Tactics Question of the Week #7!

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Tactics Question of the Week #7!

Post by Azure »

First off, for those who aren't aware. Every week a member of the community will post a tactics question to the masses. If you are interested feel free to either PM me or post in this thread. If you have any questions or comments on the question feel free to ask them. Criticism is always welcome.

The links to previous issues of “Tactics Question of the Week” threads can be found below:
#1: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=60560
#2: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=60625
#3: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=60840
#4: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=60931
#5: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=61022
#6 http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=61131

So, without further ado I present to you on behalf of Ehakir, a new plight for the Druchii!

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Direct Link: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/A ... hpart8.jpg

Rocks near the Steam Tank are impassable terrain and the terrain the shades are in is difficult terrain that does not block line of sight but does give them a -1 to hit cover save.

It was the left flank of the table, and the Dark Elf troops were not needed to support the center. If the units would just stand their ground they would surely be slaughtered by the empire troops as they had a very powerful charge. The Steam Tank had lost no wounds so far, just like all the other troops on the field. This is the Dark Elf turn 1. The distance between the Knights and Left Warriors is about 12", and the Tank kept about the same distance to the right warriors. Nobody has taken a terror test yet for the tank, and the Shades aren't within 6"as well.

Army Lists


Druchii

20 Dark Elf Warriors, Shields and Full Command
20 Dark Elf Warriors, Shields and Full Command
10 Shades with great weapons.
15 Executioners with Full command.

Empire

10 Non Inner Circle Knights with Full Command. 1+ Armor save, charge 14 inches etc. They have Lances. Strength 3, Toughness 3, WS 4 and Leadership 8
=> Ld 8 confirmed.
S4 if they are "special" inner circle knights, or S3 if "core" regular knights. It does not change much the issue of the charge!

In addition, any knight unit may have a magic banner with the regular standard bearer.
The banners which may have an impact here are:
- fear-causing when charging
- add 1D3" to charge movement

Such a large unit is worth 270 pts or up to 350 pts with "inner circle" option and magical banner. Juicy as well!


1 Steam Tank. This monstruosity weighs in at 300 points and since it is a war machine you can only get those VP if you take it down to 0 wounds. It has Toughness and Strength 6, 10 Wounds and a 1+ armor save. It causes terror and is unbreakable. => confirmed.

Breakdown of how the steam tank works. At the start of your turn you can decide how many steam points to generate. This is a number between 1 and 5. => you can select 0 and not generate anything, therefore no test. The Empire player will often do that when the machine is down to 5 or less hp left. He will not suicide a 1hp machine!
After choosing the number roll a d6 and add it to the steam points generated. If this number is above the steam tanks remaining wounds, something bad has happened and the steam tank essentially misfires. For this example, assume that the steam tank player will play it safe and generate 4 steam points.

A steam tank can either move 3 inches per steam point used, => yes
turn 90 degrees per steam point, => no, the ST moves like a chariot, i.e. it could wheel 360° twice for free if it moves barely 3"!
or fire its onboard cannon for 2 steam points. => yes, and it can shoot with no penalty even after moving/wheeling. As it is a large unit, it can shoot even in melee above the unit engaged!
This cannon has a 90° frontal LOS.
Unlike other cannons, this cannon has no breath template option, but when shooting, any unit in contact of the front of the canon suffers 1D3 S2 no save "vapor" burns.

It also has a steam gun that uses the breath weapon template and I believe is... Strength 3 no armor saves. => for a cost of 1 steam point. Strength 2, no armour save. The steam gun is in the turret, so it has 360° LOS and can shoot when the STank is in melee, including on the unit engaged against the STank.

If anyone has any confirmation on how the steam gun works that would be fantastic. => my pleasure to participate.
When charging => it needs to have the target in the usual 90° LOS,
the Steam tank does D3 S6 impact hits per steam point used for the charge => in addition to the 1D3 impact.
Note it does not necesarily need to move the full 15 inches to receive these impact hits. (For example, if a Steam Tank used 4 points of steam to charge a unit that was 2 inches away from it, the steam tank would still do 4d3 impact hits => + 1d3 for a total of 5d3 impact hits).
In Combat the Steam Tank is hit automatically and only has a chance to attack during the controllers turn. "Grinding" is what the steam tank does when it isn't charging and does D3 S6 impact hits per steam point used.
=> if failing charge, the STank will move its full steam movement, not half of it (similar to a flying unit).
=> the STank cannot pursue at all.

quote="Lakissov" One comment about the rules that I'd add is that the steam tank can't move through difficult terrain at all - it is impassable for the tank. => confirmed.


