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Quick Response Force (QRF) of Karond Kar 
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Cold One Knight
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Good Evening all,

After reading 'Defenders of Ulthaun' and realising that the Asur sometimes raid us! :shock: In an attempt to sink ships and prevent the Corsairs from raiding. I started to imagine how the Drachau of Karond Kar would react to such an insult and the force he'd assemble to fight them. It being a raid he'd have very little time to knock up a strong force ie no temple (cant get an appointment to see the head of the temple :D ) and no BG as they are in Naggorond and cant arrive in time, but it is Karond Kar so there are a few monsters and mercenaries knocking around :D

So the list is this,

Nerein the Cruel - Drachau of Karond Kar
Dreadlord, Black Dragon, Caledors Bane, AoD, 2 Null Talismens, 2 RHB

Mistress Vyela
Lv 1 Scroll Caddy

2x10 RXB, Shields and Musician
14 Corsairs, FC, BoM
14 Corsairs, FC, SSS
2x5 DR, Musician
2x5 Harpies
2XCoC (crewed by the Drachau's sons)
War Hydra

Total; 1995pts

The Drachau probably wouldn't respond personally but I'm just imagining him so insulted by the Asur raiding him that he'd have to see them off himself or lose face in court (also an excuse for the Dragon :D ) . The Drachau would go on one flank the hydra on the other with a unit of DR each. The Corsairs and Chariots would hold the centre screened by the Harpies while the RXB would protect each side of the centre.

I'm actually thinking of using this force as I've fallen both for the idea and the theme of it. My models are either Corsairs or RXB with the new Kraken Shields so on the taletop I think it would look really good.

I'm really keen for C+C on the list and on the idea, so please feel free to tear it apart, comments will only make it into a stronger list. Its just a fun list no tournements in mind.

My thanks as always D.Net.
Chris

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Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:44 pm
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Sweet idea for a theme! Just one thought, is that actually what the Drachau is called or did you make it up (I haven't read that book)?

The list looks quite solid, though I find Potion of Strength and Caledors Bane work best together (so you have 2 turns of big strength), especially if you charge something huge like a giant etc. The core of the force looks pretty solid and 'normal' what with the DR, RXB and Harpy units. I would consider COK instead of 2 COCs but that is up to you!


Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:30 pm
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Cold One Knight
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Thanks mate glad you like it. The Drachau's name is mentioned at the start of the third Darkblade novel. The CoC's are in purely because I love the look and the impact they can have whilst supporting the corsairs. Combined I think they will hit extremely hard :)

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Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:51 pm
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You're right, chariots combined do it extremely hard. At least when you roll high on the Impact Hits. But COK are just as 'ard and don't suffer a horrible splintery death from S7+ blows. I guess it's a personal choice, but since both are affected by stupidity, I guess they're both as likely to mess your game up at the worst moment ;)


Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:54 pm
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Cold One Knight
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The worst thing suffering from stupidity will be the guy moving the models! :D

The new revised list is this:

Nerein the Cruel - Drachau of Karond Kar
Dreadlord, Black Dragon, Caledors Bane, AoD, 2 Null Talismens, 2 RHB

Mistress Vyela
Lv 1 Scroll Caddy
(Daughter of Nerein who has dabbled in magic as an interest but is in no way a true sorceress. She has become bored with Court politics and so disobeyed her father and snuck along for some real excitment!)

2x10 RXB, Shields and Musician

12 Corsairs, Musician
(Crew from the "Leviathon")

12 Corsairs, Musician
(Crew from the "Sea Kraken")

2x5 DR, Musician
2x5 Harpies

2XCoC
(Crewed by the young nobles trying to make names for themselves)

7 Shades with GW's
(scouts who have been tracking the enemy since they landed!)

War Hydra

Total; 1995pts

Is this any good? What changes would people make to it?

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Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:27 am
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I still stand by what I said earlier, if you charged an enemy big monster (or hero on dragon) with your Black Dragon, you will want to kill their monster before they kill yours. Therefore, I would take CB and the PoS, so you have 2 turns of high strength.

In you charge, +3S from Caledors Bane.
Second turn of the fight, +3S from Potion of Strength.

I'd drop the 2RBH and 1 NT for it.


Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:46 am
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:oops: Damn meant to change that in that, that will teach me not to proof read! :D I'll have to drop the 2 NT's for it though otherwise it takes him over his 100pt magic item allowance.

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Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:02 am
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I really like the fluff about the list. And finally, i have found someone who has a love of using chariots!!!

Overall though i think the list is pretty funky and hard hitting, the only thing that would worry me is failing one stupidity test and having your other chariot go charging in on its own. Thats the risk you have to take for 2d6+2 impact hits i suppose.

