Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:10 am



Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
D.R.A.I.C.H. - Lokhir Fellheart, a corsair hero. 
Author Message
Corsair
Corsair
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8707
Location: Hag Graef
Nicknamed Squidface, a new hero has been introduced in our most recent army book.
He was not available before, probably due to an ongoing campaign?

-..v_v..Lokhir Fellheart
-..(--)..Conqueror
..U( )U.of Ind


There are not many discussions about him, just like for other named characters.
Three reasons for that:
- Usually, armies designed for tournaments don’t take any named character.
- Another reason for not taking named preset characters is that people like to have the feeling they created an army reflecting their personnality, so they need to tool up each of their hero themselves – funny to see nonetheless how similar are the result sometimes, especially with heroes not even given a name!
- Finally, many people just can’t decide to pay for the very high cost of a named character.

In this thread, we will try to determine, based on scarce experience but thorough analysis, how worth it would be to take Lokhir.


1. Analysis of Lokhir’s stats & properties, compared to a regular Master.

Lokhir has the very same stats as a Master. See GW’s page =>Lokhir
Contrary to a master who can choose whichever equipment he wishes, Lokhir has a mandatory equipment.
Let’s compare them two in different fields.


2. Mobility.

Master’s mobility: he can remain footed, or mount a DS or a CO allowing him to remain inside a unit, or on a flying monster.
Lokhir mobility: footed. In addition, Lokhir has Daring Leap special rule.

Daring Leap: At the start of any round of combat, before challenges are issued and impact hits are resolved, you may swap Lokhir with any other model in the same unit, as long as Lokhir is moved to a position that is in contact with the enemy. Lokhir may not use his heroic leap if he is in a challenge, or if he cannot move for any other reason.

Comparison: if you want a mobile Master, don’t take Lokhir.
If you intend to place your master inside an infantry unit, then a master can still ride a CO or a DS, with which he could choose to leave the unit when necessary. Only a footed master is truly equivalent to Lokhir.

However, when the unit they are in come into a melee, the Daring Leap is useful if:
- The Master is not in contact with the enemy at all (example: you’re side-charged or rear-charged) => you can get him in contact and make good use of his weapons.
- The Master is not in contact with a rewarding foe (magic user, BSB…) => Lokhir can jump into contact and concentrate his attacks towards this specific foe, instead of letting a lousy R&F try to do the most important job.
- The Master is in contact with too dangerous a foe => Lokhir can jump away and get in contact with only mundane R&F and survive, while the Master’s only survival hope is that the champion takes the dangerous foe’s challenge.
- Combination of the above.

Overall, Lokhir has an advantage if you intend to get into tough melee against über-units, with a choice of characters to fight or to avoid. The Master has an advantage if you provide him with a mount.
Consider taking Lokhir only if you have a large solid, non-Khainite infantry unit to shelter him in: corsairs, spears or BG.

Filling the gap between a Master and an Assassin?
The Daring Leap provides one of the benefits of an assassin:
Like a hidden assassin, Lokhir can choose the best location for starting a melee, in contact of a juicy target (magic-user, BSB...).

However, the Assassin has the additional benefit of being hidden, so he is a surprise for the opponent, contrary to Lokhir which leap can be anticipated.

Also, the Assassin always strikes first (ASF), and he can be tooled up with KB or with many attacks, while Lokhir only option is to have many, rerolling attacks. Thanks to these two properties, the assassin can take on the role of babysitter, either to protect a sorceress from nasty characters, or to protect a unit of infantry (Execs...) from opponents striking first because of a charge or because of being HE. Lokhir does not strike first nor have KB, so he offers no pre-emptive protection against opponents who charge.

Conclusion: Lokhir offers only a single aspect of an assassin, but he is actually even better than an assassin in this aspect, for he can jump during the melee according to the evolving need, while the assassin finishes a melee where he started it.


3. Psychology.

Master’s psychology: Ld 9.
Lokhir psychology: Ld 9, and causes Terror (with Helm).

Comparison: Especially useful when fighting fear-causing armies like VC and DoC, because Lokhir makes one unit immune to fear and still let other heroes to take other psy items.
And of course, it is outstanding against low Ld armies, where the terror caused by Lokhir will pay off.

In order to cause terror, a Master would have to use his whole magic object allotment for a Deathmask; he may pay for only half of that and get a Fear-causing Gem, working only once; or he may ride a CO, not using the magic item allotment for that – but risking stupidity.

