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Successful 2250 tourney list (minor changes) 
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Hydra Lord

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:13 pm
Posts: 261
I am finalizing the tournament list i plan to use in 2009. This list is now
6-1-1. It won the one small tournament it entered so far and has done well in pick up games since. My loss is to Vampire Counts and I have thought adding an assassin or more magic defense would help...but I'm not sure where to get the points from.

Opinions very much desired.


Dreadlord, dragon, crimson death, pendent, armor of ES, shield, sdc 564
Sorceress, 2x dispell scrolls 150

Characters: 714

4x 5 harpies 220
3x 10 crossbowmen, shields, 330
2x 5 dark riders, music, xbow 234

Core: 784

14 black guard, full command, ring of hotek, standard of hag grief 277
1 chariot 100

Special total 377

2 bolt throwers 200
1 hydra 175

rare: 375

TOtal: 2250

THe list is really solid from what I've seen so far. 3 crossbow units across my battle line with the black guard behind one unit (unless my opponent has no magic or shooting). Flanks are fast moving with my general usually with 2-3 units of harpies and the other flank having the remaining harpies and dark riders.

Hydra sets up across from whatever forest he can move through near the middle with the chariot running along that forests edge. They usually charge together.

Record so far:

Bretonnians 1-0-1 (1 massacre, 1 draw)
Daemons 1-0 (minor victory)
Dwarves 1-0 (massacre - killed to a dwarf by turn 5)
High Elves 2-0 (massacre and solid vs teclis)
Skaven 1-0 (massacre) (3 warlock/grey seer/16 jezzails/2 warp lightening)
Vampire Counts 0-1 (minor loss - couldn't keep the VC player from bringing back all his skeleton units - killed 3 vampires, but not general - dragon murderd the same wight champion 4 times though -- :(

I'm very vulnerable to high magic lists and want to find some tweaks to improve my defense.

Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:53 pm
Hydra Lord

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:13 pm
Posts: 261
Alright, let me ask a couple specific questions... I was able to masscre a VC player in my last game with this list, moving it to 7-1-1.

However, the discussion afterwords was can I cut a unit of crossbowmen. The discussion was either to replace a unit of crossbowmen with 6 shades with great weapons or a chariot and a crossbow for my lord on dragon.

Would either of these options make the list harder? Especially against daemons or vampires. Right now, the crossbowmen serve as close combat units to support the black guard for those blocks of enemy troops that survive crossing the field and don't get tied up by the hydra/dragon/chariot

Opinions still appreciated.


Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:11 pm
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8739
Location: Hag Graef
Your list seems very competitive indeed.
Could you develop about some unit's weaknesses, if any?
And how you tactically use your units?

I'll include your list into the D.R.A.I.C.H. as a source of inspiration for competitive players.

Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}

Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:52 pm
Purveyor of Pain
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:24 am
Posts: 1721
Location: Wherever the fight is
I think adding a chariot would make it more competitive. Personally, I would stick with it the way it is.

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Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:55 pm
Rending Star
Rending Star
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Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:10 am
Posts: 5030
Location: Germany
Well, the only way to get your magic defense to levels that can actually hinder the heavy casting armies (without hoping for doubles, that is, which doesn't quite work against Vampire Counts using only 1 dice for most spells ;)) you would have to drop the dragon. And that would make your army completely different.

I know of one army, BTW, that would completely and utterly destroy this list (Tzeentch Daemons with 3+ Herolds with all Lore of Beasts spells and multiple big blocks of pink horrors). They easily render the dragon and the hydra ineffective for the whole game, unless you get really lucky with the Ring of Hotek. ;)


Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:22 pm
Hydra Lord

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:13 pm
Posts: 261
Alright... strategy used.

Typically I line up in the biggest open spot with the 3 units of crossbowmen. They focus fire on whatever blocks or baddies line up across the battle line and kill whatever the black guard can't handle. I put the black guard behind the middle unit so the ring covers them. The bolt throwers are also covered by the ring. I expect the crossbowmen to eventually die to fire, but they are one of the harder elements to kill with shooting with a 5+ save. Also 60 shots into a block of troops hurts everyone, even if its only a couple models a turn. (t4 dwarves with a 4+ save may lose less models, but those models cost more, etc). Against skaven, this part of my battle plan was almost enough to win by itself, just panicing the units with engineers and/or grey seer.

You identified a huge weakness to this list, that is the lore of beasts. Teclis took beasts both times against me and both times he spent most of the game keeping the dragon from moving. However, there is usually at least once during the game that he doesnt roll doubles on 4 or 5 dice, and if you're taking 4 or 5 of Teclis's dice every turn and not giving up victory points thats not nearly as bad as it sounds. I have to think about a 3 units of tzeetch list vs this..but if the dragon and the hydra are pinned in place all game, I still get a lot of crossbow shots into fairly squishy horrors. Again though, if the tzeentch player is using most of his dice on holding the hydra and dragon in place (not killing them).. i will eventually shoot up his units and/or wave charge his wizards dead with harpies, dark riders and chariot. hopefully.

I usually use the Hydra and Chariot joined charge to kill opposing wizards. For example last game against Vampires, the hydra charged in, killed the vampire count in front with the black guard behind him. The hydra lost combat by 1 and missed its break test, but the vampire was dead and the skeletons pursued into the black guard. (the hydra was also lucky enough to get away and was able to charge another vampire's unit later on and killed that vampire, too and won combat that time by 1). Chariots are great for squishy wizards as well with 2 str 4 and 2 str 5 attacks with hatred. The impact often kills enough to offset resolution and leadership 9 often holds on losses of 1 or 2.

The army that I'm actually most concerned about, and haven't had to go up against yet, is an Empire knight heavy army with war machines. Now, 4 units of harpies do good at killing war machines, but a 2 hellblaster, 2 cannon list with a lot of 1+ save knights would cause me a lot of issues. Especially if the opponent takes pistoliers with the other special slots to hunt down my harpies. Bretonnia isn't as bad as 2+ isn't near as good as 1+ against repeating crossbows... but the game I drew Bretonnia he made a lot of saves.. the game I massacred him, he didn't. (different player).

I'll have to see if I can get a game against my buddies daemons, he usually runs 2 blocks of nurgle with heralds and 2 blocks of tzeentch with heralds and some flamers in a 2250 game. Its a vicious list and I have never beat it with my old DE lists, but I haven't played it with this one.

Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:24 pm
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