Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:28 am



Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
500 point w/Hydra? 
Author Message
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 1:17 am
Posts: 23
Greetings,

I am brand new and have yet to play my first match. I am in the process of assembling and painting my army. That being said, I was thinking about putting a hydra in my first army just so I can start playing ASAP. The guys at GW say it is overpowered and a "jerk" move to do this. What do you guys think? My personal take on things is this. If it is in the game and doesn't break the rules, then it is perfectly fine. On the other hand, I do not want to make people mad and not want to play with me.

So, here is my list that I came up with.

Hero: Master: Heavy Armor, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak 90
Core: 10 Repeater Crossbowmen 100
17 Spearmen: Shields, Full Command 134
Rare: Hydra 175

Total: 499

Do people really get angry when people put hydras in 500 point games? If it is that big of a deal, then I will not field it.

Thanks


Fri May 22, 2009 2:36 pm
Profile
Cold One Knight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:45 am
Posts: 202
Location: Feeding my cold one with baby dwarves..
Post 
It is TOOO BIG of a deal... Since opponents have trouble downing it in +2000 pts games in 500 pts it is a to hard of a cookie.

It is like you say to your opponent " Hey mate we'll play a match and I will win!" situation..

My suggestion is... paint more models before people start hating you. :twisted:

_________________
(\__/)
(O.o )
(> < ) This is the Assassin Bunny.
He has been specially trained by "the Old man of the Mountain".
He looks cute and than bites off your aorta when you least expect it.. ;)


Fri May 22, 2009 3:35 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 am
Posts: 1138
Location: Located
Post 
It really depends on your hydrae-rolls if you ask me. I have managed multiple times to charge the beast in a single rank of knights to be broken in the continuing combat phase...
But on the whole: yes, he can be very annoying at low point games. A nice way to discover if your army is cheesy is to swap sides. Let the opponent play with your list and see how hard it is to defeat.
By the way, if you opponent plays with 2 tooled up vampires and loads of ghouls/skeletons/zombies and raises 20/turn at 500 points, you are enabled to take the hydra :lol:

_________________
"Ceterum censeo Ulthuan esse delendam"
-Ehakir

3/4 of games are won by deathstars. Copy this into your signature if you still use real tactics to win.


Fri May 22, 2009 6:25 pm
Profile
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:06 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Bay Area, California
Post 
I'd replace it with a unit of knights or shades to be fair.


Fri May 22, 2009 10:06 pm
Profile WWW
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:31 pm
Posts: 3023
Location: The Tower of Dust
Post 
The thing is a pain in the bottom to put together and paint anyway, so an RBT or a special choice would be a better idea.

_________________
"Luck is the residue of design"


Fri May 22, 2009 10:44 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:56 am
Posts: 2261
Location: Flying my manticore 'Bloodmaw', looking for prey.
Optimo wrote:
Do people really get angry when people put hydras in 500 point games? If it is that big of a deal, then I will not field it.

Thanks
Potentially, yes. Why not discuss with your opponents what sort of things will be acceptable in the upcoming battles? Things like chaos chariots, Hydra, manticore masters, gunlines can really ruin things. IMO 500pt games are about learning the ins and outs of the basic game so all core mixes are usually the best. Anything goes at 500pts frequently turns into rock, paper, scissors and that's no fun when you choose wrong.

_________________
ImageImage
http://urialsulla.mybrute.com


Sat May 23, 2009 3:21 am
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:59 am
Posts: 1004
Location: Dunedin, NZ.
Post 
I would take the Hydra in a 500pt game.... If and only if I was wearing a cunning disguise so no-one at my gaming club would recognise me and lynch me afterwards for playing a monster like that in such a small game.

I agree with the others definately a unit of knights or some Shades and Harpies would be alot fairer.

_________________
Join the Shrine of the Serpent today!
Brotherhood of the Coast!

Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy

The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.


Sat May 23, 2009 3:28 am
Profile
Noble
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:34 pm
Posts: 424
Post 
I mentioned a list very similar with a Hydra at 500pts to my frequent opponents. They didn't take it too well; one walked away waving his arms, one looked like he went into shock, and the third tried to hit me upside the head with the BRB.

