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Save money; buy a Dragon? 
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Noble
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Hi all. I planned out a really great Infantry army in the relevant forum but the problem I realised I have is that I will never be able to:

A) afford it,
B) complete it.

So now I am considering getting myself a Dragon simply because it is a solid points/cash investment and will form a nice centrepiece and fill about 1/3 f the armys total points.

Has anyone else ever thought like this?

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Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:59 pm
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Corsair
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If you're tight on money, try a footed magic/shooty list with many assassins.
Socressess Level 4 + 3 level 2 + 4 assassins = 1400 pts easy for 8 footed models.
Not cheesy, but it can be fun!

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Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:45 pm
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Black Guard

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Also - you could ebay a large sum of your models for MUCH cheaper! I've bought/sold entire armies on ebay - infact I just sold my Dark Eldar last week, the guy picked up ~$900 in product for $350, so it works both ways.

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Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:48 pm
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Definetly! You get on ebay WHFB- stuff as brand new or in the sprue for 70%-50% of the orginal price easily!

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Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:06 pm
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Assassin
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used stuff... everything (especially metal model) can be unpainted easily.

i bough 20+ Witch Elf, 12s of Exec, and 6 Shades for 25$. All had crappy paint, but after an hour in nail remover stuff, they were almost like new.


Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:16 pm
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Shade
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Thats right. Buy used ones from ebay or any other auctions. A few hours in pait remover or nail polish remover and you have almost brand new models. Not to mention that it will be a lot cheaper. Paint remover costs like 2-3GBP, just remember to put it somewhere where you cant smell it :).

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Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:49 pm
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Noble
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Don't forget this is a time issue. I also HATE magic.

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Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:11 pm
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Cold One Knight
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I just got all my painted Dark Elfs (started with 7th ed book) and I had for ranked infantry:

45 Spears no shields
42 Spears with shields
20 Corsairs AHW
15 Executioners
20 Black Guard
14 Witch Elves
and No Dragon

I painted my first 2000pts in 5 weeks and it had 60 ranked infantry in (40 spears 20 corsairs). With a battalian box and two boxes of warriors I had almost my entire 2000pts barring 2 assassins, 1 Sorceress, 1 hero on Cold One and a couple of units of Dark Riders converted from Glade Riders. So it wasn't very expensive either.

So no I don't know what you are talking about sorry.

It depends how you like to paint. I am fairly quick and used dip for the army (to be honest though the new washes would be quicker and just as good) over a basecoat and a highlight then a matt vanish to take the shine off them. They look really nice and I even got joint second on a best painted award at a 40 player tournament one time.


Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:27 pm
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Corsair
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I just finished my study, based on GW prices (for Ireland: € in English), and taking into account the highests pts builds.

===========================================
The least £€$ spent on the highest points:
Footed Level 4, full kit: 28 pts per €. Shortly followed by Morathi, and She can use many pts!

Best non-magician: Shadowblade. 24 pt/€, shortly followed by full kit footed Dreadlords (exe axe) and Lokhir (20 pt/€).

Malekith on dragon brings 18 pt/€, and a fully kitted dreadlord using Rakarth Dragonrider is a pitiful 15 pt/€. Even a dreadlord on CO can do better with up to 17 pt/€.
However, you're right to spot that dragon rides eat a lot of pts, especially Malekith on dragon.

Regular assassins, fully kitted, can be as good as Malus with 15 pt/€.

The dreadlord the most expensive per pts rides the Manticore, at 13 pt/€.

All masters are in the 10 pt/€ range, be it footed, on CO or Manti. The DS is beautiful but provides less pts per €. Sorceresses are slightly more efficient than masters.

==========================================

Now, the troops.

A pt of any troop is much, much more expensive than a pt of any character.
So if you're tight on money, start with a character heavy army.

Only exception:
COK are in the 7 to 12 pt/€ range, depending on the kit. These are by far the best value for your money.

Then comes the best core troop: corsairs, at over 7 pt/€ in the SSS variety.

Next come BG then Execs, fully kitted in a small unit, you'll get over 5 pt/€.
Same for Shades if you take the champion and GW, but they come in boxes of 5 and you'd be better off with 7.

