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Dark Elf's win the Broadside Bash (Indy GT) 
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:27 pm
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Location: Los Angeles, Ca, USA
Well the Dark Elf's managed to win overall at this years broadside Bash in Los Angeles Ca.

The final score was very close between a VC army and mine, but battle points tiped the balance for me.

Army:
Characters = 690pts
Master, SDC, HvyA, SHD, SoulRender, Pendant of K = General
Sorceress, Lv1, 2 DS
Hag Queen, Cauldron.
Hag Queen, BSB, Manbane, Rune of Khaine, Banner of Hag Graef

Core:
3 10xRXB with Shields (1 with Muso)
6 Harpies

Special:
19 Executioners,FC, WB, Tullaris (Unit causes Fear)
14 BG, FC, Ap Banner, Ring of Hotek on Champ
7 BG
6 COK with Muso

Rare:
1 RBT
1 Hydra

General Notes;
I was in the middle of the pack as far as comp (to my surprise) but todays DE are much thought of as Deamons so if you bring DE expect people to roll there eyes and say "Broken". There was many DE players at this trournment, as well as VC, and Deamons. A few Skaven, OG, Mortals, and basically any bad guy race you could find.

Game 1:
OK: This was this guys first GT and so he did not know the DE list very well.
He took 3 Casters, plus the Lord Fighter and lots of supporting Ogres. Basically I shot him till he got close, then counter charged his line and destroyed it in HTH. Nice Guy but he just was ready for DE hartred on a pump up unit of Exec. Max Points.

Game 2:
Skaven. One of the nicest guys I have ever played Warhammer with (And he is really good to boot). He had a molder theme army with almost no casting, Lord, Molder Heros, lot of Rat Ogres.

Terrian basically split the board into two, so one one side was most of his unit and the other some fluff (I matched this on my end). I moved up everything he did as well. He moved some Slaves up forceing my EXE with the witch Elf to charge (She is Frenzyed). They ran so my Exe unit was in front of my line. He charged it with his generals unit of 35 Clan Rats (Banner of Fear with BSB in Back) and another unit to its side. I go First and do 7 (COB +1 Attack) wounds to his generals unit and 4 wounds to the flanking unit. I do lots of attacks against his General with the BSB but do not kill him and is almost killed by the S4 attacks that rebond from his warp armour (GOOD Trick that is!). I win by a Lot and purse the generals uni and catch it. Pretty much his army falls apart and is picked apart for the rest of the game.
Max Points.

Game 3:
VC: Very good strong Caster Ghoul Army. He created more and more Ghouls and I shot him for a while till he got close then counter charged. His Nasty BKinghts unit decided to kill my Hydra and thus was taken far away from the main combat area. The Turn that he really wanted to get off Dance he could not as a miscast (Thank you Ring!) ended the magic phase.

I thus charged his generals unit with BG to the front and Exe to the Flank (Exe +1 Attack from the COB). I did over 18 wounds on the ghouls and killed his Lord with Res. He resigned as the overrun brought me into the next ghoul unit with his other caster, and the same results to occure.
Max Points


Game 4:
Mortals of Chaos, Great Slannesh List. Knights, Chosen with Frenzy Banner, Mauraders, Fast Cav, Giant, 2 Chariots,Chaos Lord with No AS and Ruin shield with Knights.

Very touch and Go. I shot and Shot and did nothing much. The Harpies marched block his main units. COK did a COB (+1 Attack) suicide Charge into the Knights to reduce the number and killed 4 before being cut down by the Lord. Killed his giant with RXBs and RBT. His Chariots messed me up as I just could not hit them with the RXB. His Chosen Flanked Charged my BG and killed 8 Models with just 3 of his Chosen attacking (OCH!).

It all came down to a Chariot hitting the BG to the front (The Chosen on the flank) and he wiffing on the wounds so there was a few BG left to allow Stubborn Roll). That allowed for me managed to get a Flank charge on the chosen with the Exe (+1 Attack COB) and smashed the unit.

That ended the Game but it could have gone the other way if his chariot had rolled well.

Game:5
DE: The Death Star of Shades. Lord (1/2 BS Item), Master (MR3), Master (Immune to Psy), BSB with ASF Banner. 3 RXB, 4 RBT, 9 Shades, 25 to 30 Shades.

Och and Och!
So I hid almost everything behind a building and forest and he moved all the Shades into the Center forest. I ran the Hydra with a Ward Save (COB)straight at The Shades with all the characters. After a Huge amount of fire (His RBT could not see if as the forest blocked it) the Hydra managed to shrug off all the missiles with AS, REG, Ward, and T5. Then I charged into HTH. Up popped an Assassin with Maneblane and managed to do 2 wounds to the Hydra. All his characters attacked the Hydra but bouced off the Saves. His shades kill the Handlers. My Attacks back kill a Master and the Assassin. I lose by 3 and Stay as the BSB and Master General is nearby.