If you are trying to be friendly, don't use a hydra at 1000 points or less. A lot of people are still learning at that level and either don't have the skill to beat it and the rest of the army as well or don't have access to the models they need in order to kill it.

_________________
"Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Dragons, For You Are Crunchy And Taste Good With Ketchup"

My motto: Whether I win, lose, or draw the game; I win as long as my opponent has pulled their hair out by the end of the game. :twisted:

Honoring Khaine since March 2003.


Sat May 23, 2009 3:39 am
Profile
Malekith's Personal Guard
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:22 pm
Posts: 924
Location: Rallying Team Druchii.net
Post 
I ponce played a guy using a steam tank in a 500 pt game... it was balancing out the lvl3 wizard i was fielding (campaign item)

didn't have much of a game in the end - i wasnt getting out of my wood and he didnt want to come round for me to smack him.

Personally - i wouldn't have a problem with a hydra in 500pts. But in general - it probably is too good.

_________________
Name: Khalia D'Vaarko (meaning: Khalia, property of Vaarko)
Age: 210
Height/Weight: 5'6", 8 stone
Other: no distinguishing features, barring the brand of a great house left wrist.
Class: Mage
Equipment: Robes, Dagger, Staff
Skills: Power of Ulgu, Power of Chamon
Stats: Ws3, S3, T3, D4, I5

lrnec wrote:
Reality and truth is more brutal than almost any fantasy game


Sat May 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Profile
Corsair
Corsair
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8714
Location: Hag Graef
Post 
Optimo wrote:
Greetings fellow Druchii,

I am brand new to the hobby. I am to the point now where I am trying to choose a nice, balanced beginners list so I can start playing.
(quoted from your other thread).

Hi Optimo and welcome in D.net.

If I may provide an advice which would help you to win without looking cheesy, your list would become nice, balanced and adapted to beginners:

replace the hydra with two units of Dark Riders. You can take two units of 5 naked DR for 90pts each, drop 1 warrior and you're good to go.
If you want to give one of these units some MXB, drop a few more warriors including the champion (you don't need him).

By doing so,
- you'll appear friendly (you have only core troops and a single, lowest cost hero).
- you will learn how to use DR, which are one of the most useful units in the game.
- DR are more powerful in smaller games than in bigger games, and they are very flexible to use. You'll learn quickly how to win with them.
- You'll get the true Druchii spirit.

That would be better than the hydra, with which you will certainly win most small games but learn nothing by doing so, and it will hamper your future ability to succeed in bigger games. It will also discourage your partners to play Warhammer, if they feel there's no hope.

Oh, before you start gluing and painting your models, it is not a bad idea to consider providing your Crossbowmen with shields and a musician. Especially in small games.

_________________
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}


Sat May 23, 2009 5:09 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:05 am
Posts: 190
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Post 
I feel that whether or not to take a Hydra in 500 pts depends on the people you will be playing against. If you are playing friendly games against folks who just want to push some toy soldiers around and throw a few fistfuls of dice, well then, take something else. But if you play against a bunch of hard gamers who take it all very very seriously indeed, then cheese out to your heart's content.

Neither way of playing is the 'one' way, nor is either the 'wrong' way. So long as everybody is on the same page, it's all good.

_________________
A missive from the desk of Kylekin, Prince of Nhaeroth, Land of the Setting Sun

8th ed stats (W/L/D)
DE: 1/0/0
DoC: 2/1/0
Empire: 0/1/0
WoC: 0/1/0


Sat May 23, 2009 10:38 pm
Profile
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:54 am
Posts: 13
Post 
Id play against a hydra in a 500 pt game.


Id never play that person again, but Id play that game.


Sun May 24, 2009 7:03 am
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:39 pm
Posts: 528
Location: Netherlands- Heerlen
Post 
As it already has been said a few times, a Hydra in 500pts will not make you a lot of friends. I'd replace the Hydra for 2x5 dark riders as Calisson said.