Warriors, in large units, FC, shields, are the last unit to achieve 5 pt/€.

The two rare units are not far apart, the RBT slightly better than the hydra.
RXBmen are behind.

The worst are DR and harpies. Not even 2 pt/€.

===================================================

So, my final advice for making the cheapest army:

- Malekith or Morathi or a Dragon lord.
- Or a Level 4 or a footed dreadlord.

- Shadowblade & Lokhir.
- As many assassins as you can.
- Malus if you still can.

For your troops, go for as many COK as possible.
An alternative is 4 small units of 5 shades with an assassin in each.
For a little variety, you can select a unit of 10 BG, full kit, with assassin.

Core must include a unit of 10 SSS corsairs.
Another unit of 10 corsairs should be taken, preferably FC AP.
Then a third corsair unit with the warbanner (or a unit of warriors).
A pair of RBT might not be bad.


Hope it helped!

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Last edited by Calisson on Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:38 pm
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Noble
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Ah you stud! What a thorough post!

I'd been considering a Corsair army for a while. Will look into it.

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Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:41 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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You can aslo consider some conversions to make some of the above cheaper.
i.e Wood Elf Glade Riders for Dark Riders- 8 Models for 50$ instead of 160$ :)
i.e Daemonettes with Harpy Wings
i.e High Elf Dragon - Even more expensive points wise for the same cost is a Lv 4 on Dragon. 600 points for about 75$

BSB's with Magic banner will also eat up points fast.
Take the Banner of Nagarythe for instance. :)

Calisson I am a bit confused as to why you put Warriors above Crossbows? Both can be made from the same box and Crossbows are much more expensive.

Generally though never go to buy stuff at GW. there are always cheaper ways availiable.

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Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:52 pm
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Not only I'm a student, but I also live in Poland, therefore I am effectively a self-proclaimed expert at saving money on whfb, booze and I am about to recycle condoms!
Let me tell you how I managed to make my DE cheaper :
A box of corsairs allowed me to make :
-Dark Riders (combined with glade riders)
-Shades (glade guard with xbows)
-Two mages (yes, I play male-only DE) - one was made from the std.bearer (std. made a great staff), the other one was just some kitbash.
-Std. bearer also makes a great BSB.
-Corsairs also allowed me to make two assassins (dagger options + greenstuff mask/hood), a dreadlord on foot, mounted dreadlord...you name it.

Harpies are either made from demonettes or ghouls - I preffer ghouls, because since I am terrible at making greenstuff wings, if I make them a bit imperfect it still fits the ghoul models. (remember - GS + wire, the very same way some guy built a varghulf from a chaos spawn).

RBT's - if you're interested, there's an awesome guide on warseer on how to make a full set of goblin warmachines for about $2 each using plasticard. Same technique can be applied to RBT's and with some practice you can make stuff really similar to GW models. As crew simply use leftover corsairs or warriors.

Chariots can also be easily scratchbuilt and there are also tutorials for those.

Empire wizard box is a pretty ok way to make two spellcasters (I preffer armoured ones from corsairs tho, as I'm a former WoC player - old habits ;p )

Remember to magnetize rxb's/spears for fast swaping (or if you decide that you want to make your rbx's into a block of spearmen, simply have 5 spearmen ready and assembled (or only 5 rbx magnetised for quick swap for spears) to form the front rank, rear ranks can as well be filled with rbx's - they look almost identical anyway, especially with shields).

Dark Pegasus is pretty obvious - glade rider horsie + wings ; >

CoB can be also easily scratch-build - just use your imagination. In the end, it all depends on the paintjob anyway.

PS: oh I almost forgot the most important thing - UNIT FILLERS! Be creative and try to stick to a certain army/unit theme and you can do wonders with them. Fillers are especially widely used by VC players who need a lot of bodies in the army - a good example is a big grave on 6x20mm inside a unit of grave guard or a big totem in a unit of goblins/orcs. Anything is possible really, as long as you stay consequent.

Hope that helped,
Kmd.


Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:29 am
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Indeed, I did not consider conversions.
Myself, I gave a second life to my old D&D models and I love to convert.