Edit: Is this way of giving stats working for everyone?
... Ehakir and everyone else feel free to jump in if I missed anything or failed in any other way. So, what would you all do?

Edit: Is this way of giving stats working for everyone? They took down the stat lines from the GW website apparently to make my life a bit harder ><

Have fun with it,
-Rex
Last edited by Azure on Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Lakissov »

One comment about the rules that I'd add is that the steam tank can't move through difficult terrain at all - it is impassable for the tank.

I will post my solution later - need to think about it for some time.
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Post by Ehakir »

The knights were just normal knights, not Inner Circle, so S3 instead of S4 ;)
You are right about the Steam gun. It costs 1 steam point by the way.
And with the grinding and impact hits the stank gets an additional +D3 S6 hits, no matter how much steam points he used.

My solution in this case was to run the left warriors up to the knights out of the 90 degree arc of sight of the steam tank to make him charge them with his knights after which I would flee and flank charge with the other warriors that I had moved a bit backwards and turned to face the board's edge.
The executioners went for the tank and I got the chance for a juicy flank charge on it if I had not failed my terror test in that battle...
The knight trick worked however :D
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Re: Tactics Question of the Week #7!

Post by Calisson »

10 Knights with Full Command. 1+ Armor save, charge 14 inches etc. They have Lances. Strength 4, Toughness 3, WS 4 and Leadership 8
=> Ld 8 confirmed.
S4 if they are "special" inner circle knights, or S3 if "core" regular knights. It does not change much the issue of the charge!

In addition, any knight unit may have a magic banner with the regular standard bearer.
The banners which may have an impact here are:
- fear-causing when charging
- add 1D3" to charge movement

Such a large unit is worth 270 pts or up to 350 pts with "inner circle" option and magical banner. Juicy as well!


1 Steam Tank. This monstruosity weighs in at 300 points and since it is a war machine you can only get those VP if you take it down to 0 wounds. It has Toughness and Strength 6, 10 Wounds and a 1+ armor save. It causes terror and is unbreakable. => confirmed.

Breakdown of how the steam tank works. At the start of your turn you can decide how many steam points to generate. This is a number between 1 and 5. => you can select 0 and not generate anything, therefore no test. The Empire player will often do that when the machine is down to 5 or less hp left. He will not suicide a 1hp machine!
After choosing the number roll a d6 and add it to the steam points generated. If this number is above the steam tanks remaining wounds, something bad has happened and the steam tank essentially misfires. For this example, assume that the steam tank player will play it safe and generate 4 steam points.

A steam tank can either move 3 inches per steam point used, => yes
turn 90 degrees per steam point, => no, the ST moves like a chariot, i.e. it could wheel 360° twice for free if it moves barely 3"!
or fire its onboard cannon for 2 steam points. => yes, and it can shoot with no penalty even after moving/wheeling. As it is a large unit, it can shoot even in melee above the unit engaged!
This cannon has a 90° frontal LOS.
Unlike other cannons, this cannon has no breath template option, but when shooting, any unit in contact of the front of the canon suffers 1D3 S2 no save "vapor" burns.

It also has a steam gun that uses the breath weapon template and I believe is... Strength 3 no armor saves. => for a cost of 1 steam point. Strength 2, no armour save. The steam gun is in the turret, so it has 360° LOS and can shoot when the STank is in melee, including on the unit engaged against the STank.

When charging => it needs to have the target in the usual 90° LOS,
[edit courtesy of Mister Hat] The stank has to declare a charge just like everyone else. We get to declare a charge reaction.
It moves like a chariot with the exception that it always moves it's full distance even for a failed charge.

the Steam tank does D3 S6 impact hits per steam point used for the charge => in addition to the 1D3 impact.
Note it does not necesarily need to move the full 15 inches to receive these impact hits. (For example, if a Steam Tank used 4 points of steam to charge a unit that was 2 inches away from it, the steam tank would still do 4d3 impact hits => + 1d3 for a total of 5d3 impact hits).
In Combat the Steam Tank is hit automatically and only has a chance to attack during the controllers turn. "Grinding" is what the steam tank does when it isn't charging and does D3 S6 impact hits per steam point used.
=> if failing charge, the STank will move its full steam movement, not half of it (similar to a flying unit).
=> the STank cannot pursue at all.

quote="Lakissov" One comment about the rules that I'd add is that the steam tank can't move through difficult terrain at all - it is impassable for the tank. => confirmed.


