How to make an Ultra-Competitive Army?

Nightblade183 · Post by **Nightblade183** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:01 am

I an currently constructing the Hall of Fame for D.R.A.I.C.H. It is a thread dedicated as a resource that we can go to best construct different army builds and I attempt to explain how to make a particular build successful. I am currently working on the Win At All Costs Army or Ultra-Competitive Cheese. So far it looks like a WAAC builds have a lot of magic, 2 hydras, harpies and DRs, but I'd like some more imput on how to build an Ultra-Competitive Army. This is where you guys come in. I am relying on the Drucii community to help me with this and other army builds in the near future. Please post your input below. Thanks! - Nighty and the D.R.A.I.C.H. Team

Mordru · Post by **Mordru** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:23 am

The book is so new all we have at this point is theory on an ultra competitive army. After we get some battle reports and tournament debriefs in from the field your project will pick up steam.

On to the theory, WAAC list will likely include the dragon crutch, two hyrdae, lots of harpies, shades and dark riders to play no touch and possibly just a manticore rider as the other hero with RoH, speed and aggression for magic defense.

Aginor26 · Post by **Aginor26** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:38 am

When making an army i generally try to come up with a balanced concept based on each phase of the game by fielding a good selection of troops to fill each roll. My rubric generally follows 2 units of fast cav, 50+ shots per turn, 7+ pd/ 5+dd and at least 1 scroll with combat units varying greatly between lists. Also, i find my rate of success falls greatly if i take much more than 700pts in heroes for a 2k game. Granted this can change if you use big mounts, but i have no intention of fielding dragons.
Its also a good idea to assign a specific task to each of your units so they dont just fly around randomly. And i have had great results with fielding in different formations depending on list style (i think there is a great formation article in the tactics hall of fame.)
I know this doesnt throw much into the "super competitive" category but its a good base for coming up with decent lists that will perform well against most armies. In the end its just really important to conceptualize and try to understand exactly how your army will function when its on the table- whether it be focused on combat, magic etc.

*edit* I feel its important that i mention that i have not played with a 7th ed list yet, so i am reluctant to give specific advice based on something i am virtually unpracticed in.

John silver · Post by **John silver** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:59 am

Hi, All
Then I create my army, I try to decide what kind of army I want to get. I think that master of all - master of nothing, so try to concentrate my army on surpass opponents in 2-3 phases, and try to control my opponents army in other phases. Also then I decide what unit's include in my army I try to get good unit flexibility and flexible unit combination, so if enemy kill one or more of my unit's other my unit's still work good and I can re coordinate my force.

Zeth · Post by **Zeth** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:53 am

Our magic is no where close to 'ultra competitive.'

Our powerful lists are likely to look much like Mordu suggested.
I'm not convinced the dragon is actually going to be in our top tier lists but the rest looks pretty much right. Dual Hydras or a some ACR special choices are a bit of a toss up at the moment as well, hydras will look stronger the more regen that gets added to the game though.

Blackfel · Post by **Blackfel** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:30 am

An ultra-competitive list would emphasis movement and magic over everything else. The objective of the list would be to dance around your opponent, denying him the ability to bring you into combat as you slowly whittle his army away.

Unfortunately, Strength 3 RBXs aren't enough, especially against high Toughness armies with good armor saves. Therefore you have to have a hammer component to your list as well. Here's a sample list of what I'd field.

Supreme Sorceress @ 400 Pts
General; Level 4 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Pegasus
Black Staff
Pendant of Khaeleth

Sorceress @ 192 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Steed
Lifetaker
Tome of Furion

5 Dark Riders @ 117 Pts
Musician; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour

Sorceress @ 197 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Steed
Power Stone
Seal of Ghrond

5 Dark Riders @ 131 Pts
Musician; Herald; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour;

Sorceress @ 197 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dark Steed
Darkstar Cloak
Dispel Scroll

5 Dark Riders @ 131 Pts
Herald; Musician; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour

10 Cold One Knights @ 335 Pts
Full Command; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield
Banner of Murder

Cold One Chariot @ 100 Pts

Cold One Chariot @ 100 Pts

War Hydra @ 175 Pts

War Hydra @ 175 Pts

Total Roster Cost: 2250

As you can see, the hammer component would be the large block of Cold One Knights, flanked by two chariots and two hydras. If at all possible, you would want to combine your charges to gang up on your opponent's largest/most expensive unit.