On the other hand, when facing high Ld, non fear-causing armies like Dwarven or HE, it is not very useful to cause terror, it just allows you to resist terror-causing dragons and the likes.

This is one asset for which you see that the advantage of taking Lokhir depends heavily on the armies you face.


Last edited by Calisson on Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:07 pm, edited 5 times in total.



Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:29 pm
Profile
Corsair
Corsair
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8707
Location: Hag Graef
Post 
4. Defensive gear.

Master’s usual defensive gear: he normally gets a heavy armour & sea dragon cloak for a (Save/save versus shooting) of (+4/+3). In addition, there is often a shield (+3/+2) or (+2/+2) with handweapon, or even a mount plus a shield (+2/+1) or (+1/+0) depending on the mount.
Lokhir’s defensive gear: heavy armour, sea dragon cloak: Save is (+4/+3). And Regeneration (with his Helm).

Comparison: Only Masters wanting to use AHW, GW or halberd (including Dagger of Hotek, Crimson Death & Soulrender) will have a save as bad as Lokhir.
The only benefit of Lokhir is the Regeneration, which more or less just provides him with twice as many wounds.
But how good is that?

Let’s see how many successful melee hits are required to kill Lokhir and other Masters, according to the strength:
Lokhir (+4): 16 S3, 9 S4, 6 S5, 5 S6, 5 S7 melee hits will kill him. :mrgreen:
Master (+4): 8 S3, 4.5 S4, 3 S5, 2.5 S6, 2.5 S7 melee hits will kill him. (Footed, unshielded). :x
Master (+3) 12 S3, 6 S4, 4 S5, 3 S6, 2.5 S7 melee hits will kill him. (Footed, shield). :x
Master (+2) 24 S3, 9 S4, 5 S5, 4 S6, 3 S7 melee hits will kill him. (Foot, shield & hand weapon, or DS & shield). :|
Master (+1) 24 S3, 18 S4, 7 S5, 5 S6, 4 S7 melee hits will kill him. (CO & shield). :)
Master (+0) 24 S3, 18 S4, 14 S5, 7 S6, 5 S7 melee hits will kill him. (CO & shield & magic armour). :lol:

There, you can see that:
- Lokhir is better or as well protected than any Master except a Master on CO;
- Lokhir suffers more from many low strength attacks, and less from few high S attacks.
Therefore, if you face high S attacks (monsters, heavy cavalry) then Lokhir is as good or better to take as anyone.
If you receive flocks of arrows, then Lokhir will die faster than a heavily armoured Master.
Sure, the very best is the Master with the PoK, said to be “unkillable”, a.k.a. Captain Scarlet. Well, there is only one PoK available and you can give it to a Master and take Lokhir at the same time for two tough characters!

However, in addition, there could be cost considerations.
If you consider that Lokhir costs 250pts while a fully tooled master on CO costs some 160pts, then you realize that it is as much cost/efficient to kill Lokhir as any footed master with minimal armour, and it is more rewarding to kill Lokhir than a Master on CO.

Beware: Regeneration is negated by flaming attacks…

Conclusion: Lokhir has an adequate protection, nothing exceptional but not as bad as one would think.


5. Offensive gear.

Master’s usual offensive gear: usually some kind of magic weapon; if there is a mount it adds one attack.
Lokhir’s offensive gear: magic attacks, +1 or more attacks, re-rolls failed rolls to Wound.
The Red Blades (Magic weapon): A model wielding the Red Blades gains additional attacks in close combat equal to the number of ranks in the enemy unit he is attacking. In addition, he re-rolls failed rolls to Wound.
Note: the total number of rank is taken into account, NOT the mere rank bonus. For example, fighting a single model, that makes 1 rank, therefore 1 more attack. There is no limit, so fighting a unit of 15 ranks, it brings 15 more attacks.

Comparison: A Master can select to take a magic weapon with a high strength, which not only would wound more easily (but no rerolls so it becomes the same), but also would help piercing armours.
Lokhir has many attacks, wounding more often, but with only S4 strength bonus providing 1 armour piercing. Therefore, Lokhir is great only when facing foes with low E and little or no armour. He becomes brilliant facing hordes, of course.

This induces to combine Lokhir with BG or spears rather than corsairs, as the corsair unit have the same advantage as Lokhir of many, low S attacks.

Note that if a COB grants Lokhir KB, then he becomes really awesome against heavy cavalry. This actually improves if the foe has T4 or T5, because it makes more rerolls therefore more KB!
So if you have a CoB, then putting Lokhir inside a corsair unit with SSS makes sense, otherwise he would be better used inside a BG unit where Lokhir and the BG complement each other well.
Beware, though, that KB works only on US1 or US2 models, so Ogres are immune.

