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The D.R.A.I.C.H. Boot Camp – Resistance to a charge. 
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Corsair
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The D.R.A.I.C.H. Boot Camp – evaluating DE units.

Boot Camp 0 – Admission
Boot Camp 1 – First Week – resistance to mass shooting
Boot Camp 2 – Second Week – Resistance to a charge
Boot Camp 3 – Third Week – charging destructive power
Boot Camp 4 – Forth Week – killing when exhausted: further rounds of melee
Boot Camp 5 – Fifth Week – doping with a cauldron of blood
Boot Camp 6 – Sixth Week – flag-doping
Boot Camp 7 – Seventh Week – The Monoliths Shooting Range
Boot Camp 8 – Eighth Week – graduation ceremony – unit’s champions.
Boot Camp 9 – Last Week – specialization – departure for War.

Boot Camp extension
Boot Camp 1bis – First Week-end – template vulnerability (considered)

Other DE training rooms (might be considered some day – not necessarily by the same author):
Temple of Khaine’s fencing room
Clar Karond Noblemen’s Arena
Iron Mountains’ Ranch
Ghrond Experimental Lab


Hi all D.net.

This is the second week Boot Camp thread.
I still wish to be able to post one more per week, which means I'm going to slow down.

For a quick conclusion, jump to chapter 2.


Last edited by Calisson on Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:01 pm, edited 10 times in total.



Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:13 pm
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1. Second Week - Resistance to a charge.

“Let’s see if you guys can resist a little smack in your face.”

Principle.

The question is to determine how each DE unit do behaves against the six following, sample opponents charging at them? Two of them with low strength attacks, two of them with high strength attacks, two of them with a mix.
- 10 Norse (AHW & Frenzy), i.e. many S3 attacks,
- 3 Ogres (GW), i.e. high strength (S6) attacks,
- 10 Dwarves (3+save), i.e. few low strength attacks,
- 5 Heavy cavalry, high & low strength attacks,
- 1 DE Chariot, high & low strength attacks,
- 1 Black Dragon with no rider, high strength (S6) attacks.
I don’t know if it is a good representation of what could be encountered, but this is what I am taking.

Please notice that, at this stage, I do not allow any unit to strike back, although stand & shoot is evaluated.
All units (friend & foe) having a 5 frontage unless otherwise discussed (notably for the stand & shoot reaction, for which they get 10 aligned if they can).

As my concern is to be cost-efficient, what I’d like to determine is:
How many DE pts will each foe destroy in one turn?

In order to determine that, I did compute how many pts of elves are killed during a below-average charge, an average charge, an above-average charge by each one of the 6 units considered.

In each case, the likelihood of (hitting) x (wounding) x (not saving) results in a probability of (kill) – which I won’t discuss here.
Multiplied by the (number of hits), we got the “average” number of kills.
We also further compute the reasonably lucky hits and the reasonably unlucky ones.
Between the “unlucky” and the “lucky” is the range of expected, normal result.
The three figures I provide – sometimes – show the (below average, average, above average) range.

The problem is that it brings a lot of figures… Ways too many.
So often I just provide a single, averaged result. It is just like if we could consider that the unit is charged several times in a row by each of the opposing 6 units mentioned above (regenerating all its members in between), and we average the number of dead bodies.


1.1. Shielded warriors
These warriors leave their spear and benefit from the best protection: 4 save.

the Marauders are likely to kill between 0 to 4 warriors,
the ogres 2 to 6,
the Dwarves 0 to 1,
the cavalry (and their horses) 1 to 5,
the chariot 3 to 9,
the dragon 3 to 5.

I will use the shielded warriors as a comparison for all other units:
Do they suffer more or less, in average, from the same opponents?

1.2. Unshielded Warriors.
Not much difference: -4% less pts of unshielded warriors are destroyed by the same attacks as shielded warriors.
Low strength attacks deal a lot more of damage. High strength attacks negate the shield, which is an advantage for unshielded warriors.
The shield is very useful against low strength attacks, a waste against high strength attacks.

1.3. MXB.
+60% more pts destroyed than would shielded warriors.

But don’t forget: the stand & shoot reaction, supposing the distance allows it (more than half of the charge distance) and that it happens at long range (cavalry, chariot, dragon) or short range (all others) would allow to
kill 2-6 Norse, not unlikely a full Ogre, usually one dwarf. On soft targets, it pays!. Lightly armoured troops charging MXB have a lot to worry about stand & shoot.