Edit: Is this way of giving stats working for everyone?
=> much better than the hyperlinks!
Last edited by Calisson on Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by Mdk »

Like Ehakir, I'dd move the spearmen to the left and turn them so when they get charged the knights face a flank charge from the other spearmen unit. If the other spearmen get charged they flee and the knights face a flank charge from the first spearmen unit.

If the sptemtank tries to charge the spearmen unit 2 they flee aswell. Than he steamtank will get a flank charge from the shades with their STR 5 attacks and a rear charge from the executionars with their SRT 5 attacks. The steamtank cant charge the shades because they are in difficult terrain.

I fought a steamtank 2 weeks ago and my Executionairs made the bast chance to kill it or to take steam points so it would harm itself. They were backed up by a cauldron that provided them with and extra attck each. They took away 6 wounds from it but in the turn after that it grinded them to pieces. (a lot of D3 STR 6 attacks). It's a tough m***********r.

But this is how I would deal with this problem.

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Post by Xerasi »

But wouldn't the empire player then just declare a steam tank charge on warriors 1, and then either a knights charge on warrior unit 1 or two?

In the case that both units charge warrior unit one, it can either flee or hold. If it does either the steamtank will be blocking the warriors charge on the knights. and exes, and likely shades will be out of range (iirc the steam tank moves the full even on a failed charge). Then you've dealt with one or both his warrior units with time to regroup.

In the other case with Knights going after warriors 2 followed by steamtank against warriors 1, the only really important reaction is against the knights... And as far as I can see on the picture if they flee and knights get a failed charge, ST can still hit the other warrior unit, and knights would still be outside exes charge range. If they hold warriors will lose by a bit, but following round only a few shades will be able to hit their flank. (from the pic i guestimate 2). And following that Steamtank can come for support.

A last option for your opponent in this situation is only charging warrior unit 1 with his/her steamtank. Fleeing sends them off the flank, or out of the game for some time, whilst still protecting the knights. Knights can then wheel facing the exes threatening them, whilst ST causes terror checks and shoots....

My solution would rather be to move the exes a bit forward and angle them (so if the ST moves forward they'll be in charge range), push warrior unit 2 up to block STs approach, only allowing it to charge the warrior unit, whilst ensuring the flee paths will take them through difficult ground (stopping the steamtank short of the shades, allowing for a shade frontal and exe flank charge). Warrior unit 1 goes up so shades will be in range of a potential counter charge if knights charge the unit.

The final possibility that is allowed for the enemy is now a combined charge on Warrior 2, to which you flee. Possitioned correctly you flee away from the highest US not allowing any "enemy in the way"'s against the exes, and exposing knights flank to warriors and ST's to exes.
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Post by Calisson »

Nice problem!
I appreciate the simplicity of this week’s issue, and its pedagogical qualities:
excellent to teach D.netters about two of the greatest strengths of the Empire.

Also, I edited my previous post for more details on the STank.



Melee expectations for warriors:
Against save 1+ STank or Knights, the spears are likely not to achieve anything, especially if receiving the charge.
A warrior would hit on 4+, wound on 4+ and not save on a 1, i.e. 1/24 chances to kill a knight.
A Knight hits on 4+, wounds on 2+, saved on 6+ if selecting handweapon & shield. 1/2*5/6*5/6=0.34
its horse hits on 4+, wounds on 4+, saved on 4+ if selecting handweapon & shield. 1/2*1/2*1/2=0.125
for a total of 0.47 per model, i.e. 2 or 3 kills for the unit.
Expecting no kill from the warriors, the warriors lost 1 rank and the knights get numeric superiority for a total CR of 2 or 3. Warriors are very likely to flee and get overrun.
On following turns, the rate would decrease to 0.25 per model, i.e. 1 kill, i.e. knights would still win because of numeric superiority.

Flank-charge + 2 rank bonus (assuming 1 model is lost) + deny rank bonus = 3 SCR advantage for the side-charging warriors.
Warriors should win against Knights if able to flank-charge, due to SCR, but beware that both units have US 20 so a single kill tilts the balance by 2 (the kill and numeric superiority).

The concluding idea is that if you sacrifice one unit in order to gain a side charge for the other one, you win.


