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500 point w/Hydra? 
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 1:17 am
Posts: 23

I am brand new and have yet to play my first match. I am in the process of assembling and painting my army. That being said, I was thinking about putting a hydra in my first army just so I can start playing ASAP. The guys at GW say it is overpowered and a "jerk" move to do this. What do you guys think? My personal take on things is this. If it is in the game and doesn't break the rules, then it is perfectly fine. On the other hand, I do not want to make people mad and not want to play with me.

So, here is my list that I came up with.

Hero: Master: Heavy Armor, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak 90
Core: 10 Repeater Crossbowmen 100
17 Spearmen: Shields, Full Command 134
Rare: Hydra 175

Total: 499

Do people really get angry when people put hydras in 500 point games? If it is that big of a deal, then I will not field it.


Fri May 22, 2009 2:36 pm
Cold One Knight
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It is TOOO BIG of a deal... Since opponents have trouble downing it in +2000 pts games in 500 pts it is a to hard of a cookie.

It is like you say to your opponent " Hey mate we'll play a match and I will win!" situation..

My suggestion is... paint more models before people start hating you. :twisted:

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Fri May 22, 2009 3:35 pm
Malekith's Best Friend
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It really depends on your hydrae-rolls if you ask me. I have managed multiple times to charge the beast in a single rank of knights to be broken in the continuing combat phase...
But on the whole: yes, he can be very annoying at low point games. A nice way to discover if your army is cheesy is to swap sides. Let the opponent play with your list and see how hard it is to defeat.
By the way, if you opponent plays with 2 tooled up vampires and loads of ghouls/skeletons/zombies and raises 20/turn at 500 points, you are enabled to take the hydra :lol:

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Fri May 22, 2009 6:25 pm
Black Guard
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I'd replace it with a unit of knights or shades to be fair.

Fri May 22, 2009 10:06 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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The thing is a pain in the bottom to put together and paint anyway, so an RBT or a special choice would be a better idea.

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Fri May 22, 2009 10:44 pm
Malekith's Best Friend
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Optimo wrote:
Do people really get angry when people put hydras in 500 point games? If it is that big of a deal, then I will not field it.

Potentially, yes. Why not discuss with your opponents what sort of things will be acceptable in the upcoming battles? Things like chaos chariots, Hydra, manticore masters, gunlines can really ruin things. IMO 500pt games are about learning the ins and outs of the basic game so all core mixes are usually the best. Anything goes at 500pts frequently turns into rock, paper, scissors and that's no fun when you choose wrong.


Sat May 23, 2009 3:21 am
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I would take the Hydra in a 500pt game.... If and only if I was wearing a cunning disguise so no-one at my gaming club would recognise me and lynch me afterwards for playing a monster like that in such a small game.

I agree with the others definately a unit of knights or some Shades and Harpies would be alot fairer.

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Sat May 23, 2009 3:28 am
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I mentioned a list very similar with a Hydra at 500pts to my frequent opponents. They didn't take it too well; one walked away waving his arms, one looked like he went into shock, and the third tried to hit me upside the head with the BRB.

If you are trying to be friendly, don't use a hydra at 1000 points or less. A lot of people are still learning at that level and either don't have the skill to beat it and the rest of the army as well or don't have access to the models they need in order to kill it.

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Sat May 23, 2009 3:39 am
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I ponce played a guy using a steam tank in a 500 pt game... it was balancing out the lvl3 wizard i was fielding (campaign item)

didn't have much of a game in the end - i wasnt getting out of my wood and he didnt want to come round for me to smack him.

Personally - i wouldn't have a problem with a hydra in 500pts. But in general - it probably is too good.

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Sat May 23, 2009 3:23 pm
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Optimo wrote:
Greetings fellow Druchii,

I am brand new to the hobby. I am to the point now where I am trying to choose a nice, balanced beginners list so I can start playing.
(quoted from your other thread).

Hi Optimo and welcome in D.net.

If I may provide an advice which would help you to win without looking cheesy, your list would become nice, balanced and adapted to beginners:

replace the hydra with two units of Dark Riders. You can take two units of 5 naked DR for 90pts each, drop 1 warrior and you're good to go.
If you want to give one of these units some MXB, drop a few more warriors including the champion (you don't need him).

By doing so,
- you'll appear friendly (you have only core troops and a single, lowest cost hero).
- you will learn how to use DR, which are one of the most useful units in the game.
- DR are more powerful in smaller games than in bigger games, and they are very flexible to use. You'll learn quickly how to win with them.
- You'll get the true Druchii spirit.