1.4. Shielded MXB.
+57% compared to shielded warriors, nearly the same as unshielded MXB. The shield pays itself back.

1.5. Corsairs.
+55% pts are destroyed. Kills stats are extremely close to warriors’s:
the Marauders are likely to kill between 1 to 5 corsairs,
the ogres 2 to 6,
the Dwarves 0 to 2,
the cavalry (and their horses) 1 to 5,
the chariot 3 to 9,
the dragon 3 to 5.

1.6. RHB corsairs.
No difference with regular corsairs, of course… once the contact is made.
However, the stand & shoot reaction with all 10 corsairs (they lined up before the charge) provides some results quite close to 10 MXB: the corsair’s RHB have only 86% of the efficiency of MXB… provided the MXB can shoot at all.
However, in the following melee, the corsairs are either 17% more resistant than the MXB or nearly as resistant but 10% less expensive. So overall the cost/efficiency is close.

1.7. Shielded DR.
+162% pts destroyed compared to shielded warriors.
However, the full stats show that they better not be charged!
The whole unit is likely to be totally destroyed by Chariot, and not unlikely to be totally destroyed by Ogres or cavalry or dragon. The shield is not very efficient!

1.8. DR.
+163% pts destroyed compared to shielded warriors. The shield makes practically no difference: is pts cost is exactly balanced with its efficiency. As usual, against the hardest hitting foes, the shield is useless (and hence cost-ineffective), against lower strength foes, it pays off!

1.9. MXB DR.
+241% compared to shielded warriors.
Stand & shoot stats are the same as for MXB: useful only against soft targets. However, there is usually less MXB to shoot with in a DR unit…

1.10. Harpies.
+110% compared to shielded warriors.

1.11. Armoured shades.
+163% compared to shielded warriors. The armour is useful, but really not much.
The whole unit is likely to be destroyed by Ogres, and not unlikely to be totally destroyed by Chariot, cavalry or dragon and even Norse. The armour is not very efficient!

1.12. Shades.
+161% compared to shielded warriors.
Their stand & shoot odds are slightly improved compared to MXB – however, there are only 5 shades, so the numbers of shots are halved.
Shade’s stand & shoot reaction is still 85% as efficient as regular MXB who have twice as many shots!

But, considering the very bad resistance of shades to melee, they should consider fleeing except if the charging unit is very soft.

1.13. AHW shades.
+177% compared to shielded warriors.

1.14. GW shades.
+193% compared to shielded warriors.

1.15. WE.
+72% compared to shielded warriors.

1.16. Execs.
+75% compared to shielded warriors.

1.17. BG.
+89% compared to shielded warriors.

1.18. COK.
+148% compared to shielded warriors.
Their armour does protect them, but COK are so expensive that killing a few of them is more rewarding than killing many more warriors.
They can afford to be charged by a high amount of low S attacks (Norse). But even against Norse or Dwarves, the few COK lost cost more than what the reference warriors would have cost.
They suffer severely from high strength attack.

1.19. COC.
+119% compared to shielded warriors (taking into account its 4 wounds).
Only the 3 ogres are likely to destroy a chariot in slightly less than half f the cases; the chariot could destroy it on the charge, if lucky.

1.20. Hydra.
+10% only, compared to shielded warriors: the hydra is incredibly resistant! And I don’t event took the beast masters into account.
Nobody will kill the hydra on the charge! The 3 ogres could cause 3 wounds if lucky, the chariot 2 wounds if lucky.


Last edited by Calisson on Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:13 pm
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2. Discussion.
Units to sacrifice, units to protect


First thing, let’s compare the units according to how many wounds they can absorb per 100pts, not taking into account the armour at this stage:

Cannon-fodder:
unshielded and shielded warriors
You can assign them suicide missions; they get 17 or 14 wounds per 100pts of unit.
They make cheap diversion targets. Even in big numbers, they can soak the opponent’s aggressiveness while other units position for a flank charge, and make a good use of the pts invested in them.



Normal units:
unshielded MXB & Corsairs (all kind) & WE;
shielded MXB & harpies;
execs, BG.

They get between 10 and 8 wounds per 100pts of unit.
If you sacrifice them, it must be in small numbers: it is OK to let 5 execs killed by the opponent’s mega-mammoth-über-unit-of-cheesy-doom, but paying more models than the minimum size to obtain the same result is a waste. If you put them in big numbers, you must use them to win, not just to delay.