In complement, Lokhir would benefit a lot from the AP Banner of Murder: the more attacks, the more benefit.

Here again, we discover that Lokhir is great against horde armies (Skaven, BoC, O&G) and, with the help of a CoB, against armoured armies (Dwarf, WoC, Empire).

The funny trick:
Send Lokhir alone to charge skirmishers.
They will align on him, allowing 3 models per ranks.
A unit of 10 skirmishers will make 4 ranks, granting Lokhir 7 attacks! :shock:
If 3 skirmisher are killed (most likely), no one strikes back, they have no rank BONUS (as skirmisher), they still get +1 for being more numerous, they lost by 2!
Too bad the skirmishers are likely to have run previously in terror, leaving Lokhir alone in the open… :cry:
End of the dream. :roll:


6. Other properties.

A Master may receive some magic object property, and this property is not known by the opponent as long as it is not used. But he is limited to 50pts.
Lokhir has the benefit of having many items simultaneously, that no Master can take together. But and all his special rules & equipment, known beforehand to the opponent, are not a surprise (but the mere fact to take Lokhir should be a surprise, though!).
Finally, Lokhir has the Merciless Slaver special rule.
Merciless Slaver: As long as Lokhir is alive, any unit that flees from close combat and is run down by Lokhir's unit is taken captive. Units destroyed in this way are worth double their normal amount of victory points, even if Lokhir and his unit are later destroyed

Comparison: Among the magic object Lokhir has not, probably wearing a pair of null shards or the RoH is the greatest advantage brought by a Master.

Lokhir’s slaver rule is really unique. If you want to make the best of it, the difficulty is to run down the unit with a footed model.
Here is when the Corsairs slavery rule helps a lot.
Therefore you should endeavour to have a corsair unit in the same melee than Lokhir.


7. How much would cost a hero with similar properties?

Let’s make an impossible hero, with an unlimited amount of magic objects, to look as much as possible like Lokhir.

Master, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak,
Armour of Eternal Servitude (regeneration)
Death mask (causes terror)
Hydra blade (1D3 more attacks)
Heartseeker (rerolls wounds)
Total 239 pts.

Lokhir costs 250 pts, and you get in addition Daring Leap and Merciless Slaver for a mere 11 pts!

So he seems really interesting, provided you have a good use for his many special properties.
Alternatively, as we have seen, you could also consider paying for a DS and a magic shield instead of the AOES, which would make this Master down to 235 pts, with the extra mobility. Therefore, the real price for the Leap and Slaver rules is 15 pts, still not that much.
An unseen price is that your opponent knows exactly what he faces. This is compensated by Lokhir own, plentiful gear.

As a conclusion, the hefty price of Lokhir reflects well his great abilities.
Therefore, you can well take Lokhir into a competitive army… provided you do have an actual use for all or most of his amazing properties.
If only half of his properties are used, then you're paying too much.


Last edited by Calisson on Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:33 pm
Profile
Corsair
Corsair
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8707
Location: Hag Graef
Post 
8. In which units is Lokhir at his best?

As we have seen above, Lokhir works best
in conjunction with a COB,
inside a large unit of corsairs with SSS,

or, if you have no COB,
inside a large BG unit with AP
or possibly a corsair unit with AP,
or, least preferred, inside a unit of spears.
If Lokhir is not inside a corsair unit, then there should be a corsair unit in vicinity, ready to side-charge and provide the slaver rule.

Furgil has been mentioned that he could do well inside a "Shade Death Star". Quote:
This special character is a great way to maximize effectiveness of the Shade-Star through combat. The enemy will likely try to fight you early on before realizing it is a bad idea. Because of this try to fight a mid-level unit with a few hundred points 200-300 by destroying this you'll double your points with Lokhir's special rule and gain a decisive advantage. He also causes Terror so psychology will be on little concern unless you worry about Panic Tests.


In a similar role (many low S attacks), he seems to be a better choice, despite being much more expensive, than a DH or an assassin, whose attacks are not magic but who can get KB.
Compared to other Masters, his drawback is to be unable to get any magic resistance.