-Farodin

_________________
We are Druchii, the cold-hearted blades of destiny.
We shall cut through the world and bring forth Khaine's Kingdom...
...and all shall know their masters


Sun May 24, 2009 8:50 am
Profile WWW
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 1:17 am
Posts: 23
Post 
Thank you everyone for the advice! These forums are great!

I got the information I was looking for. I will not play the hydra unless my opponent will use similar hardcore tactics. I'm just gonna keep on assembling and painting and try to be patient.

Thanks again


Sun May 24, 2009 2:16 pm
Profile
Trainee Warrior
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:07 pm
Posts: 33
Post 
I agree dont use a Hydra in that small of a game wait for like 1ooo where its possible and more useible


Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:36 am
Profile
Noble
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 426
Post 
A good rule of thumb is what me and my friends do in 500 points, adapted from the old warband rules (no rules alterations for minimum size):

- At least 2 core
- Up to one special
- No rare (they don't go on patrol or skirmish battles period)
- Max 2 Heroes with a combined points cost of 150 points
- 0-1 War Machine, Chariot or Monster model
- Max 1 unit of flyers
- Use common sense

While for example with this rule it's still possible to play with 5 chaos knights and a chaos hero on jugger, common sense says not to do this (it's extremely hard in this size). And all armies have units like that. But that's depending on the opponent, have fun beforehand.

That being said, my list is something like this for 500 points:
- Hero on dark steed with heavy armour, SDC, Enchanted Shield and Caledor's Bane (general big things popper)

- Chariot (impact hits and T5 for a good price)
- 10 RHB Corsairs with muso or 10 RXB Warr with muso (some ranged support, corsairs extremely useful in this size due to the slavers rule)
- 5 shielded dark riders (well, I have to use them somewhere, and they form a nice bodyguard for my master)
- 5 harpies

Exactly 500 points, pretty reliable, but still very dark elfy...


Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:50 am
Profile
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:17 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Barnsley
Post 
i was going to use a list similar to this, mine was hydra, sorc with dagger a block of warriors and dark riders for a small tourny at GW, it only worked out like that because thats all i have painted exept for COK and some black guard.

i couldnt go though because i had to go out at 7 and id have to leave at about 4 to get ready =[

id imagine it being neigh impossible to kill in 500 points, that coupled with a sorc @ dagger lol.

_________________
warhammer battle record:
Dark elves:
wins: 0
draws: 0
defeats: 0

Warhammer 40,000 battle record
Crimson fists:
wins: 3
draws: 1
loss: 1


Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:49 pm
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:23 pm
Posts: 649
Location: Norfolk, VA
Post 
I would play against your hydra list. And I am not just saying that because that because I am lucky to get any kind of game going even once a month.

My 500 point list would include 2 units of 5 DR with crossbows.
Dread lord on manticore

Alternately I would drop the manticore and go with as many L2 Sorceressess that I can field at 500 points along with 2-3 DR units w/ RXBs.

In either list your hydra would have nothing to charge since the lists are so mobile. By the time the manti charges into the Hydra the rest of your force would be destroyed and the Hydra should be softened up. Maybe combine the final charge with a few flank charges with the DR for kicks.

Also depending on the rules that you use, you still have to have 2 core choices and a general. I am not sure you would have very much else in the rest of your army.

_________________
Good, bad, I am the guy with the reapter bolt thrower.


Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:11 pm
Profile ICQ
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 10:09 am
Posts: 22
Location: Queensland Australia
Post 
Optimo wrote:
Thank you everyone for the advice! These forums are great!

I got the information I was looking for. I will not play the hydra unless my opponent will use similar hardcore tactics. I'm just gonna keep on assembling and painting and try to be patient.

Thanks again

If you get the hang of the patience thing let me know how you did it. ;)
Happy hunting


Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:56 pm
Profile
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 16
Post 
I would gladly face your hydra list, I play Chaos Dwarves, and well let me just say, I would take several of my 30 point bolt throwers....

but ya most people will think you are being cheesy, but I am used to playing games against people who cheese out their lists, and honestly for every cheese list, there is a way or several ways around it.


Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:43 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 20 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software