Precious units:
DR (all kind), shades (all kind), COC, hydra, COK
You got only 6 to 4 wounds per 100pts of unit. Each of their wound is priceless, it is highly rewarding for the opponent.
Some of these units have good armour (see below).
The others must be protected from the enemy, because each loss of any of them will cost you a lot.



The best charge reaction
The ranking from the most sturdy or inexpensive troops to the most fragile & expensive is as follows:

Shielded warrior, unshielded warrior, hydra:
If charged, they expect low pts losses. Don’t flee with them: you can accept a charge, you will not loose many pts.
However: Hydra don’t like that much high strength attacks. The testing was made with no flaming attacks, which would double the wounds taken by the hydra (dropping two categories and becoming as BG).

MXB, Corsairs, WE, Execs
Expect +60% to 90% more pts losses than if it has been warriors. You don’t like them to be charged but if ever it happens, it is not that much a big deal.
Stand & shoot reaction provides excellent result on soft targets, for which there is no big difference between RHB and MXB. On better armoured targets, you’re lucky if you get 1 kill.

BG, Harpies, COC, COK
expect +100% to +150% more losses than if it has been warriors. With these units, you must avoid to be charged because it is likely to be rewarding for your opponent. Fleeing should be considered.
Among them however, harpies can be sacrificed: they are very easily destroyed but they cost not that much, and if they are destroyed, nobody cares; in case they had flee, they would have been reluctant to rally anyhow.
For COC and COK, the investment made in each of their wound needs consideration. Knowing that they can flee 3D6 and have a high Ld to rally later, fleeing is definitively to be considered rather than being charged.
Exceptions:
If facing S3 attacks mostly, you can keep COK and COC in the front rank.
If facing S6 attacks, harpies are improving and go in the previous category.

DR, Shades
Suffer +150% to +250% more pts losses than if it has been warriors. To be charged is dramatic for them and a precious treat for the opponent, they must flee if they can.

They may stand & shoot, but it may provide worthy results only against very soft targets (3 dead marauders, 1 dead dwarf). On better armoured targets, you’re lucky if you get 1 kill.



Adaptation to S3 attacks only, or S5-6 attacks only, or S6 attacks only.
Now, if you know before making your Army list which kind of melee attacks you’re going to face, the above list can be refined:

If it is mostly S3 attacks, then the most cost-effective troop who can absorb these attacks are (ranking from lesser pts loss to higher pts loss):
Hydra (most interesting by far),
COC, Warriors & shield, COK, Warrior, MXB & shield (no big loss)
Corsair, Corsair & RHB, Exec, MXB, BG, DR & shield, WE, DR (more worrisome loss)
Shade & armour, DR & MXB, Harpies, Shade, Shade & AHW, Shade & GW (very high loss).

If it is a mix of S3, S4 and S5 attacks, the ranking becomes (ranking from lesser pts loss to higher pts loss):
Warrior, Warrior & shield, Hydra, (most interesting by far),
MXB, Corsair, Corsair & RHB, MXB & shield, Exec, WE, BG (no big loss),
Harpies, COC, Shade, Shade & armour, Shade & AHW, Shade & GW, DR, DR & shield, COK (more worrisome loss),
DR & MXB (very high loss).

If it is mostly S6 attacks, the ranking becomes (ranking from lesser pts loss to higher pts loss):
Warrior, Warrior & shield (most interesting by far),
Corsair, Corsair & RHB, MXB, WE, Hydra, MXB & shield, Harpies, Exec, BG
Shade, DR, Shade & armour, Shade & AHW, DR & shield, Shade & GW, COK, COC, DR & MXB


Last edited by Calisson on Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:14 pm
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3. End of the Second week.

“Next week, we’ll be allowed to strike back.
I cannot wait! I hate them I hate them I hate them I really hate them so much!”


To be continued in another thread.
(see hyperlinks in the beginning of the thread).

If you find that some of the conclusions drawn here are inconsistent with your own feeling, it could be worth investigating. I could further analyse the reasons for the divergence – or identify the flaw in my reasoning, and correct it for the sake of all D.netters.

I am eager to learn about actual successful / unsuccessful live experience in application of this lengthy theory-hammering.

_________________
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}


Last edited by Calisson on Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:15 pm
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4. Records.