That would be better than the hydra, with which you will certainly win most small games but learn nothing by doing so, and it will hamper your future ability to succeed in bigger games. It will also discourage your partners to play Warhammer, if they feel there's no hope.

Oh, before you start gluing and painting your models, it is not a bad idea to consider providing your Crossbowmen with shields and a musician. Especially in small games.

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Sat May 23, 2009 5:09 pm
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I feel that whether or not to take a Hydra in 500 pts depends on the people you will be playing against. If you are playing friendly games against folks who just want to push some toy soldiers around and throw a few fistfuls of dice, well then, take something else. But if you play against a bunch of hard gamers who take it all very very seriously indeed, then cheese out to your heart's content.

Neither way of playing is the 'one' way, nor is either the 'wrong' way. So long as everybody is on the same page, it's all good.

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Sat May 23, 2009 10:38 pm
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:54 am
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Id play against a hydra in a 500 pt game.

Id never play that person again, but Id play that game.

Sun May 24, 2009 7:03 am
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As it already has been said a few times, a Hydra in 500pts will not make you a lot of friends. I'd replace the Hydra for 2x5 dark riders as Calisson said.


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Sun May 24, 2009 8:50 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 1:17 am
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Thank you everyone for the advice! These forums are great!

I got the information I was looking for. I will not play the hydra unless my opponent will use similar hardcore tactics. I'm just gonna keep on assembling and painting and try to be patient.

Thanks again

Sun May 24, 2009 2:16 pm
Trainee Warrior
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I agree dont use a Hydra in that small of a game wait for like 1ooo where its possible and more useible

Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:36 am
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A good rule of thumb is what me and my friends do in 500 points, adapted from the old warband rules (no rules alterations for minimum size):

- At least 2 core
- Up to one special
- No rare (they don't go on patrol or skirmish battles period)
- Max 2 Heroes with a combined points cost of 150 points
- 0-1 War Machine, Chariot or Monster model
- Max 1 unit of flyers
- Use common sense

While for example with this rule it's still possible to play with 5 chaos knights and a chaos hero on jugger, common sense says not to do this (it's extremely hard in this size). And all armies have units like that. But that's depending on the opponent, have fun beforehand.

That being said, my list is something like this for 500 points:
- Hero on dark steed with heavy armour, SDC, Enchanted Shield and Caledor's Bane (general big things popper)

- Chariot (impact hits and T5 for a good price)
- 10 RHB Corsairs with muso or 10 RXB Warr with muso (some ranged support, corsairs extremely useful in this size due to the slavers rule)
- 5 shielded dark riders (well, I have to use them somewhere, and they form a nice bodyguard for my master)
- 5 harpies

Exactly 500 points, pretty reliable, but still very dark elfy...

Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:50 am
Slave (off the Altar)

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i was going to use a list similar to this, mine was hydra, sorc with dagger a block of warriors and dark riders for a small tourny at GW, it only worked out like that because thats all i have painted exept for COK and some black guard.

i couldnt go though because i had to go out at 7 and id have to leave at about 4 to get ready =[

id imagine it being neigh impossible to kill in 500 points, that coupled with a sorc @ dagger lol.

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Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:49 pm
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I would play against your hydra list. And I am not just saying that because that because I am lucky to get any kind of game going even once a month.

My 500 point list would include 2 units of 5 DR with crossbows.
Dread lord on manticore

Alternately I would drop the manticore and go with as many L2 Sorceressess that I can field at 500 points along with 2-3 DR units w/ RXBs.

In either list your hydra would have nothing to charge since the lists are so mobile. By the time the manti charges into the Hydra the rest of your force would be destroyed and the Hydra should be softened up. Maybe combine the final charge with a few flank charges with the DR for kicks.

Also depending on the rules that you use, you still have to have 2 core choices and a general. I am not sure you would have very much else in the rest of your army.

Good, bad, I am the guy with the reapter bolt thrower.

Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:11 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Location: Queensland Australia
Optimo wrote:
Thank you everyone for the advice! These forums are great!

I got the information I was looking for. I will not play the hydra unless my opponent will use similar hardcore tactics. I'm just gonna keep on assembling and painting and try to be patient.

Thanks again

If you get the hang of the patience thing let me know how you did it. ;)
Happy hunting

Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:56 pm
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:56 pm
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I would gladly face your hydra list, I play Chaos Dwarves, and well let me just say, I would take several of my 30 point bolt throwers....

but ya most people will think you are being cheesy, but I am used to playing games against people who cheese out their lists, and honestly for every cheese list, there is a way or several ways around it.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:43 am
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