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How to build a list around Corsairs? 
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Slave (off the Altar)
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Hello all, I'm Intrepid Adventurer. I'm relatively new here! I've been at Warhammer for several years, mostly playing 40k. I also have some High Elves lying around I play with now and then. They, however, pose me with a big problem: I seriously dislike most of the models and since GW has neglected to update them, I've decided to switch to their darker cousins.

I am completely in love with the new Corsairs and I've e-bayed my first two boxes of them. What I would like to ask of you is to help me come up with a 1000 pts list centered on the Corsairs. A list I can focus on as my first project for this army. I am, of course, completely inexperienced with DE. If at all possible, I'd like it to be somewhat competitive. I don't mind losing, but I do enjoy giving my friends a whooping, haha.

Thanks for any help you're able to give me, in advance.

Kind regards,

IA


Last edited by Intrepid adventurer on Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:40 pm
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Brolock
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First off, welcome to Druchii.net. I might suggest that you take a stroll through both this forum (Army Lists) and the Tactics Forum. Those two should give you some good ideas that might help you form an army list that suits you. After that, you should come up with a list that you think you like, and then we can help you tweak and adjust you. That's usually easier than us just coming up with a list for you.

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Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:22 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Welcome to d-net! There's a lot of good stuff here, so poke around and there'll be a lot to help. I don't use Corsairs, so I can't help really. Might want to edit your subject to something like "how to build a list around corsairs". I think it would get the right people to respond.


Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:11 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)
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I'll do what you guys mentioned! Thanks for the advice. I changed the title according to your suggestion, Drek!

Any suggestions for a list are still welcome, though!


Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:09 pm
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Beastmaster
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Do you mean to field a typical raider force, or just corsairs?

Corsair raider forces are quite heavy on corsairs, DR an Reaper bolt throwers. Maybe take a master with the horsemen for some hitting power?

This makes a somewhat mobile, but not very powerful force. But the bolt throwers can deal with high T enemies. The DR can get in flank attacks and the corsairs provide CR.

I have 20 corsairs with FC and 2hw. I also have 10 with RhB, but these are not that effective except maybe against HE with an assassin.


Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:19 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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I love the potential of a corsair theme. I haven't found much use for larger units of corsairs. I'm a big fan of using them MSU. If you're thinking a corsair force, then go with at least 30.

3-4 units of 10 with musicians is the way I would begin. Then support them with a couple of units of repeater xbows, some bolt throwers, a hydra (tamed seamonter), some dark riders and shades, and voila... raiding force.

Gameplay wise, play it like a raider force, Flee from every charge that makes sense, then countercharge with the appropriate unit. Few things want to fight corsairs w/ xhw in the flank.


Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:35 pm
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Corsair
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Corsair Handbows can be fun (see the thread).
I like having one such unit to tease the opponent.

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Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:07 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)
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Not sure I want to do MSU, I personally like a bit of staying power. "Then why are you doing Corsairs?" Because of the models, darn it!

I personally thinking something like... a captain, a sorceress, two units of 18 Corsairs, some CoKs, unit of Black Guard, some DRs, RBXs and a bolt thrower. I don't have the book yet, however, so I can't really work out how much points this would cost. Or whether it'd be a viable list at all!


Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:49 am
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Corsair
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Intrepid Adventurer wrote:
a captain, a sorceress, two units of 18 Corsairs, some CoKs, unit of Black Guard, some DRs, RBXs and a bolt thrower.
Sure it'd be a viable list.

You did not mentions how many pts you were aiming at.
I assume you start around 1000pts and progressively you will add around 1000 or 2000 pts a year.

In the wish list you give, be aware the sorceress is a mere scroll caddy unless you're playing very small games.
You will have trouble to overcome usual magic defense unless you take roughly 1 sorceress per 500pts.

The captain, is it Lokhir or a regular one?
Lokhir seems to me a good bargain when starting a corsair army up to 1500pts:
he is worth his pts and the pts/€ makes it a good investment.
Rather than among the frenzied corsair, I see him well with the BG.

For a regular master, it could be nice footed or on a steed in Corsairs or BG but I would rather have an assassin.
You can take many assassins: they fit the fluff (p.61 of the army book) and they are really, really good inside any footed unit.
Alternatively, the Master on CO could well go with the COK. It fits less the corsair warband fluff, however.

Corsairs units have a reputation to be good but not overwhelmy cheesy.
The two obvious banneer are the SSS for frenziness and the murder one for AP. The captain would rather go with the AP one. Both are good to have in 18 strong units.