With his main unit pinned, everything comes out to play. The COK rush out as do the Exe. The BG move out on the otherside. His RBT do some damage to the units as the break from cover but Basically the Hydra manages to pin the Main Shade unit till the other stuff gets into combat and crush his Shades. The Hydra really saved the day!
Once his main unit is gone, The game is pretty much over.
Full Points.

So it was a great experience and I played some really good players. I was lucky and did not fight some of the stronger deamon armies there.

Ta, Clive Henrick

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Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:11 pm
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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Nice job! You don't have what I would characterize as a super-heard tournament list at all.

As your report illustrate, the 5+ ward Cauldron blessing on a Hydra turns it into a real tank. Not much can touch it between tougness 5, the armor, ward and regen. Perfect illustration on how to pop the Shade Death Star. Steam Tank would also do the job.

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Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:34 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
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Well done my friend and as Dyvim says, a perfect example of why the Shade Death Star is not particularly that good a concept.

Inbteresting list you have there compaired to what we see this side of the pond.

Congratulations!

What's your thinking behind the unit of 7 BG? I have run a 14 and a 10 before.


Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:06 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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Quote:
What's your thinking behind the unit of 7 BG? I have run a 14 and a 10 before
.

7 was all I could afford. I would have taken the BG unit up to 20 (as it is almost impossible to get full VP from it), but I wanted better comp. Also 7 BG managed to beat, 20 x Skaven Clanrats, Maurader Fast Cav, 20 Ghouls, 3 Rat Ogres. They died to a Man in most games, but it took more than 91pts to do it. So it allows for you to put a small unit which people have to pay attention to. If I had points I would have taken another 5 COK instead as they do the same thing with better AS. And with the COB a unit of 5 COK can equal 10 S6 WS5 Attacks (w/Hatred) on a Charge.

Next Time I will try and figure a way to take another unit of COK just to distract people. The Power of the army is the Exe with the ASF banner. If people focus on it, then 75% of my power goes away.

So far people think Exe as so much worse than BG (The are without the COB) that they do not pay attention to them. But with the COB and in a 7 wide formation, the are just the most powerful inf in the game on a charge (Hatred with KB). Of course they just die do to anything with range.

Ta, Clive

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Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:20 pm
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Did you play open lists?


Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:53 pm
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Hey, clivegh, welcome in D.net!

Compliments!
This is your 4th post, in 2 threads that you both started, and you triggered immediately so much interest that no one paid attention to your low post count.
That's not all:
both thread found immediately their way into the D.R.A.I.C.H.

You're intriguing me.
You're no beginner at all, obviously!
Hope to read from you again and again (even if it gives me some work updating the D.R.A.I.C.H.).


A warm welcome again, overdue but well deserved.

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Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:15 pm
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Congrats. I run an almost carbon copy of your character setup with the master instead riding a steed and carrying a sword of might. I like your list. It looks like it works pretty well.

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Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:36 am
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Trainee Warrior

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Calisson wrote:
Hey, clivegh, welcome in D.net!

Compliments!
This is your 4th post, in 2 threads that you both started, and you triggered immediately so much interest that no one paid attention to your low post count.
That's not all:
both thread found immediately their way into the D.R.A.I.C.H.

You're intriguing me.
You're no beginner at all, obviously!
Hope to read from you again and again (even if it gives me some work updating the D.R.A.I.C.H.).


Hello!
No I am not a beginner with warhammer as I have been playing since 2002.
I won best general at LA GT with Chaos Dwarfs back in 2002 or 2003, Best General with Empire at the Quake City Rumble in 2007 (Indy GT), Best General (Chaos deamons) at Los Angeles Game Day 2008, and 3rd place at the So Ca Slaughter (Dark Elfs) in 2008 (Indy GT). I am not in the same league as the best players in the US, but I can hold my own in the West Coast Area.

I just started playing Dark Elfs in a serious way about 6 months ago and I love the army. It is a wonderful match of suttle units that combine into a very powerful list. I always find that many players take the brute force armies and miss all of the small tweaks that can lead to a great army that does not cause your oppenent to roll his eyes and say "Cheese!".

To be Honest I hate watching people take really one sided builds to a GT. They give the armies a bad rep and lead players to just hate playing against that army. The 40 DarkStar Shade army is that for DE. The 12 Flamers and a Blood Thirster is that for deamons.