Regards

D


Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:48 am
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Smiler: Just remember that a S7 or above blow will instantly kill a chariot if it hits.


Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:01 pm
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@Dante - Thanks mate glad you liked it :D . I love the Chariots I found two in a small GW and havn't made a single list without them since. I know what you mean about stupidity, but I'm going with the no risk no reward approach. Each Chariot will be used in Conjungtion with a Corsair and RXB unit.

@Kinslayer - Thanks for the advice. I know the Chariots are vunerable to s7 but for 200pts I'm getting two hard hitting units that fit the fluff (I'm more into how an army looks on the table and then getting the tactics to suit). I can't think what I could replace them with as two COK units will cost a minimum of 135pts each and points are already tight.

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Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:26 pm
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So after reading DA's post on his Corsair tactics I've chopped and changed the list a little.

Nerein the Cruel - Drachau of Karond Kar
Dreadlord, Black Dragon, Caledors Bane, AoD, Potion of Strength, RXB

Mistress Vyela
Lv 1 Scroll Caddy
(Daughter of Nerein)

2x10 RXB, Shields and Musician

18 Corsairs, AHW's, FC, Sea Serpent Standard
(Crew from the "Leviathon")

2x5 DR, Musician, RXB's
2x5 Harpies

2XCoC
(Crewed by the young nobles trying to make a name for themselves)

6 Shades with AHW's
(scouts who have been tracking the enemy since they landed!)

War Hydra

Total; 1995pts

How does this list look? Just have to get Kinslayer to paint it for me :D and I can take it out for some 'field testing!'.

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Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:48 am
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I actually like the first list the best, the two corsair blocks keep the opponents on their toes (they also have no way of knowing which is the frenzied one in a closed list environment). However, the last list has scouts (1 point short for great weapons, how painful!), which makes the list overall more flexible.

It it were me, I'd forget about the rxb on the drachau and give those heavy weapons to the shades though, it makes them so much more of a threat.

Seems like a very fun list to play! You don't mind me stealing that shamelessly someday I hope?


Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:04 am
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@Thanatoz - I'm glad you like it :D In hindsight the RXB on the Dreadlord will probably not amount to much so your right it makes sense to give the Shades GW's instead. By the way feel free to use the list or the fluff I'm flattered you think its something worth stealing!

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Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:17 am
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If I ask, it's not stealing, it's borrowing :D

The RxB on the dreadlord will do some damage, and can be useful, but not as useful as getting toasted by the dragon's breath weapon. It can be useful for the occasional sniping, but overall I feel the GW will be more of a threat.

What I like the most on the list is it looks competitive (only testing will prove the real truth) yet doesn't rely on our fancy wargear items that some of my opponents keep nagging me about.

Hmm, perhaps I'll make a version of this list with a manticore and the addition of the pendant BSB or a hunter noble (seeing as I don't own a dragon), but then there comes that dreaded "shunned" wargear again.

EDIT: I'm also having trouble comparing the manticore to a dragon. A dragon is more of a hammer than a manticore, so I don't know if it will work in this list.


Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:42 pm
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Lol fair one :lol: Feel free then to borrow how you see fit! :D

Thanks for the compliment, I hope the list is competitive. I read all the post on magic items and the uber lists that were drawing groans from other gamers and I wanted a list that will be difficult to play against and also challange me to use it properly (thats why the Chariots havn't been replaced with a 2nd Hydra!) With the exception of the Dragon hopefully this wont be seen as too much off a 'groan' army. I also love the fluff! :D

I think the manticore could work but would need definately backup from something, maybe a master on DP or more harpies or even supported on the ground by DR with shields-combining these two could really be nasty. I'd say use COK but with 2 stupidity test already it may be tempting fate to throw in a third test. I'm very interested to see how a manti would fair though.

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Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:40 pm
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Problem is, assuming same wargear on the dreadlord, I'd save about 120 points by downgrading the dragon, not exactly something to buy a hammer for (except chariots, but those are already in abundance). The only way it could work, is to downgrade the dreadlord to a master, that would probably save enough points for an additional dark pegasus master.

Most likely something like
Master on Manticore, AoD, DP
Master on DP, Caledor's Bane, ES

Less survivable, but two flyers to divide the attention to where needed most, and probably more lethal against most targets when combi charging than the single dragon dreadlord.

Will have to think it over.

EDIt: sp


Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:55 pm
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Two flyers would be good but as you mentioned both are more vunerable than the Dragon but saying that, 2 targets does split the enemies attention and forces him to choose a target. DP could also be screened by Harpies.....

Personally I'll stick with the Dragon for the minute (don't own a mati yet!)but I'm keen to find out how 2 flyers would do!

