Corsair Deathstar?

Widdershins · Post by **Widdershins** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:26 am

I've read about the Shade Deathstar, but I've always been fascinated with getting as many KB attacks as I can in one unit. This has drawn me towards possibly starting a DE army as the CoB seems to be a great way to get this, as DE also have units which can throw out a large amount of attacks.

The thread is a continuation of sorts of this one:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?p=741418#741418

So I was wondering, bread in one basket type deal, would the following work:

Large unit of Corsairs with an Assassin with Rune of Khaine and some kind of poison, a Hag with BSB and Hydra banner, also with Rune of Khaine, then add to that Lokhir, as well as the Sea Serpent Standard. And to top it all off, a CoB giving KB to the whole unit.

With a unit of 7 wide, you will get about 38 KB attacks (7 of which are ASF, 8 of which re-roll to wound) assuming that you're going up against a unit 4 ranks deep for Lokhir's attacks.

Is the Hydra banner worth it, or overkill? Is 7 more attacks, plus whatever the Hag adds, really worth it?

And what other units would you add to an army with this as it's centerpiece?

Madkins · Post by **Madkins** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:59 am

Small units of Executioners to guard the flanks.

Also, plenty of Harpies to screen the Corsairs so they don't get frenzy baited into a bad position.

Ehakir · Post by **Ehakir** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:55 am

And then came the big monster/ogre/non US1-2 unit and you couldn't kill them with your S3 attacks... Pity...

I don't think it will work, as their are too many units you can't handle: Star Dragons, Blood Thirsters, KoS, Ogres, Trolls,...
And if the enemy can't handle your unit they will put some divert unit in front and you will go at 5"/turn..

Gethsemane · Post by **Gethsemane** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:40 am

Or they just shoot/magic it to death... really really fragile. Too fragile, I think.

Thanatoz · Post by **Thanatoz** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:55 am

75 points banner for 7 str 3 attacks? I don't know...

Widdershins · Post by **Widdershins** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:10 am

Just an idea, I've never played with DE, I just like when things work together, and thought getting a metric buttload of KB attacks would be awesome.

I still really like the Corsair models, though, and Lokhir seems like a really flavourful character, so if I collect DE I might build an army around him.

edit: There's nothing you guys can suggest to add to the army to avoid these complications you're mentioning? It is a lot of low str attacks if the enemy isn't US1, true, but then it's not the only unit I would have, right? CoK could help, or Executioners? Probably wouldn't need the BSB either, true, not worth it.

Post by **Calisson** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:49 pm

Difficulties foreseen with the corair deathstar:
- they could be shot/magicked to death, it will take a long time but it will work, especially with template weapons.
- more worrisme, they will have trouble to find any opponent willing to wait to be kicked. If it happens, it will be a bait.
Your unit is cumbersome and could be outmaneuvred and flank-charged.

And, yes, the hydra banner is not cost-effective except with a cavalry unit. See my relevant "Boot Camp" thread, accessible through the D.R.A.I.C.H., in the tactics forum.

Dannyisevil · Post by **Dannyisevil** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:03 am

Large unit of Corsairs with lot of killingblows sounds fun.
It can kill a lot.
Let say 7 corsairs in combat (1 champion) is 29 attacks.
It's depent who the corsairs fighting with but lets say first round of combat you have 75% hits.
24 hits means about 4 killingblows.
Yes you can put charackters in it too make it more killing blow of it.
This make the unit more exspensive.

You loose the CoB then the unit trick is lost?
Corsairs are frenzy because of the banner, that make them harder too move.
Rear and flank charge of the enemy can be deadly, even you put Lokhir + assassin in it.

Demetrius · Post by **Demetrius** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:02 am

To be honest anything more than 21 (7 by 3) with FC and SSS, backed by the cauldron, would be unnessasary, especially when the unit is frenzied and can be baited easily. On the charge, 7 corsairs give out 29 KB attacks. Thats enough IMO.

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:49 am

The scenario you presented would actually only result in 22 killing blow attacks or 29 non-killing blow attacks. Which is still lots!

Izirath · Post by **Izirath** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:37 am

A deathstar is usually a one-trick-pony. Which means that as soon as you've used it once, the opponent can find a way to go around it (baiting would be the easiest in this scenario). Still it's a formidable force.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:43 am

Seems a little improbable to expect to charge with an infantry unit in the modern game dominated by cav, flying monsters and strikes first stuff.

To add flanking units and screens only highlights the problems of the unit IMO. It's still light infantry and will struggle vs t4 troops.

Corsairs are not worth playing in more than 10's. If you really want more, just add another 10 rather than more ranks or characters.

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:53 am

I use a unit of 14 with full command and the Sea Serpent Standard, deployed 7 x 2. I have found it to be far more cost effective in the returns it grants than a unit of 21 which I have also tried.

I don't use it all the time but it is a fun unit to play with and has reaped some benefits of note in various games. What I find quite encouraging is when backed by the various COB blessings it does have a good life expectancy. 4+ against shooting backed by a 5+ ward generally ensures it gets where I want it to be almost intact.

Deathstars I have found to be nothing more than a romantic notion, or a theoryhammer fans wet dream. The modern games, as has been quite rightly pointed out to you, allows for avoidance of such units in a lot of cases. Certainly against infantry deathstars. IMO the game is about balance. Balanced armies which can perform consistently is where you should be looking.

Yes it is nice to win big, but I find a better game is a close game where you win by a small margin as invariably both players have had a good time.

Post by **Calisson** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:56 pm

I was preparing to welcome this new guy on the block and his purple spiral with his so wise answers. What? total posts is... 9222, his not new... hey, that's DA!

What happened to your black and gold symmetric shield?
How come did you turn to contemporary art?

OK, back to topic, I expanded a little bit on the "death star" in may latest (and last) Boot Camp thread.

I concluded that anything pretending to be a corsair death star should be brought along with the CoB and some banner, among which the SSS is the most cost-effective. It could probably be easily avoided, being an infantry troop.
Fortunately, it is one of the cheapest "death star", so there must be pts left over for other melee units, all the more that the COB can apply to other troops if the corsairs are avoided.
Finally, the concept of "death star" would be so much downsized for just a very effective melee unit that it barely can be called death star at all.
How would you call a corsair mild Death star?
A Death Starfish?

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:23 pm

Calisson wrote:What happened to your black and gold symmetric shield?
How come did you turn to contemporary art?

Smoke and mirrors mate. Read my signature. All will be revealed in due course