The object wouldn't be to minimize your opponent's chances against you...it would be to eliminate any chance at all against you.

Blackfel

Lakissov · Post by **Lakissov** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:50 pm

I agree completely with mordru - this seems like the most powerful DE build. Only, I'd add that the list might as well include a unit of 6-7 COK with hydra banner BSB and warbanner and 1-2 units of BG (one definitely with ASF banner and champion with S5 AP weapon)

Nightblade183 · Post by **Nightblade183** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:20 pm

Do you guys think a Heavy Beast List or a Heavy Magic List is more competitive, or maybe somewhere in between. I like the idea of a Dragon Sorceress and a Lvl 2 sniper with Lifetaker in a unit of shades. With a COK unit with a BSB this may be one of our strongest builds as far as characters go. I guess the section on WAAC Armies is probably something I should do after everyone has had more time to playtest list ideas with the new book. I think I'll have to finish my section on WAAC Armies after most of D.R.A.I.C.H. is already written, that way armies of the druchii have been fully playtested and my info will be more accurate.

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:27 pm

Here's the thing -- there are lots of ways to make an ultra-competivie army now, and they all overlap with other "themes" listed in the D.R.A.I.C.H.

For example, lists with heavy-magic, lots of cavalry, beasts, and Black Guard lists can all be ultra-competitive. Just dump the "ultra-competive" category.

Nightblade183 · Post by **Nightblade183** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:36 pm

Sounds good, I was considering this as there are plenty of ways to now build a competitive build.

Cryonicleech · Post by **Cryonicleech** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:43 pm

I'm really surprised that the black guard have gotten no love, I mean you have to love the fact that they can re-roll all failed to hits in every phase in combat and they fact that their champions can take magic items and they have two attacks a piece

Thomus darkblade · Post by **Thomus darkblade** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:15 am

An ultra competetive dark elf list most likely has the absolute fewest elves possible. I would imagine it looks like this

Dragonlord at 560ish

manticore bsb at 350ish
or
Peggy captain and scroll caddy at 350ish

3x5DR at 351
3*5 Harpies at 165

4 chariots at 400

2 hydra at 350

2176 points-

some room to spare.

Saedron · Post by **Saedron** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:48 am

I'm with Thomus here, that seems like its the most effective to me. You get HUGE hitting power out of the chariots, hydrae, and dragon. Then, you have 6 units of fast annoyances to play with the enemy's plan, so it (I would imagine) could be super competative.

Also, as many people have mentioned, BG with the ASF banner in 6 or 7 wide are going to be turning up in a lot of tournament armies with success

Falahk · Post by **Falahk** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:44 am

Thomus Darkblade wrote:An ultra competetive dark elf list most likely has the absolute fewest elves possible. I would imagine it looks like this

Dragonlord at 560ish

manticore bsb at 350ish
or
Peggy captain and scroll caddy at 350ish

3x5DR at 351
3*5 Harpies at 165

4 chariots at 400

2 hydra at 350

2176 points-

some room to spare.

Yeah something like this is probebly what one should look at, even if I probebly would run a CoK unit, shades with great weapons, possibly some crossbow elves or more harpies insted of the chariots, stupid chariots just aint my cup of tea

[llct]kain · Post by **[llct]kain** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:56 pm

On to the theory, WAAC list will likely include the dragon crutch, two hyrdae, lots of harpies, shades and dark riders to play no touch and possibly just a manticore rider as the other hero with RoH, speed and aggression for magic defense.

I had a go with such a list the weekend and is impressive - massacered a Thorek list in turn 3. But I also got creamed from a nurgle list. The GuO just casted the pox on his first turn (he went first) on the master on the manti with the RoH. Did not role a double and the master exploded in a ball of green decay... Rest of the game was no fun at all. The lesson for me was that a list with decent magic where you could not hunt the mages (hunting a GuO *g*) is very (or too) hard for the no-magic-defense list.

For the competetive list - I think the rules from 6th are still true. A balanced list will be yours..

Lakissov · Post by **Lakissov** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:57 pm

hence the lesson that your most important targets should be protected with The Ring