I see no need to complement Lokhir with any other character inside the same unit, not even an assassin.
Also, Lokhir does not make a good babysitter for a sorceress because you want him in a melee when the sorceress wants to avoid it.
A useful character in Lokhir's unit would be a Master with a magic resistance.
A BSB would help him to win combats, therefore increase the chance to take more slaves. :twisted:


9. Against which armies is Lokhir best?

He's supposed to be hordes’ chewer and he's great at it.
As we have seen, Lokhir is great when facing
- slow melee armies (footed),
- horde armies (more attacks with Blades),
- armies with little armour (many attacks Blades),
- low Ld armies (terror Helm),
- fear-causing or terror-causing armies (terror Helm),
- armies with an über-unit with many characters (Leap),
- armies with high S attacks (regen Helm),
- costly infantry armies (Slavery),
- armies with strong armour and strong T only if you have a COB (Blades),
- high T armies (rerolling Blades).

He should avoid:
- flaming attacks or KB attacks (negates regen),
- too many S3 attacks (low T and bad armour),
- armoured armies (little use for Blades - except if a COB can provide KB),
- shooty/magic evasive armies (he is helpless).
- Chariots, heavy cav, heavy infantry, characters, monsters etc, who have not much to fear from him.

I’m not an expert of most armies, but it seems that:
Skaven should worry a lot from Lokhir. VC should suffer quite a lot, too.
O&G, BoC, TK and Ogres would probably not like him.
Facing WoC or Brets, you need a COB.
Empire or Dwarves could worry, unless they go shooting-heavy.

On the opposite, WE have little to fear. HE and DE are not to be too worried, nor DoC. Not sure for LM.

This is based on what I heard about most armies of which I have very little knowledge. Please correct me.

Definitively not a tournament hero to take, even if it was allowed.


10. Fluffy and/or efficient armies with Lokhir.

Here are some inspiration about armies with Lokhir, already posted in D.net.

1,500 points of corsairs - my first list (2 batallions & Lokhir)
1,500pts Tower of Blessed Dread List
2.0k Corsair list. please help
2'000 point Tower of Blessed Dread themed list. Lokhir, 30 corsairs, COK, hydra
2250 Dark Elf Pirate army. opinions please
Tournament List: 2250 pt Black Arc Corsair Army (Lokhir, corsairs, COK...)
Discussion on Corsair Army Lists, Competitive/Fluffy.


11. Conclusion.

Lokhir seems really playable if you face the appropriate army.
His expensive pts price is well balanced by his many excellent properties, so taking him at 1500pts or more should not be a liability.

If it was only for the fluff and that he's a very nice looking mini, he would be worth taking, as I did :D and I’m sure not to be the only one to have done that!


Thanks to the writers of the single useful thread previously made about Lokhir:
Lokhir Fellheart-The best choice for a character on foot?


If you have some comments, please post them here below.
More precious, if you have actual experience with him, please report below!

Thanks.

_________________
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}


Last edited by Calisson on Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.



Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:33 pm
Profile
Generalissimo
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 3716
Location: Baltimore
Post 
Calisson, you're my new hero. I've been desperate to field Lokhir for ages but never felt I had the right knowledge about how best to use him :) Now that problem is resolved :)

_________________
"While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. So answer the question."

Don't be a munchkin?

Image

I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman


Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:59 pm
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:33 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Baking in the hot Summer sun
Post 
Excellent work as always Calisson. Your articles never cease to amaze. Will definitely make a fitting piece for the D.R.A.I.C.H. You've also given me some interesting ideas with this piece that should prove lots of fun in the games I have with my group (though they'll probably hate me for it).


Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:41 pm
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:15 pm
Posts: 566
Post 
should add in the plus, that he's a very nice looking mini.


Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:48 am
Profile
Corsair
Corsair
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8707
Location: Hag Graef
Post 
thanks for the comments.
deathknight27, Desert Icon, please post down here your feelings after getting actual experience.
Enkiel, right, I included your comment in the conclusion.

_________________
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}


Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:36 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 am
Posts: 1138
Location: Located
Post 
Nice analysis, but can you compare him to an assassin as well? IMO Lokhir would fulfill the same roll of an assassin, or at least more than the role of a master. What are the pros and cons of the assassin in comparision to Lokhir?

_________________
"Ceterum censeo Ulthuan esse delendam"
-Ehakir

3/4 of games are won by deathstars. Copy this into your signature if you still use real tactics to win.


Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:32 pm
Profile
Corsair
Corsair
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8707
Location: Hag Graef
Post 
Good point, Ehakir.
Edited paragraph 2 with a comparison between Lokhir and an assassin.
If you have something to add, I'll edit furthermore.

_________________
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}


Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:57 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 9 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software