*5 Harpies at 165
4 chariots at 400
2 hydra at 350
2176 points-
some room to spare.
Dragonlord at 560ish
manticore bsb at 350ish
or
Peggy captain and scroll caddy at 350ish
3x5DR at 351
3*5 Harpies at 165
4 chariots at 400
2 hydra at 350
2176 points-
some room to spare.
I'm with Thomus here, that seems like its the most effective to me. You get HUGE hitting power out of the chariots, hydrae, and dragon. Then, you have 6 units of fast annoyances to play with the enemy's plan, so it (I would imagine) could be super competative.
Also, as many people have mentioned, BG with the ASF banner in 6 or 7 wide are going to be turning up in a lot of tournament armies with success
Also, as many people have mentioned, BG with the ASF banner in 6 or 7 wide are going to be turning up in a lot of tournament armies with success
Yeah something like this is probebly what one should look at, even if I probebly would run a CoK unit, shades with great weapons, possibly some crossbow elves or more harpies insted of the chariots, stupid chariots just aint my cup of teaThomus Darkblade wrote:An ultra competetive dark elf list most likely has the absolute fewest elves possible. I would imagine it looks like this
Dragonlord at 560ish
manticore bsb at 350ish
or
Peggy captain and scroll caddy at 350ish
3x5DR at 351
3*5 Harpies at 165
4 chariots at 400
2 hydra at 350
2176 points-
some room to spare.
SWFBR- Swedish Warhammer Tournament Calendar, Ranking and Forum
- [llct]kain
- Assassin
- Posts: 587
- Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:54 am
- Location: Speyer (ex Heidelberg)
On to the theory, WAAC list will likely include the dragon crutch, two hyrdae, lots of harpies, shades and dark riders to play no touch and possibly just a manticore rider as the other hero with RoH, speed and aggression for magic defense.
I had a go with such a list the weekend and is impressive - massacered a Thorek list in turn 3. But I also got creamed from a nurgle list. The GuO just casted the pox on his first turn (he went first) on the master on the manti with the RoH. Did not role a double and the master exploded in a ball of green decay... Rest of the game was no fun at all. The lesson for me was that a list with decent magic where you could not hunt the mages (hunting a GuO *g*) is very (or too) hard for the no-magic-defense list.
For the competetive list - I think the rules from 6th are still true. A balanced list will be yours..