Narrowing down DE color scheme (Update 01/13/09)

Shadowd1 · Post by **Shadowd1** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:53 pm

I did a test of the fully gray scheme on a warior works great .

Rafapolit · Post by **Rafapolit** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:54 pm

Thanks once more friends... the minis have just arrived, I'm looking into the different assembly options as I write this!

Shadowd1, would you care to share a picture of the finished model? I would love an actual application as it differs greatly from photoshopped images!

Thanks, I'll post more later.

Rafa.

Rafapolit · Post by **Rafapolit** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:33 am

Friends, I had a quick question: is it customary for the champion of a crossbow warrior unit to have a regular sword as in the GW picture? Or do you guys prefer and all-crossbow approach?

Thanks,
Rafa.

Mnesthius · Post by **Mnesthius** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:47 am

I have my champion kitted with sword, shield and crossbow.

Kinda like this:

Just shave off the spikes on the vambraces (stuff on forearms) and glue shield on.

Its rather simple, and if I do another unit of crossbowmen if i get a battalion for christmas, I'd probably re-position the arm/hand so he's pointing the way they're meant to be shooting. Either that or have the sword in a 'raise weapons' position like the male reaper bolt thrower crew.

On an aside, it might not be very useful to have a champion, how are you going to field the crossbowmen?

Rafapolit · Post by **Rafapolit** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:26 am

Thanks a lot for the samples Mnesthius. Great idea... I'll go for that without the shield (as I didn't get any on my battalion box

) and I also would like to have the champion a bit more "fearless" without a shield.

As to how to field them

I have no idea!

I have not yet played a single battle with the DE. I was looking though to have, model wise, options for full command in every unit. Since we are starting (the entire community), I think there would be leniency towards fielding models that don't fully represent your actual construction (ie. Fielding a champion-like model but explaining there is no champion on the unit).

I don't know... what do you think? I have 16 crossbowmen from the Battalion. What is the most usual fielding of crossbows for DE?

Thanks a lot!
Rafa.

Mnesthius · Post by **Mnesthius** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:09 am

I'll let you in on a little secret (that everyone else will know too

) I have never played a game either! because I'm waiting for a fully painted army to do so with. I have just browsed the tactics forum over and over! Apparently 10 with musician and shields is good.
I recommend that you look over in the druchii army list for something that you'd like to collect and build, and work with that untill you've played a game with it.

Back on topic:
You can just tell your shop / Gamesworkshop that you didn't get shields and they'll happily send you some. (Well... they should!) If they're nasty about it then you can simply mail order one sprue of 4 and use green stuff to make moulds for it. (I haven't tried this yet, but I think if you lubricate the surface with vaseline or some kind of oil it shouldn't stick (too much

)

And to answer your previous question: I like N3. It has a bit of variation that you can play with and carry through to your other units.

Rafapolit · Post by **Rafapolit** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:17 am

Friends,

I take my hat off and bow to some of the painting skills exhibited in some of the works of this forum. One thing is to watch the pictures and criticize, another thing is to paint the mini!

I have spent today about 10 hours painting one single Warrior. I am willing to concede that determining the correct combination of colors may have taken a few minutes, but all together, I spent a ridiculous amount of time painting this figure.

I started with feet, body and head glued together and both arms not glued yet. I then glued them together and painted some more.

I wanted to ask a few questions, if you may be so kind:
- How do you paint to avoid scraping already placed paint when handling the mini? I must have painted the bottom of the skirt and the top of the head about 100 times! On bits like the hands and weapons, it's even more tricky!
- How do you glue the arms without taking the paint off with your hands while applying pressure?
- How do you accomplish to pain an entire army, when a single mini takes 10 hours!?

Again, my most sincere respects to some of the flagship painters in this forum.

So, no more photoshoping, this is the real deal! I tried the original idea: black armor, yellow clothing, red ornaments. It may work against more or less bright backgrounds. Against dark backgrounds, it IS a bit dark, but the clothing may just be enough to make the look compelling. What do you think?

All critics, comments and suggestions are welcome! This is my first WHFB mini (well, I did a couple of Chaos Warriors about a year ago), but I have painted five or six D&D minis before, so be kind, but please be critic, its the only way I may improve!

Oh! The base is not yet done, no work at all (well, duh!

) but I will make some work on it tomorrow.

Thanks a lot for any future feedback and previous help on the color scheme!
Rafa.

Izirath · Post by **Izirath** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:27 am

It looks really nice man, just go for it! A really nice first time mini.

Sarcon · Post by **Sarcon** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:56 am

the only comment I have is to make the skin a bit more pale, because now it's almost the same as the ywllow clothing. Painting figures is all about having the right colour balance on your mini.

Also, I do not know how you painted the yellow, but I suggest you use Ianden Darksun for that, since it has a real easy to coverage (painting yellow is quite hard for starters). Also, my compliments on the subtile highlights on the red, and painting the teeth.