One death is a drama.
On million deaths is a statistic.
Stalin.



Here are some of the stats, that I provide you in case you needed some references.
You don’t need to read it at all!

The first set of figures is about average pts destroyed by low, medium or high strength attacks.
10 Marauders & 10 Dwarves are S3,
5 Knights & 1 Chariot are S3 to S5,
3 Ogres & 1 Dragon are S6,
and all of them averaged together is the last number,

(S3, S3 to S5, S6 average) strength attacks kill how many pts of each DE troop?
09 29 26 21 pts of Warrior & shield
13 27 22 21 pts of Warrior
21 45 37 34 pts of MXB
14 46 41 34 pts of MXB & shield
17 46 37 33 pts of Corsair
17 46 37 33 pts of Corsair & RHB
23 79 67 56 pts of DR & shield
28 78 63 56 pts of DR
37 100 82 73 pts of DR & MXB
37 57 41 45 pts of Harpies
35 70 63 56 pts of Shade & armour
40 68 60 56 pts of Shade
43 72 63 59 pts of Shade & AHW
45 77 67 63 pts of Shade & GW
25 49 37 37 pts of WE
20 48 45 37 pts of Exec
22 51 48 41 pts of BG
11 81 67 53 pts of COK
07 61 73 47 pts of COC
04 30 37 24 pts of Hydra