Melee expectations for shades and execs.
A STank is 80x120mm. Flank-charged, it will have 8 shades in contact or 5 Execs. All 5 rear-charging execs would hit.
All hits are automatic.
8 shades make 8/3 wounds, saved at 3+, result 8/9 hits, close to 1.
5 execs make 5/2 wounds, saved at 4+, result 5/4 hits, close to 1.

It will take a long time to kill the beast. And that is only if the terror test is passed.
But if you can manage to get in melee with both units, the hp of the ST will decrease, the lower the less dangerous it will remain, and as long as it is in melee, the ST cannot cause havoc in the rest of the battlefield, not even shoot a bullet as its LOS is limited to 90°.

As a conclusion, it is worth attacking the ST with both units, in order to get a large SCR which will compensate for the expected ACR losses and, more important, help not to autobreak to a US10 terror-causing unit.


Shooting expectations.
10 still shades shooting at a close large Stank hit on 2+, wound on a 6 and don't save on a 1. That's 20*5/6/6/6=0.46 wounds per turn.
Same shades shooting at knights hit on 3+, wound on 4+ and don't save on 1. That's 20*2/3/2/6=1.1 (thanks Xerasi for the double-check).
Here we see that it is better to go for a melee than just to shoot.

As a conclusion, heavy shooting can help to kill a severely wounded ST (I know that first-hand) but it is not the case presently.


Answer to the problem:
You need to position the two warrior units in such way that if the knights charge anything (and it flees to rally and fight another day), they would present a flank to the other unit.

You need to threaten the ST with a flank-charge from shades and a rear-charge from Execs.
MDK's diagram shows well that, however I'd rather have the warrior unit on the right much closer to the shades in order to guarantee a proper charging distance from the Execs.
Also, I don't want the STank not to charge, but to pass across the Execs charging range and position itself between the shades and the warriors, giving two terror tests and risking only shades' charge.

Don't forget to shoot with shades. Good chances of removing 1 SCR from knights is very nice, and 1/2 chances of removing 1 steam power is also rewarding!

Likely result:
If Knights charge either warrior unit, it will flee and hope rallying later, and the other one will get a winning flank-charge.
Except if the STank charges that other warrior unit, which will have to flee as well, renouncing a promising flank-charge... but allowing shades to flank-charge the Stank and execs to rear-charge it, in such way that the Stank cannon's LOS threatens no one but the warriors. If both units pass their terror test, the STank is doomed.

Empire's reaction.
A clever Empire player will not charge the warriors with the ST and get in position to risk a double charge from high strength foes.
So the warrior's trap for knights is likely to remain.
So a clever Empire player should not charge anything at all!

Instead, facing a situation like MDK showed, the Empire player could position carefully the STank to trigger terror tests from at least Execs and shades, willingly risking front charges from shades but not side ones and not rear charges from execs. He will get the double charge only if 4 tests are passed (2 for terror at 6", 2 for charging a fear-causing unit). In that position, the ST will use its last steam point to steam-burn either shades or execs (execs assumed to be the best choice). If in the process it is positioned towards the centre of the field, it will get the option to cannon-shoot at something else later.
Think about the ST getting between shades and execs, risking execs's flank-charge and shades front-charge. It will steam either one unit.

And the knights would move closer to the previous ST position, getting a chance to charge at anything, hence protecting the ST from a side-charge by the execs.

That could become next week's problem?

The Empire best troops can prove to be a very difficult challenge indeed. This is where you miss the Lore of Metal.
Last edited by Calisson on Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Xerasi »

Your shooting calc is wrong as you get 3+ to be 1/3 and not 2/3, so shooting should take care of a single knight (disallowing a rank bonus)

I also question the idea if a empire general will hold back, given that the DE doesn't need support on the center, the Empire general might very well tip it off if he wins the flank (and given the scenario I'd say it's possible in turn 3+

Carlison: the way you describe it seems to exclude the idea of a cross charge, that might be far more effective in keeping the empire players units safe... I'm also very worried at the damage that can be caused by not blocking the STs advance, as I suggest warriors to do... It would be able to move all the way down to the side of the shades (outside exe charging range) and still fire it's steam gun... likely forcing both a terror and a panic test...
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Post by Master of arneim »

As always vs the empire it is hard to play against. I think that in this case the real game breker should be a Rbt on this side, or even one being able to shoot on the steam tank or the knights. If not, your arguments above about baiting are surely great (expecially the "speartrap" shown above) but they will unlikely work.