But let me get this straight, you paint all parts seperately before assembling the model? I suggest that the next model you paint will be fully assembled before priming, and have a go at that. Here's my rule in painting: What you don't see is what you don't have to paint!

But the scheme works, hope my reply has been some help.

Seralkith · Post by **Seralkith** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:26 am

That's nice and clean there Rafa!

Don't worry about the speed it'll come.

You should assemble the minis before painting. This will keep the paint on by you not having to handle all of the recently painted bits and will stop you from detailing unseen regions. When you paint you should try to do 5 at a time, allow the paint on the last one to dry while you are still working. It's much more efficient when you are doing a regiment, and you feel like you got something done in the end.

Mnesthius · Post by **Mnesthius** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:51 am

That looks really nice. I especially like the highlighting on the breastplate. Is that metallic paint or just grey highlights? Looks to me like the latter. (If you've only ever painted 5 - 6 minis before, thats a fantastic job! It took me 20+ minis and a 3 year break to get to where I am now - table top and average

)

I think your paint comes off simply because you're not giving them time to dry - it comes with the way you paint. If you paint one mini at a time, the paint will take a while to dry, and if you move on to another area right away - which one tends to do if one is only painting that one mini - then the painted areas you touch will still be wet.

I generally dry brush metallic bits first, then do skin. After that I paint the cloth areas and any details last of all.

I'd do your first regiment of crossbow warriors just like this - they look good! You can do more fancy stuff as you mature as a general and a painter.

@ Sarcon "Assembled before priming": really? I don't like to assemble completely, but only partially. Right arm torso legs and head as one set. Then right hand holding crossbow and shield as the other half. Painting these seperately lets me pay attention to any bits that I might not reach otherwise.

Last thing, a deeper shade in the recess might be better for the recesses of the cloak.

Sarcon · Post by **Sarcon** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:35 am

Mnesthius wrote:I don't like to assemble completely, but only partially. Right arm torso legs and head as one set. Then right hand holding crossbow and shield as the other half. Painting these seperately lets me pay attention to any bits that I might not reach otherwise.

Bit's you might not reach, and probably won't see either. What's the point of putting 6 highlights on a spot where you will glue a shield over anyways?

Don't paint what you can't see!

Amaya · Post by **Amaya** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:01 pm

Sarcon wrote:
Mnesthius wrote:I don't like to assemble completely, but only partially. Right arm torso legs and head as one set. Then right hand holding crossbow and shield as the other half. Painting these seperately lets me pay attention to any bits that I might not reach otherwise.

Bit's you might not reach, and probably won't see either. What's the point of putting 6 highlights on a spot where you will glue a shield over anyways?

Don't paint what you can't see!

Most people who take the time to do so much also take the time to fix in magnets, so that they can switch weapon options and what have you. Having said this, I think it is obvious that you can do a better paint job by splitting the mini into sections, simply because it is easyer to paint and you can pin the section in place using clipper under a back light or something.

In relation to the painted model; in all fairness a lot of the posts above offer tips in the form of personal opinions, yet they are being put across as absolute, which is simply just wrong. You can paint minis how you like. I have been painting them for years on end, yet I paint them one at a time, not 5 in a row as is suggested above. It is all about personal preference. Your not better because your painting five at a time, and your not worse if you decided to paint your whole army at the same time, you just do what you want.

I agree that the skin could be more pale, but the yellow is fine. Considering this is one of the few minis you have painted, it is excellent how it came out so neat.

Shadowd1 · Post by **Shadowd1** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:56 am

I am sorry but I currently have no method to take and post pics .
sorry .

Druchii_jesse · Post by **Druchii_jesse** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:00 am

Welli must say it saddens me that i consider your crosbowman better than the one i just did. But i shall impart part of my knowledge of forum trollage to you. If you want to paint a seperate part such as a arm heat up a needle and stab it into the where it will be glued over so you can paint it without touching it.

Just to clarify i didn't mean to sound like a dusche in the beginning statement was a complement.

Silverheimdall · Post by **Silverheimdall** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:27 am

That's pretty much the same color scheme as my own RxB - but I'Ve added a touch of Scaly Green (a darker teal) to the accessories of the model. Here's the lot of them: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21/Un ... nit1v2.jpg

- How do you paint to avoid scraping already placed paint when handling the mini? I must have painted the bottom of the skirt and the top of the head about 100 times! On bits like the hands and weapons, it's even more tricky!
- How do you glue the arms without taking the paint off with your hands while applying pressure?
- How do you accomplish to pain an entire army, when a single mini takes 10 hours!?

- Here's a trick: Paint pot you will not be using (for exemple: some blue colour, since you won't be needing em) and Blue Tac, stick your model's base on blue tac and stick it on top of the paint pot. Hold the paint pot while you paint - never have to touch the mini with your fingers

- Glue the entire model together before painting it, exceptions are accessories that will not hide the paintjob, such as Shields. Glue itself will remove paint very easily, so glue it, base it (just the sand anyway) and then prime it - now you're ready to paint it.