The figures represent how many kills are to be expected when receiving a charge
(Lowest range, in average, highest range)
0,2 1,9 3,5 Warrior & shield killed by Marauders (same stats for MXB & shield)
1,6 3,8 5,9 Warrior & shield killed by Ogres
0,1 0,6 1,2 Warrior & shield killed by Dwarves
0,9 2,1 3,3 Warrior & shield killed by Heavy cavalry
0,1 0,6 1,2 Warrior & shield killed by Horses
2,2 3,9 5,6 Warrior & shield killed by Chariot
1,1 1,5 1,9 Warrior & shield killed by Crew
0,1 0,3 0,6 Warrior & shield killed by Mount
2,7 3,7 4,7 Warrior & shield killed by Dragon
0,7 3,1 5,6 Warrior killed by Marauders (same stats for MXB)
1,6 3,8 5,9 Warrior killed by Ogres
0,2 1,0 1,9 Warrior killed by Dwarves
0,9 2,1 3,3 Warrior killed by Heavy cavalry
0,2 1,0 1,9 Warrior killed by Horses
2,2 3,9 5,6 Warrior killed by Chariot
1,1 1,5 1,9 Warrior killed by Crew
0,3 0,5 0,8 Warrior killed by Mount
2,7 3,7 4,7 Warrior killed by Dragon
0,4 2,5 4,6 Corsair killed by Marauders (same stats for Corsair & RHB)
1,6 3,8 5,9 Corsair killed by Ogres
0,1 0,8 1,5 Corsair killed by Dwarves
0,9 2,1 3,3 Corsair killed by Heavy cavalry
0,1 0,8 1,5 Corsair killed by Horses
2,2 3,9 5,6 Corsair killed by Chariot
1,1 1,5 1,9 Corsair killed by Crew
0,3 0,8 1,3 Corsair killed by Mount
2,7 3,7 4,7 Corsair killed by Dragon
0,2 1,9 3,5 DR & shield killed by Marauders
1,6 3,8 5,9 DR & shield killed by Ogres
0,1 0,6 1,2 DR & shield killed by Dwarves
0,9 2,1 3,3 DR & shield killed by Heavy cavalry
0,1 0,6 1,2 DR & shield killed by Horses
2,2 3,9 5,6 DR & shield killed by Chariot
1,1 1,5 1,9 DR & shield killed by Crew
0,2 0,7 1,1 DR & shield killed by Mount
2,7 3,7 4,7 DR & shield killed by Dragon
0,4 2,5 4,6 DR killed by Marauders (same stats for DR & MXB)
1,6 3,8 5,9 DR killed by Ogres
0,1 0,8 1,5 DR killed by Dwarves
0,9 2,1 3,3 DR killed by Heavy cavalry
0,1 0,8 1,5 DR killed by Horses
2,2 3,9 5,6 DR killed by Chariot
1,1 1,5 1,9 DR killed by Crew
0,3 0,8 1,3 DR killed by Mount
2,7 3,7 4,7 DR killed by Dragon
1,7 5,0 8,3 Harpies killed by Marauders
1,6 3,8 5,9 Harpies killed by Ogres
0,6 1,7 2,8 Harpies killed by Dwarves
1,5 2,8 4,0 Harpies killed by Heavy cavalry
0,3 1,3 2,2 Harpies killed by Horses
2,2 3,9 5,6 Harpies killed by Chariot
1,1 1,5 1,9 Harpies killed by Crew
0,5 1,0 1,5 Harpies killed by Mount
2,7 3,7 4,7 Harpies killed by Dragon
0,7 3,1 5,6 Shade & armour killed by Marauders
1,6 3,8 5,9 Shade & armour killed by Ogres
0,2 1,0 1,9 Shade & armour killed by Dwarves
0,9 2,1 3,3 Shade & armour killed by Heavy cavalry
0,2 1,0 1,9 Shade & armour killed by Horses
1,2 2,9 4,6 Shade & armour killed by Chariot
0,8 1,3 1,7 Shade & armour killed by Crew
0,5 1,0 1,5 Shade & armour killed by Mount
2,7 3,7 4,7 Shade & armour killed by Dragon
0,9 3,8 6,6 Shade killed by Marauders (same stats with AHW & GW)
1,6 3,8 5,9 Shade killed by Ogres
0,3 1,3 2,2 Shade killed by Dwarves
0,9 2,1 3,3 Shade killed by Heavy cavalry
0,3 1,3 2,2 Shade killed by Horses
1,2 2,9 4,6 Shade killed by Chariot
0,8 1,3 1,7 Shade killed by Crew
0,5 1,0 1,5 Shade killed by Mount
2,7 3,7 4,7 Shade killed by Dragon
0,9 3,8 6,6 WE killed by Marauders
1,6 3,8 5,9 WE killed by Ogres
0,3 1,3 2,2 WE killed by Dwarves
0,9 2,1 3,3 WE killed by Heavy cavalry
0,3 1,3 2,2 WE killed by Horses
2,2 3,9 5,6 WE killed by Chariot
1,1 1,5 1,9 WE killed by Crew
0,5 1,0 1,5 WE killed by Mount
2,7 3,7 4,7 WE killed by Dragon
0,4 2,5 4,6 Exec killed by Marauders (same stats for BG)
1,6 3,8 5,9 Exec killed by Ogres
0,1 0,8 1,5 Exec killed by Dwarves
0,9 2,1 3,3 Exec killed by Heavy cavalry
0,1 0,8 1,5 Exec killed by Horses
1,2 2,9 4,6 Exec killed by Chariot
0,8 1,3 1,7 Exec killed by Crew
0,3 0,8 1,3 Exec killed by Mount
2,7 3,7 4,7 Exec killed by Dragon
0,0 0,6 1,2 COK killed by Marauders
0,7 2,5 4,3 COK killed by Ogres
0,0 0,2 0,4 COK killed by Dwarves
0,6 1,7 2,9 COK killed by Heavy cavalry
0,0 0,2 0,4 COK killed by Horses
1,2 2,9 4,6 COK killed by Chariot
0,3 0,8 1,3 COK killed by Crew
0,1 0,3 0,6 COK killed by Mount
1,2 2,5 3,7 COK killed by Dragon
0,0 0,4 0,9 COC wounded by Marauders
1,2 3,3 5,4 COC wounded by Ogres
0,0 0,1 0,3 COC wounded by Dwarves
0,4 1,3 2,2 COC wounded by Heavy cavalry
0,0 0,1 0,3 COC wounded by Horses
0,8 2,3 3,9 COC wounded by Chariot
0,3 0,7 1,2 COC wounded by Crew
0,0 0,3 0,5 COC wounded by Mount
1,2 2,5 3,7 COC wounded by Dragon
0,0 0,3 0,5 Hydra wounded by Marauders
0,3 1,5 2,8 Hydra wounded by Ogres
0,0 0,1 0,2 Hydra wounded by Dwarves
0,1 0,5 0,9 Hydra wounded by Heavy cavalry
0,0 0,1 0,2 Hydra wounded by Horses
0,2 1,2 2,1 Hydra wounded by Chariot
0,1 0,4 0,8 Hydra wounded by Crew
0,0 0,2 0,3 Hydra wounded by Mount
0,4 1,5 2,5 Hydra wounded by Dragon


Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:16 pm
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