The art of building an army

[Whobetta]

I am not sure whether this is the right forum, but I am having problems with creating an army list for 3,000 points. it will be to play my friend who will be using High Elves. I have a buttload of models and could get 4-5k points easy.

Essentially I was hoping to get some "generalities" on what might be the best usage of points when it comes to a big list. more in characters or core etc...

I started out with a list and before I knew it I had 1700 points in Heroes and that is with out special chars or Assassins. I didn't think I could win with only 1300 of normal troops...

so this leads me to ask, what is the best ratio of heroes to units and model counts etc...

I love hordes and wouldn't mind "trying" going all out with 3+ units of warriors and core guys but well id rather not "try" something and get wasted in a big game.

I liked my hero set up but it was obviously EXPENSIVE...

DreadLord
Manticore
Armor of ES
Ring of Darkness
DeathPiercer
SDC
Shield
Rxb
=459

Supreme Sorc
lvl 4 upgrage
+ Dragon
Pendant of Kaeleth
Focus Familiar
Lifetaker
=670

Death Hag
Cauldron
=200

Sorc
Lvl 2 updgrade
Sacrificial Dagger
Dispell Scroll
185

lastly is a Master/Dhag (can't decide if i want ASF Exec's) or PeggyNoble. that = ~185

that is 1700... ugh where to go from there?

thanks and sorry

[Borog]

Make a unit of ASF WE instead, better against HE.
But this should be in the armylist forum I think.

[Tigtoad]

A personal note? 1700 points of characters is way too many for 3000 point game. You won't have elves.

Our characters are good, but cost a lot for what they do. Our troops are a good value and I can't get enough.

Go with one of the two monsters... cut the other. If you go with the dragon mage, take 2 or even 3 other mages for characters. If you go with the manticore/master, maybe upgrade him to a dragon lord and take a scroll caddy and maybe a bsb. You could even take a dreadlord with dragon and master on manticore and a scroll caddy and still come in under 1100 points.

I'd prefer to keep it under 1000 even if possible. You'll want the extra troops in a game that size. One of the first mistakes people make at 3k is to feel like they have to use all 6 characters. I think its a bad plan, personally... unless you go with unkillable characters and a victory point denial list.. which I don't find satisfying to play.

[Whobetta]

hey thanks for the thoughts... just a question, as I am not a real experienced player, what exactly is a victory point denial type of army?

how do you deny them VP's? we will most likely be playing straight up annihilation, so does that mean units with superior movement who stat out of combat and out of their charge arcs?

thanks... I'll see about changing everything up. I love monsters and wanted to have a cauldron. figured 1 lvl 4 wouldn't be enough for a magic phase so...

could cut the master/bsb though easily

[Druchii77]

I would personally drop the dragon for a peg. That is a simple solution that will drop your points. I, of course, am in the anti dragon mage camp. You could also give BSB to your Hag and you would end up not needing another character.

[Faerthurir]

I would personally drop the dragon for a peg. That is a simple solution that will drop your points. I, of course, am in the anti dragon mage camp. You could also give BSB to your Hag and you would end up not needing another character.

i'm sort of in agreement with ya there! at least give the dragon to your dreadlord and put the sorceress on a pegasus. you'll save some points that way. putting a squishy sorceress on a rock-hard dragon is a bit of a waste IMO...

what i always do when making army lists is to pick what i want in troops first, leaving about a third of the points for the characters. that way you can see what your army would look like, and what you're dropping for the character you're about to choose. i find it's really helpful to see whether it's worth it or not.

[Dreadlord taylindril]

I usally spend a quarter of my point on character the rist on units.
On special uints I also would spend just over a quarter.