An exemple from my army: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21/Un ... /Malus.jpg
(The shields have blue tac holding em, cause I played the army in a friendly game at a GWShop - armies don't have to be painted to play em there)
It's much easier to have the ground (which I will paint, drybrush twice and Wash once) already there when you prime the model. And I always paint the base first, because it involves drybrushing which could easily ruin my paint job at the bottom of the model if I wait at the end.

- I've yet to figure that one out! Ugh.

Sarcon · Post by **Sarcon** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:59 am

I agree with Amaya's statement. My post above was to specify how I do my models, and how I think it is easier. That is all my personal opinion. In the end, it's all up to you about how you want to paint your models.

But do take my opinion in considiration! :lol:

Mnesthius · Post by **Mnesthius** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:47 am

Hey

How goes the painting? Hope it hasn't driven you crazy!

Just wanted to check up on the up and coming army.

All the things I say are from a personal perspective and by no means the word of god (I'm only an average table top painter). It's all about me

and how I like my models to look!

Good luck, and I hope you're having fun.

Rafapolit · Post by **Rafapolit** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:05 pm

Thanks very, very much friends for the compliments, comments, critiques and suggestions! Also, please, don't worry about statements, I always consider everything an opinion and not a stone-written fact, so feel free to state your own personal truths here, I'll always consider them valuable, but always consider them opinions nonetheless... thanks a lot!! It has been invaluable on my process, which goes much slower than anticipated (hope I can pick up some speed and time to do it)

Sorry for not having written back but I have been swarmed with work and had to stop my painting till now, so I didn't write cause I had nothing to further report of my experience.

So, as for the Assembled or non-Assembled painting discussion: For the sake of being able to play while painting the army, I have gone with the suggestion of assembling them and then painting them. Otherwise, I would have never started playing which, for me, is an important part of the hobby (it affects mildly the painting versatility, but nothing that an extra can take care of).

@Sarcon and Amaya
- I think you are right about the contrast of the skin, but, for the time being, I will aim for a deeper color cause I'm trying to have white-haired DE, so I'll need the contrast. I'll try it and see what turns out, but I like a burnt brown as the skin for now

, I'll post some pictures when I have my first 5 Executioners ready.

@Mnesthius
- Yes the highlights are just a dry-brushed gray, no metallic on the dark armor. I also liked the effect, hope I can repeat it frequently and a bit faster

Thanks again izirath, Sarcon, Seralkith, Mnesthius, Amaya, shadowd1, druchii_jesse and SilverHeimdall for the input.

So, here's my current state: have assembled 16 RXB, 10 Corsairs with HW and Handbow (the other 10 will be 2xHW yet to be assembled), 5 cold ones on their base (no riders yet), the Reaper Crossbow, Lokhir and 5 Executioners. Have base coated most of them (ridiculously as it may be, we were unable to find a suitable spray can so we are all basecoating manually!), have almost finished Lokhir and have almost finished the Executioners. The others have a stroke here and there to decide upon colors, balance, etc.

Here is a question I would like to share with you in the hopes I can find the answer: how do you weigh the importance vs. finish of a mini's paint job. Let me elaborate: I have been painting Lokhir... one can do what is done on the GW page and you dilute the importance of certain parts as everything is as important and as strong in the paint job. The result, IMHO, is a flashy but un-remarkable mini.

So how do you evaluate how much detail/punch to imbue into the different parts of the mini? I painted Lokhir and saw the mask is his trademark his one unique feature, but if I paint the "skirt" as golden, it takes from the mask... if I paint the clothes or the cloak to bright it takes from the mask. So I painted and repainted and erased and remade cause I kept thinking that the mask should stand out, and finally I made a version which is almost all mask. Here's the current Lokhir's paint job:

So... what do you recommend? Should I repaint the cloths the cloak, etc.? Or do you favor this one-focus-point approach? I can't seem to decide (and it takes a tremendous effort to do a trial and error approach here, not to mention the stacking paint).

Thanks a lot for any further comments/tricks on this matter, I always appreciate them and value them highly as I know it has taken some of you years to gather and years to master. Thanks again,

Rafa.

Kheel · Post by **Kheel** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:57 am

N3 looks exceptional.
Something about the clothes

N5 looks good, but N3 is what I would vote for.

Lonely shade · Post by **Lonely shade** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:23 am

I love the recurrent themes but changes in all the styles, and personally I would incorporate all 5 into my army. You show recurring red, yellow, and black themes, so if you are having a hard time deciding dictate a slightly different colour scheme to each unit type and say it is a nation-wide army (ie. Corsairs N3, Exes N1, BG N4, Warriors N2, Witch Elves N5...etc.) But that is just mho.

By the way, that is some incredible photoshoping, and pretty good painting as well (I'll say incredible when you can match GeOrc).

- Lonely

EDIT: @ Silver: I could have sworn I'd seen that colour scheme somewhere!