The wonder of Warhammer is that there is so much suttleness to well designed armies (Such as DARK ELF's) that a player can tweak all day long and still find new things. The Armies such as Deamons, well I find them much more one sided. Its not that you can not build a cool themed army that both powerful but fun to play against, its just the style of play does not lend itself to it.

But thank you for the welcome. Its very very cool to find a home on the web with such a fountain of info and such as supportive group. About 1/2 of the tactics I have been using are from this list and I love reading what other people are doing.

Looking forward to more reading and more battle reports.

Clive

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Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:09 am
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Nice playing you've done at the tournament! I must admit, the first time I saw the list I thought, strange, it doesn't look that strong, but after reading the reports I can only say one thing: Wow.

Also, welcome to D.net ;) , my post count is higher, but your obviously better :P *kneels befor the might of Clive*.

-Farodin

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Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:49 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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Dark Alliance wrote:
Did you play open lists?


No the list were closed

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:44 am
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How do you rate Tullaris? Was he a magnet for any models left alive in combat to target/did he ever die?

Did he earn his points back do you think? Basically is he worth it for primarily the fear factor, and how did he perform in challenges?


Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:19 am
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Trainee Warrior

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Dark Alliance wrote:
How do you rate Tullaris? Was he a magnet for any models left alive in combat to target/did he ever die?

Did he earn his points back do you think? Basically is he worth it for primarily the fear factor, and how did he perform in challenges?


Thats a hard question to answer.

Basically I HATED having to take him to get fear out of the way. I HATE HATE HATE to waste 95pts in an army that every point really matters.

He never died, He really is no better than a unit champion in any of the games I played. He did against skaven, get to use the sacred slaughter rule but I had already killed 7-11 models at that point so it did not matter much.

I would have had to make critical fear tests in almost every game I played, so with him I did not. On a LD9 (Hag Queen) I should have passed them anyway but any of the tests failed could have cost me the game.

The BG special champ is so much better its not even funny. But in the current, almost everyone causes fear, then its a sort of must. I really hate having to as I could use the 95pts in a million ways, but its a lot of points to have auto break because you lose by 1.

What else have people done with him?

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:05 pm
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I haven't seen anyone else use him. I would like to try him out, but as you have stated he is expensive. Damn expensive! Thanks for the insight though Clive.

So judging by your comment you have used Kouran? Care to share?


Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:15 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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Dark Alliance wrote:
I haven't seen anyone else use him. I would like to try him out, but as you have stated he is expensive. Damn expensive! Thanks for the insight though Clive.

So judging by your comment you have used Kouran? Care to share?


Well Lets see. We get Magic Weapon that allows for all attacks at S6, Armour that makes players take a T Test to attack, and makes the unit unbreakable.

In practical terms that makes the unit have to be killed to the man for 75pts. It allows for the unit to attack undead spirt creatures, makes fighting High Elfs or DE much harder to kill him as they suck at T.

But the Biggest reason? YOU DO NOT NEED AN BSB in an army with him. The BG can wade out into the middle of no mans land and just kill anything that attacks it. Give it the ASF Banner and just watch everyone get out of the way. Form a Line of 20 accross and march accross the center of the board. Yuck.

But it also means no characters can be in that unit as it is unbreakable. I would guess that would also mean no Assassins in the unit. So it does take away some of the flexibility.

But it is a good choice. I useally play in games that do not allow any special characters so I do not use him much.

Did I miss anything? Anyone?

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:28 pm
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I'll quote you in my next Boot Camp thread (about champions).
Thanks

A comment still: Kouran in a big unit makes indeed a big tar pit, however:
- the unit is still vulnerable to shooting & magic (armor 5+)
- the unit relies heavily on a single model, and therefore is vulnerable to sniping (Hochland, some spells).

A comment on the single-line unit (interesting and creative tactics, by the way)
- the tar pit line unit can be tarpitted by an attack on its flanks: the flanking model has 2 attacks only, he cannot kill more than 2. If the attacking unit has a SCR of 2, it can last a long time. If such attack is imminent, better reform before receiving the charge.

Otherwise I agree with you that 75pts is not that expensive, considering that it includes the cost of a champion and his 25pts weapon and more. It could be worth taking in a big unit (the 20 maximum).

Thanks for sharing your sound experience (what I am lacking most).

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:54 pm
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On one of our local boards, the Ghoul-caster list you played (Bob) also commented that he liked your list and enjoyed playing you. Well done!!


Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:26 pm
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Do you not find then over your side of the water that people just generally try their utmost to simply avoid combat with BG? Choosing instead to magic and shoot them?

Bearing in mind I use BG a lot so I am just curious about your experiences.


Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:12 pm
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I used to field black guard in the "big bunker" with the ring of hotek, ASF banner, and a dead hard dreadlord with a ring of darkness.