As I mention previously, handbow corsairs are really fun and fluffy in a small unit of 10: you rush forward in front of you main line (protecting them from shooting and avoiding unwanted frenziness charges), you tease the enemy, they charge you stand and shoot, if you loose combat, you don't care for such a small unit.

MXB are an excellent unit. Do not hesitate to give them all a shield. However, keep the unit 10 strong with just musician. 2 such units are excellent.
Then they are easy to place, they shoot as much as they can, their shield makes them more resilient to shooting and in the end of the game, they are able to participate efficiently in melees as supporting unit.

The RBT is nice. Make it a pair and it becomes outstanding.

DR are really, really useful. So are harpies (you did not mention them). You'll never have too many of either.

COK and/or BG?
Both may be too many.
If the bulk of your army is made of corsairs, then COK and BG are not going to be the big central unit.

BG being footed will keep the same pace than everybody else. 10 "naked" BG are a small unit that will draw attention and allow the corsairs to win the game.
20 BG fully equipped make the big, central unit and the corsairs become a mere complement.

COK has a very different rythm than the rest of the army. Sometimes they get stupid and slow down, most of the time they are slightly quicker. Usually they are 5 or 6 wide, i.e. wider than a 5-front infantry unit, but much less deep.
In melee, they are able to win on their own, especially if fitted with Hydra banneer.
However, they are very expansive.


Overall, it seem that you must make some choices.
If the bulk of your army is a pair of big corsair units (as I understand), then you need to field many small unit around them to complement and protect them.
Those smaller units could be as you choose:
- quick DR and/or harpies, to chase opponent's machines and hamper their movement
- missile shooters MXB and RBT
- RHB corsairs for teasing
- BG and COK for a mini-hammer
- 2/3 sorceresses and 2/3 assassins to enhance your units.
I'd advise you to take a bit of all of these, to vary from one game to the next and see what fits you best.

When your army will grow bigger (>2k), you will probably augment the non-corsair part of it. Then the corsairs will remain a good complement to whatever you have as bulk.

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Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:05 pm
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Warrior

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really don't see black guard fitting the theme of a raiding force, they are the witch kings bodyguard, his personal hammer used to enforce his divine will...

not to be sent out in penny packets with raider captains intent on their own glory!


Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:48 am
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Hydra Lord

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a nice sample 1250 points that fits within the corsair theme. If my points are off, its because I'm doing this from memory.


Master, sword of might, pendent of khaleth dark steed, heavy armor, shield, sdc (152?)

Sorceress, level 2, lifetaker, tome of furion, steed (192)

20 corsairs, full command, frenzy banner (250)
20 corsairs, full command, armor piercing banner (250)
5 dark riders, xbows (110)

5 shades, additional hand weapon (85)
(use corsairs with handbow/sword)

2 reaper crossbow (use corsair members as crew) (200)


Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:05 am
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Slave (off the Altar)
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Whoa Calisson, thanks for the huge reply! A great help. Yes, 1000 pts was my initial goal. 1250 is fine as well, that's the size I usually play with my HE (as I don't have a larger force atm).

Yes, I'll admit the Black Guard are a little out of place, but I like them and I hear they're good, haha. I thought they'd provide the necessary staying power.

However, I must admit I really like the list TigToad presented. Really raid-ish and fluffy! I'm wondering about the lone master on a steed, though. Won't he be picked off? My only other remark would be that the list lacks proper flanking units. Or am I seeing it wrong now?


Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:46 pm
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Warrior

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this is what I'm thinking itsa bit corsairish

Level 4 High Sorceress @ 670 Pts
Black Staff
Pendant of Khaeleth
Black Dragon

Master @ 141 Pts (general)
Repeater Crossbow; Sea Dragon Cloak HA Shield;
Whip of Agony
on cold one

Level 2 Sorceress @ 175 Pts
Dispel Scroll
Tome of Furion

10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 100 Pts

10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 100 Pts

10 Black Ark Corsairs, Handbow @ 100 Pts

18 Black Ark Corsairs @ 230 Pts
Full command
Sea Serpent Standard

5 Harpies @ 55 Pts

5 Harpies @ 55 Pts

Cold One Chariot @ 100 Pts

Cold One Chariot @ 100 Pts

6 Cold One Knights @ 226 Pts
Full command
Banner of Hag Graef

Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100 Pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100 Pts

2252

8+ casting
5 dispell

lots of shooting, lots of magic and a bit of hitting power, with stupidity added... Banner of Hag Graef is on the cold ones to help out in case of a really bad stupid check


Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:07 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:33 pm
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Something like this could be interesting