Without any pressure on the knights or the steam tank (excluding those 20 shots at S3) the empire has no gain in charging (as said by Calisson and here I'd discuss this idea a bit further). I'll assume that the De plays as MDK posted above and considering that the rbts are out from the game, excluding the rest of the army.

The empire player could:
- move back the templars, staying out from the charge of the spears
- move the steam tank on the right flank of the executioners passing from the north above the rocks forcing a terror test and obviously leaving no room for excaping
or
- move the steam tank risking 5 steam points and travelling 15" straight ahead, staying between the shades and the middle spear block, being out from the charge range of the executioners and forcing two terror tests. Then it could face the left spearblock or the executioners as it wishes, ready to safely charge in the next turn. A charge with the shades could be feared but I think that moving 15", the tank should be able to see either the shades (on his front) and the rear of the middle spearmen.

With this in mind I think that a couple of sacrifices are needed in order to stop at least the steam tank from wiping out the entire army: I'd move the left block straight in front of the knights, forcing them to do a charge if they want to avoid mine. The middle spearblock should align in front of the tank, blocking his path. The executioners should move as pointed out by MDK, but turning less toward the left, leaving a view on the right side to be sure to charge if the tank moves behind the rocks on their side. This time the empire player could risk both the charges: the templars can do it without any risk (even if they lost a man due to the shades) being able to win the combat by 2-3 (as Calisson said). Still the spears should get the charge, not running away. With a bit of luck you lose the combat by 2 and could even pass the test. That would mean covering the flank (still risking 100 pts if the enemy breaks them). On the other side the spears should keep the charge of the tank: this is important as the opponent could fail to understand it, thinking that you'll flee, so being able to run 12" and being convinced that your poor turning with the executioners will leave them too far away to get the charge. So getting the charge will mean losing half of the unit, but this will stop the tank straight in front of your executioners.

Comments: this idea is valid until you do not flee from the terror. To reduce the chance to lose some panic/terror checks I suggest to move the executioners so that they'll be more than 6" away from the tank when it stops fighting the spears and surely 6" away from the spears so that if they flee from the combat will not cause the panic on the executioners.

About the situation in the other parts of the table that Xerasi presented (assuming the scheme that MDK posted), I still think that charging for the empire player would not turn on his side, as the trap is clear and the results in charging in the next turn will become a big loss for his troops so that he should prefer not to charge and wait for better times and maybe for something better in the middle. Then both the empire and the De have quite the same amount of points invested on this side, so there isn't a real loss for the rest of the army for both the factions.

A personal note: it is interesting seeing as many users are starting to calculate the chance of winning/losing the combat with average results. This is very important in my opinion and it is the base of a correct tactical thought. Congratulations to everyone.
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

I would do as follows:

1) Keep the spears positioned where they are. If the knights charge and/or steam tank charge, I will simply flee. Right now, the spears are far enough away that they are basically guaranteed to escape. If only one spear unit has to flee, in my next turn, the other spear unit will charge the knights.

2) Move the executioners as shown in MDKs diagram to threaten the STank. If the STank advances, in my following turn I would attempt to charge with both the Executioners and the Shades. If nothing else, this could cause the Empire player to hold back with the STank. And if only the knights charge, the two units of spears should be able to handle them pretty well.

3) Shoot the knights with the Shades. If I could do even a single casualty, it could tempt me to stand on a charge reaction if only the knights charged one of the spear units, since at that point the spears would start with a +2 edge in unit strength, and the resulting combat would be close enough that could make a difference.
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Post by Mister hat »

As per MDK's reaction but I would be tempted to move the shades forward to bait and redirect the stank, protecting the warrior block from a 15" charge.
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

Mister Hat wrote:As per MDK's reaction but I would be tempted to move the shades forward to bait and redirect the stank, protecting the warrior block from a 15" charge.


I'm not sure this would work against the STank. If I recall correctly, it does not declare a charge as such, but merely moves and counts as charging if it contacts the enemy. The upshot is that I don't think that you can force a STank to charge after a fleeing unit. I could be wrong, but I think that if you moved the shades up to serve as bait, if they fled then the STank could move towards and charge the spear unit instead of being drawn off by the fleeing Shades.
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Post by Sulla »

Unless we can generate some pressure on the empire player by doing some wounds to the tank by shooting (doable; the shades should be able to causea couple of armour save rolls per turn), then the empire players only has to fear the exies with the tank.