Now that a lot of people have gotten used to this setup and have found ways to thwart the ring (rule of burning iron, chariots, flatout avoiding the unit, etc) I have had to disband that old idea in favor of smaller units. Now I tend to take my black guard in 10-12 strong units screened with repeater handbow corsairs, and I save the ASF banner for units like my cold one knights who have also coincidently been the ones carrying the ring a lot lately.

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:07 pm
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@Vesh: I echo your comments, and my knights also run that combo now.

How's that new baby btw buddy?


Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:35 pm
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How did the single RBT work out for you? I've always seen just one as a waste of points seeing as it usually takes two to make a dent in anything.

And was it hard to keep things from outmanuevering you or was your shooting enough to keep the fast stuff at bay?

Anyway great job, I might even try out your list someday as it fits my style perfectly.


Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:27 pm
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If I have a unit of Black Guard on the table, I get the usual means and groans. But usually that's the first thing that people charge. They want to or need to kill it so they throw everything at it. And if my Black Guard aren't in combat, they're the target of pretty much all shooting. Now when I field them they sit behind ten naked warriors who soak up missle fire and, if they survive, help set up charges.

It should be noted that the *general* feeling is that here in southern California, lists are much softer than the norm. So the moans and groans are because Black Guard are a step above a lot of other units on the table.


Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:57 am
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Entreri Bloodletter wrote:
How did the single RBT work out for you? I've always seen just one as a waste of points seeing as it usually takes two to make a dent in anything.



And was it hard to keep things from outmanuevering you or was your shooting enough to keep the fast stuff at bay?

Anyway great job, I might even try out your list someday as it fits my style perfectly.


Thank you!

A High Elf player recently beat me (Steve M) with the normal PowerDice + RBT + Eagles + Lion Chariots + White Lions.

I did not take any RBT to the battle and it cost me in a huge way as I had nothing to effect the other player if he decided to stay on his side. Being able to effect the other player at all times is something that you want to do.

Magic is very dicey as there is so much luck involved in getting the spells, being able to cast the spells, and then have the spell get through the other guys defence.

So for DE that means you need the ability to reach out and touch someone in a nasty way.

RXB are fantastic for close range work. RBT allows for you to do the same across the table.

So taking one (two are better but I wanted the points in more Exe or the second unit of BG, and there is always the comp angle) was a way for me to at least in some form take the fight to the other player at all times.

It did things like Kill Fast Cav, Direwolfs, warhounds, giants, fell bats, ogres, fank shot into a Chaos Lord in Bolt mode (Helped me win Game 4!).

One on a Hill is a target but people do not focus on it. Its like a nasty pest. Two on a Hill says "MUST KILL THAT NOW!" so I find they tend to die that much faster.

Note: For me, killing the redirect units (Hounds, Fast Cav, Eagles) is the most important thing I can do as they cost me games by not letting me get the charge I really need to do. Players look at me funny when I do not shoot a unit of Chaos Knights but kill the hounds. Because at the final stages of a game, useally the hounds do more to spite me then the knights by taking a table edge or making my Exec (with the Hag BSB) charge right into a wood vs charge the flank of the chosen unit.

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Last edited by Clivegh on Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:42 pm
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clivegh wrote:
Players look at me funny when I do not shoot a unit of Chaos Knights but kill the hounds.
I couldn't agree more with the way in which you use your RBT. For me as well, the highest priority for them is killing off the support. Bu the way, this is also the reason why I always take Death magic and not Metal magic against chaos (if I go magic-heavy) - it's just more important to kill the hounds, marauders and spawn with ranged atacks than to kill knights (who can be dealt with by Close Combat units).


Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:47 pm
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You've got 30 RXB aren't they sufficient to take out any support?
Your roster is for 2250 pts. am I right? How do you deal with magic heavy [like 15 PD+] enemy?

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Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:43 pm
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clivegh wrote:
Note: For me, killing the redirect units (Hounds, Fast Cav, Eagles) is the most important thing I can do as they cost me games by not letting me get the charge I really need to do. Players look at me funny when I do not shoot a unit of Chaos Knights but kill the hounds. Because at the final stages of a game, useally the hounds do more to spite me then the knights by taking a table edge or making my Exec (with the Hag BSB) charge right into a wood vs charge the flank of the chosen unit.


Well said. I agree with this entirely. Lots of people don't understand how to use RBTs and end up choosing the wrong targets. The key to winning with Dark Elves (and with almost any army for that matter) is to achieve superiority in the movement phase. The first step in doing this is to deal with enemy light elements like fast cavalry and other screening troops.

I have also used a single RBT and have found it can be effective. Sometimes you just need something that can reach out and deal damage at a range of more than 24".

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Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:13 pm
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