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Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:29 pm
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If you could somehow get the points free, I would have included more Harpies as well. With it being a sea defence force, the Harpies hang around near the bays and so fit the theme perfectly. They are also great cheap screens, and perhaps alright in combat (at least in the flanks). I'd have 4x 5 in 2000 points if I had the models to allow. 2x 5 is really the minimum.


Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:34 pm
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I could drop the RXB's on the DR to get a third lot of Harpies in........

I'm leaning towards the 2nd version of the list with 2 units of Corsairs and 7 Shades, however whilst at the airport waiting I couldn't decide what to equip the Corsairs with.

If they have the Sea Serpent Standard its AHW all the way, but if I use the 2nd version with 2x12 Corsairs with musician, should I give them AHW or RHB's. I'm leaning toward RHB for the Stand and Shoot bonus it will give them and it will allow me to use them to bait for the Chariots and Hydra.

Any ideas?

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Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:03 am
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I assume the list is played mostly against High Elves anyway, which would suggest that those chariots are probably in their best space. Beyond that I have nothing really critical to say before I get to work.


Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:47 am
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I find the configuration in the second version the worst for the corsairs. If going for RHB, try getting 10. Dropping 4 corsairs and one shade in that list, would probably net you another harpy unit. However, I feel that you need some hitting power like from the SSS corsair unit in this list, as you already have dark riders, harpies and shades to perform similar actions than the RHB corsairs would.


Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:26 am
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@ Thanatoz - Ok retouched, fettled, tweaked and touched up the list :D Here goes;

Nerein the Cruel - Drachau of Karond Kar
Dreadlord, Black Dragon, Caledors Bane, AoD, Potion of Strength

Mistress Vyela
Lv 1 Scroll Caddy
(Daughter of Nerein)

2x10 RXB, Shields and Musician

14 Corsairs, AHW's, FC, Sea Serpent Standard
(Crew from the "Leviathon")

10 Corsairs, AHW's
(Crew from the 'Sea Kraken')

2x5 DR, Musician
2x5 Harpies

2XCoC
(Crewed by the young nobles trying to make a name for themselves)

6 Shades with GW's
(scouts who have been tracking the enemy since they landed!)

War Hydra

Total; 2000pts.

I know the smaller unit of Corsairs needs a musician but I cant find 5 points to spare, any ideas?

@Brokenstone - Thankyou for looking at the list. While the fluff is aimed at High Elves I'm hoping it will be competitive against most armies. Chariots appear to be viewed unfavourably but I want to try them as I love the models :D

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Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:42 pm
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Give the 10 corsairs RHB I'd say, and use them as a one line screen for the frenzied corsairs. As long as they are frenzied they are also ItP, so you can safely fall back or choose the stand and shoot. It also protects your combat squad a bit more.

The only thing you could drop for the muso is a shade (there's really not much else to drop now isn't there?), unless you want to have one of the RXB squads lose a muso (they don't need it as much as the corsairs).

If dropping a shade, you free up 18 points, enough for:
- a muso on the small corsair squad
- a pair of rhb on the corsair champ (not going to do much, but a nice point filler)
- an additional corsair for Leviathan crew. They become 15 strong then, 2 lines of 7 with extra body) OR 3 lines of 5 against more heavily armoured opponents, in which case the static combat resolution might be more useful than the extra attacks. Reform as necessary during the battle.


Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:13 pm
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Lol thanks we are drawing to an almost final list :D . Not sure about dropping the shade, will that not make them to vunerable to taking casualties? Dropping the shade is what you would do I take it? Where would you stick the caddy?

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Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:56 pm
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I support Thanatoz.
5 shades, 6 shades, who cares, they are going to die anyway.
Side-charging, they need not to be more than 5.
And they should never charge unless on the side or on weak opponents.

The caddy goes with MXB or, much better, deep inside a wood.
Give her Fire Lore and cast if you can.


Let's analyse the list.
SSS corsairs to take care of masses, MXB to thin them down, MSU to get side-charge.
Many units to take care of MSU opponents.
Dragon, hydra & shades to take care of elites.
Dragonlord to take care of any ethereal.
Chariots and MXB to take care of ASF.
Chariots, hydra and dragon to take care of Fear.
Scroll caddy to take care of magic, along with many quick chargers.
Corsairs & hydra to take cover from shooting, along with many quick chargers.
RHB corsairs to get rid of fast chargers, which are not a liability.
Many quick chargers to track the elusive.

It seems that your list meets the criteria for a balanced list.
Only weakness I see is against ethereal units, but that should not be a problem against usual armies.
Magic resistance is weak as well, and this could prove annoying.
Playing against ASF HE, you'll suffer from ASF.

You'll have a strong psychology phase, a very good movement phase, quite a good melee phase, a weak missile phase and a non-existent magic phase.

Your list should be great to play with and against.
You're added to the Brotherhood's army lists. ;)

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Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:36 pm
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