Dealing with Ethereal

[Niceas]

Hey all...

How do you all deal with armies that run a bunch of Ethereal models? One of my regular opponents has started running a bunch of the VC Hosts along with Wraiths, and unless I can break through on the Magic phase, I've been finding that I can't do anything to him. I could run a dread lord with a magic weapon but up until now that hasn't been necessary against any of my opponents.

Am I correct in understanding that the only magic we have that would affect the hosts and wraiths are spells and magic items? Gifts of Khaine, poisons, and Hydra and Dragon breath weapons do not count as magical for the purposes of damaging ethereal?

[Layne]

Correct indeed. Only weapons that have magic attacks. I say this because the magic weapon Lifetaker, and magic item Black Dragon's Egg or Potion of Strength don't give you magic attacks. Only a magic CC weapon does that. Gifts of Khaine are not magic, so they don't either.

So yeah - only magic or magic CC weapons can hurt ethereals. You can still beat them through static CR, don't forget. Ethereal armies are small and expensive, so you should be able to outnumber, outrank and outflank.

[Druchii77]

Our best answer to ethereals is the tank BSB which is a BSB noble on dark steed or cold one with sword of might or soul render and the pendant. His standard negates outnumber bonus and he has a nigh impenetrable armor/ward save meaning he simply needs to charge in and grind them down.

[Slanderbot]

Usually I just ignore them or feed them a cheap unit to grind against the whole game.

They only become a problem when they are threatening a key hammer/flanking unit that I can't protect.

If it comes to that then I just send a master to off them in CC, easy as that. I also rarely use magic so CC and SCR are my only options :O

[Tarantino]

Our best answer to ethereals is the tank BSB which is a BSB noble on dark steed or cold one with sword of might or soul render and the pendant. His standard negates outnumber bonus and he has a nigh impenetrable armor/ward save meaning he simply needs to charge in and grind them down.

Not really IMHO. The charging in part is the most difficult, you see. You have to get them in the open, and that is not always that easy and on top of that, if you charge wraiths with a banshee and he rolls good for his howl, the tank BSB will go down, because he can't take an armour save or his inverse ward, wich only works against attacks with a strength value.

[Desert icon]

Not really IMHO. The charging in part is the most difficult, you see. You have to get them in the open, and that is not always that easy

Not that hard, if they're not within charge range (18" if you take the steed, which you should) then they're not a threat, if they are within range you'll reach them easily.

on top of that, if you charge wraiths with a banshee and he rolls good for his howl, the tank BSB will go down, because he can't take an armour save or his inverse ward, wich only works against attacks with a strength value.

Well, stand and shoot is resolved on the unit if you're charging out of one, which is probably a good idea. He's gotta roll at least an 8 on both dice to do any sort of damage anyway, which are pretty good odds.

Shenanigans like these are why you challenge the Banshee and attempt to overkill her. This negates the attacks from the Wraiths, and gives you an easy time (since she's easy to take down, as she's not a great fighter).

If he refuses the challenge (and there is room to hide her, you are safe from the howl, until the next turn when you inevitably challenge again.

[Dalamar]

If he refuses the challenge (and there is room to hide her, you are safe from the howl, until the next turn when you inevitably challenge again.

Banshee will be always able to howl.

Challenge in your CC phase - banshee movement phase she moves back to front - howls - another CC phase she gets challenged again and moves back - in their movement phase she comes back to front and so on.

[Desert icon]

Banshee will be always able to howl.

Damn, forgot about that.

Well, it's still a pretty good idea with this Master, seeing as how he'll be cheaper than the Wraiths unit by around 40 or so points at least, give or take depending on your loadout and how many Wraiths he takes. Holding up many more points than he's worth is always great, and with a little luck you should be looking at ridding yourself of 2 Wraiths per turn. If he's spending invocation spam on bringing those things back, then that's less skeletons, zombies, ghouls, and Danses he's throwing out. I'd say, totally worth the pointage.

Even if the Banshee manages to kill you during her turn with her howl, they won't be moving at all that turn. That gives you an entire turn of freedom to prepare for their shenanigans or rid yourself of some other menace before they have time to act.

[Stonecutter]

I generally run a more combat oriented army and have 2 fighting characters with magic weapons for just such instances. If you are going to be running into the ethereals a lot, then it is likely a good idea to tailor your army a bit to deal with them. This means having at least two models with magic weapons (say a character and unit champ if you are magic heavy) which will also help deal with forest spirits and some other units/charcters that have protection against non-magical attacks.

As others have mentioned, static combat res and magic weapons do wonders and the unit cannot flee so it is a matter of combining the two. A dual charge is best , ideally with cheaper units but a hydra with a block of ranked infantry led by a magic weapon character(s) works well, especially if the general is nearby for ld 9 or 10. Charge the hydra in first and tactically wheel to align them so the ranked infantry hits the flank and contacts only one model (the hydra also gets a regen save against any howling wounds!). Unless there is an ethereal BSB in the unit, DO NOT challenge with a magic wielding model. Magical attacks need to be directed against the wraiths to minimize any damage to the infantry and the hydra and to decrease the unit size as much as possible. Since the banshee has only 1 CC attacks at WS3/S3, even a spear elf with HW&shield will likely survive. Combat will start at +6 and the magic wielding character(s) should be able to do a minimum of 2 wounds and the wraiths might do 1-2 wounds back. Worst case, wounds are equal and the wraiths melt another 6 so even a unit of 4 models will drop instantly while a larger unit will require 8 successful castings of invocation to return them to full strength.

Spirit hosts are somewhat easier and less dangerous as a single hydra can pin them in place for an extended period of time, especially if it gets a flank charge in (flank vs outnumber = draw) as the 4 x S3 attacks are unlikely to wound T5 and make it through the 4+ armour and regen saves. Tossing a ranked unit at the other flank to get combat res will melt the unit as will attacks from the character with a magic weapon.