So his priority should be to hurt the executioners with the tank (firstly from range, then with a combat) while threatening the spears with the knights but not committing. This is because he doesn't need to risk a failed charge and countercharge so can wait till they get close enough to guarantee a good chance of a run down even if they flee. The tank has no fear from the spears; they can't hurt it, it's unbreakable and they will surely be smashed in it's turn by grinding. Neither does it really have to fear the shades in combat. They generate almost no ACR or SCR and will certainly be autobreaking next turn after they charge.

So, bearing this in mind, we need to buy time for the exies to get into play against the tank; we only get one chance. If we don't get the charge, they will likely get smashed by impact grinding. Even if they flee, they will never get another chance to charge.

My strategy would be to play out the clock basically on this flank.Assuming the map is to scale, keep the spears where they are; about 10" away from both the tank and the knights. This move is to get me into charge range next turn but virtually ensure I can flee out of charge range if either is charged.
The executioners will wheel forward to threaten a charge on the tank if it emerges from cover. If it stays where it is all game, I will leave them there to threaten.
The shades stay where they are and shoot the tank all game if neccessary. An unlucky armour save or two and the empire player will find his tank a more risky proposition to use. 4 wounds and it's almost impossible.
Generally speaking, my plan is to force the empire player to take some risks. The flank is fairly even in points so if he does nothing, or just shoots, it is unlikely to influence the battle at all (and I'll tell him that). He has to come forward and that's when his only real weakness (lack of units) can be used against him.
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

sulla wrote:Assuming the map is to scale, keep the spears where they are; about 10" away from both the tank and the knights. This move is to get me into charge range next turn but virtually ensure I can flee out of charge range if either is charged.


I have to agree with Sulla. The Druchii player needs to put some pressure on the knights to do something, and moving up into charge range with the spears would serve that purpose (it looks to me like the spearmen are currently outside their charge range to the knights). At the same time, as Sulla also points out, the spears should be in a position where they can escape if they choose to flee as a charge reaction.
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Post by Niceas »

The Sulla strategy is relying on your opponent being unwilling to commit. It is nearly impossible to get a flank charge on the knights if he commits to a charge, as if you flee, he stalls out after 3", and the likelyhood is that his unit will not be presenting a flank assuming that the picture is representative of the actual board edge. You will have to be very careful positionally in order to be able flee as a reaction without running off the board.

I almost think that a better strategy would be to withdraw and utilize the dual bottlenecks to limit my opponent's ability to enter the battle. If you keep the Execs where they are, you force the empire player into the upalatable decision of trying to advance through the narrow opening or to sit there the whole game shooting at them. If you back the spears up, you can again force them to consider braving the two bottlenecks.

If I was the Empire player and faced with this scenario, I would seize the initative and charge the warriors, position the steam tank so that it can hit the shades with the steam gun, and wait for the DE player to be forced to commit. When that happens, mop up what remains.
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Master of arneim
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Post by Master of arneim »

In my opinion there is no pressure in moving ahead the spears "threathening" the templars with a charge from 10". The empire player will move back his knights, surrounding the executioners with the steam tank, or as already said, going in the middle at full speed. If this happens you can say goodbye to the executioners or (in the second option) be sure to be broken on the left side by a double charge from the steam tank and the templars both on the spears.
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Post by Mister hat »

Dyvim Tvar wrote:I'm not sure this would work against the STank. If I recall correctly, it does not declare a charge as such, but merely moves and counts as charging if it contacts the enemy.


I enjoy these threads, they make you think about obscure rules!

The stank has to declare a charge just like everyone else. We get to declare a charge reaction.

It moves like a chariot with the exception that it always moves it's full distance even for a failed charge.

So, you can bait and flee with the shades, and if done well it will protect the flank of the other warrior unit.
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Dyvim tvar
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

Good to know. Although I have most of the army books, I don't actually own a copy of te current Empire book. I think I am remembering the rules for the STank from the prior version.
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Post by Azure »

FYI Dyvim you were infact thinking of last edition. You could overrun/pursue into it and in its turn it could move out of combat, charge back in and grind.

Also, we are still looking for a new tactics question if anyone has an idea. Im sure I can dig one up if no one has any ideas but I was hoping to get the public involved in both sides of the discussion.

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Lakissov
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Post by Lakissov »

Actually, I think I have one that might be interesting, so I'd like to make #8
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