In my post above, I did not take conversions into account because they depend heavily on the talent and bits available, whereas the official GW products provide a universal basis for comparison and are usually immediately available in your local shop.
My most cost-effective model is certainly a BSB made with Malus model wielding a corsair banner. BoN springs to mind, but even the good ol' unkillable BSB is great.
Bounce wrote:
Calisson I am a bit confused as to why you put Warriors above Crossbows? Both can be made from the same box and Crossbows are much more expensive.
That is because I considered crossbows with shields (common), musician (usual) and champ (rare), but not banner (hardly ever seen except in large units). Worse (although not taken into account), usually you wish 10 of them, not 16.

For spears, I considered a unit with shields, FC and magic banner. Admittedly, you don't see that very often in a 16 man unit, possibly a 32 unit should be considered.

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Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:25 am
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If the 8ed 25% character restrictions are true, then a dragon may not be your best bet.

Pick up your rares, specials, and wait.

A dragon always makes a lovely centrepiece though. :twisted:


Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:05 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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After a bit of thought, I realized it is possible to make many special (read: expensive) units from core box sets.

Obviously, the Warrior box makes Spearmen and Repeater Crossbowmen. But you can also make Executioners by trimming the spears down to be the length of greatswords. And if you use green stuff to sculpt heftier blades and backspikes on the spears, you have Black Guard as well!

Corsairs can be altered into shades by using leftover repeater crossbow arms from the warrior kits, and using green stuff to smooth over the scales on the cloaks.

Using those two boxes togehter, you could make Witches. Use the female Warrior tosros with the Corsair legs, arms, and helmetless heads. Paint up the torso with a black leather bustier and paint some skin on the top and no one will question what this unit is! This will also give you a bunch of Corsair torsos with sea dragon cloaks (along with a bunch of other bits), waiting to be used for character kitbashing.

I'm sure the WE Glade Rider + DE Warrior -> Dark Rider conversion has been discussed. It works quite well.

Harpies can be converted from Chaos Daemonettes. The GW friendly was is to use Tyranind Gargoyle wings - which also has the benefit of looking really mean. 8) Unfortunately, they are expensive to buy as bits. You might be better off buying the Gargoyle box and selling the rest - yes, the wings are that expensive :shock: . Alternately, you can use wings from another source.

Cold One Knights also provide a plethora of parts for character kitbashing.

The High Elf Dragon comes with two complete riders, and you can convert the one you're not using for the dragonrider to be a mounted character pretty easily. And to make the dragonrider female (for a supreme sorceress), again just the female Warrior torso.

Right now I'd rank the Dark Elves third for customization and convertability, behind Orcs & Goblins and Empire. We have our own plastic kits to draw from, and we can also make strategic use of the High and Wood Elf kits. So if something you want is out of your price range, take a long hard look at the sprues. Chances are you can make it out of bits you already have handy!


Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:32 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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I can't really see it myself.
We have only 3 Plastic kits to choose from.
It's more the simple fact that there are three elf armies and we can unscrupolously steal the other races models to make up for all the huge gaps in our own.

That doesn't really make us customisable more Copycats and Thieves.

I just started Orcs and goblins and the amount of customisation is much better.
Plastic kits for
-Orcs
-Black orcs
-Goblins
-Night Goblins
-Orc Heroes
- fanatics
-Wolf RIders
-Giants
-spider Riders
:)

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Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:33 am
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I have three dragons now, 2 are built, 1 is in pcs as I havn't started putting him together.

Quote:
If the 8ed 25% character restrictions are true, then a dragon may not be your best bet.

What do you mean?

Mod Edit: double post removed.

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Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:14 pm
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Bounce wrote:
I can't really see it myself.
We have only 3 Plastic kits to choose from.
It's more the simple fact that there are three elf armies and we can unscrupolously steal the other races models to make up for all the huge gaps in our own.

That doesn't really make us customisable more Copycats and Thieves.


:shock: I'm not certain whether to be offended or dumbfounded by this... I think I'll just go with dumbfounded. Obviously someone hasn't read our fluff very well.