Dark Elf army - Total: 1000pts

1 Master - additional hand weapon, light armour, sea dragon cloak, Ring of Hotek,
Total unit cost 115pts

2 Assassin - Rune of Khaine,
Total unit cost 119pts

3 Assassin - Rune of Khaine,
Total unit cost 119pts

4 Black Ark Corsairs x18 -
Total unit cost 180pts

5 Black Ark Corsairs x18 -
Total unit cost 180pts

6 Dark Riders x5 musician,
Total unit cost 92pts

7 Harpies x5 -
Total unit cost 55pts

8 Harpies x5 -
Total unit cost 55pts

9 Shades x5 additional hand weapon,
Total unit cost 85pts

The assassins goes into the corsair units but watch out for casters, the ring of hotek is for a bit of magic resistance.


Last edited by Bele on Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:36 am
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Quote:
10 pts/model

Posting specific costs are against the forum rules, please edit it so that you only show the total cost.

Quote:
light armor, sea dragon cloak, additional hand weapon

There is no need to post equipment that are not upgrades.

Quote:
a captain, a sorceress, two units of 18 Corsairs, some CoKs, unit of Black Guard, some DRs, RBXs and a bolt thrower. I don't have the book yet, however, so I can't really work out how much points this would cost. Or whether it'd be a viable list at all!

It does sound like a very viable list, but the role etc of the CoK's and black guard needs to be conciderd, and they could be replaced with something else (chariots for example)

You do have reasonable staying power with your two units of 18 corsairs, epsecilaly if you include a bsb in one of them. (e.g. if you want him to fit the team, you could go with: master, BSB, whip of agony, armour of darkness and ofcource a SDC, just for the looks ;) ).

Some harpies is always a great option though.

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Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:40 am
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Slave (off the Altar)
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I haven't mentioned harpies yet, because I don't like the models or the fluff. I wouldn't mind getting a Hydra some time, but apart from that it's 'Elves only' for me.

The way I used to play my High Elves was to pair up units. So in the list I first mentioned, the CoK and one Corsair unit would attack together, while the other Corsair unit would assist the Black Guard. The assisting unit goes for the flank charges, of course. RBX units and the Reaper are fire support, the DR are in, because every says they rock, haha. .

In the list TigToad mentioned, perhaps the RBX units could provide the 'flanking' roles. So could the Shades.

Am I thinking in the right direction?


Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:59 am
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Executioner

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If you're not going to use harpies, you'll definitely want Dark Riders and Shades in the list.

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Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:32 am
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Hydra Lord

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The master on a steed would go in a unit.. either one of the corsair units (its okay if he's on a horse in a unit and adds +1 armor and another str 3 attack) or in the dark riders if your opponent does not have a lot of shooting.

Intrepid Adventurer wrote:
Whoa Calisson, thanks for the huge reply! A great help. Yes, 1000 pts was my initial goal. 1250 is fine as well, that's the size I usually play with my HE (as I don't have a larger force atm).

Yes, I'll admit the Black Guard are a little out of place, but I like them and I hear they're good, haha. I thought they'd provide the necessary staying power.

However, I must admit I really like the list TigToad presented. Really raid-ish and fluffy! I'm wondering about the lone master on a steed, though. Won't he be picked off? My only other remark would be that the list lacks proper flanking units. Or am I seeing it wrong now?


Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:44 pm
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Hydra Lord

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I had actually suggested reaper bolt throwers, not repeater crossbowmen... but you could use them as crossbowmen.. i just thought it was less fluffy. (afterall, the bolt throwers were originally designed to be the weapons on the side of our black arcs for clearing decks).

Harpies are, possibly, the best unit in our army for the points... but I put the dark rider unit and the shades in there because I felt it fit what you wanted better.

I personally use 4 units of harpies in 2250 and would probably drop a bolt thrower and a corsair and put two units of harpies in this list.. but they are expensive in $$.

Intrepid Adventurer wrote:
I haven't mentioned harpies yet, because I don't like the models or the fluff. I wouldn't mind getting a Hydra some time, but apart from that it's 'Elves only' for me.

The way I used to play my High Elves was to pair up units. So in the list I first mentioned, the CoK and one Corsair unit would attack together, while the other Corsair unit would assist the Black Guard. The assisting unit goes for the flank charges, of course. RBX units and the Reaper are fire support, the DR are in, because every says they rock, haha. .

In the list TigToad mentioned, perhaps the RBX units could provide the 'flanking' roles. So could the Shades.

Am I thinking in the right direction?


Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:48 pm
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