Unscrupulous? Steal kits from other races? Copycats and thieves? Hello! One of our core units has a special rule titled Slavers! We're the meanest pirates in the entire world! Of course we're going to take stuff from other races! That's our birthright as the followers of the rightful Phoenix King! Just because some treacherous sorcerer managed to turn the flames of Asuriyan against our lord doesn't mean we have to play nice with anyone!

Besides, using 'just' our two plastic infantry kits, we can create ANY of our infantry units. How many other races can make that claim? They may not look quite as nice as the dedicated metals, but they would be a heck of a lot cheaper...

Which was kinda the point of the whole thread, wasn't it?


Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:35 pm
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Generalissimo
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Quote:
Hi all. I planned out a really great Infantry army in the relevant forum but the problem I realised I have is that I will never be able to:

A) afford it,
B) complete it.

So now I am considering getting myself a Dragon simply because it is a solid points/cash investment and will form a nice centrepiece and fill about 1/3 f the armys total points.

Has anyone else ever thought like this?


Go with a smaller army until you can afford it and complete it?

There's nothing wrong with playing with a 1.5k army rather than a 2.25k one. I think that adding extra powerful models into armies to beef up the points totals is a shame to be honest. Better to make a more finely tuned smaller army than just character/monster stack to get a big one.

Otherwise it becomes far too easy to make a 2k army along the lines of:

1 Malekith on dragon: 920 points
1 Shadowblade: 300 points
1 Malus: 275 points
1 Lokhir: 250 points
10 corsairs + full command and sea serpent banner: 150 points
10 crossbowmen + champ: 105 points
Total: 2000 points
24 models

I appreciate that's exaggerated, but you see my point?

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Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:43 pm
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Calisson wrote:
I just finished my study, based on GW prices (for Ireland: € in English), and taking into account the highests pts builds.


Kmd wrote:
A box of corsairs allowed me to make :
-Dark Riders (combined with glade riders)
-Shades (glade guard with xbows)
-Two mages (yes, I play male-only DE) - one was made from the std.bearer (std. made a great staff), the other one was just some kitbash.
-Std. bearer also makes a great BSB.
-Corsairs also allowed me to make two assassins (dagger options + greenstuff mask/hood), a dreadlord on foot, mounted dreadlord...you name it.


These two posts were totally worth the price of admission.


Wed May 12, 2010 12:42 pm
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Glade for shades !!! they look better then metal ones.

Just a thought that has been over looked.

also they make nice assassins too.

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Sat May 15, 2010 7:03 pm
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Vulcan wrote:
Bounce wrote:
I can't really see it myself.
We have only 3 Plastic kits to choose from.
It's more the simple fact that there are three elf armies and we can unscrupolously steal the other races models to make up for all the huge gaps in our own.

That doesn't really make us customisable more Copycats and Thieves.


:shock: I'm not certain whether to be offended or dumbfounded by this... I think I'll just go with dumbfounded. Obviously someone hasn't read our fluff very well.

Unscrupulous? Steal kits from other races? Copycats and thieves? Hello! One of our core units has a special rule titled Slavers! We're the meanest pirates in the entire world! Of course we're going to take stuff from other races! That's our birthright as the followers of the rightful Phoenix King! Just because some treacherous sorcerer managed to turn the flames of Asuriyan against our lord doesn't mean we have to play nice with anyone!

Besides, using 'just' our two plastic infantry kits, we can create ANY of our infantry units. How many other races can make that claim? They may not look quite as nice as the dedicated metals, but they would be a heck of a lot cheaper...

Which was kinda the point of the whole thread, wasn't it?


I fail to see how you can make Witch Elves out of the Warrior and Corsair kit?
Let alone Black guard and Executioners.

Yes Dark Elves should be able to have High Elf weaponry and what not but Games Workshop should have given that to us in our own box sets I think.

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Sun May 16, 2010 1:55 am
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Bounce wrote:
I fail to see how you can make Witch Elves out of the Warrior and Corsair kit?
Let alone Black guard and Executioners.

Yes Dark Elves should be able to have High Elf weaponry and what not but Games Workshop should have given that to us in our own box sets I think.


Go search throught he painting threads hear. Someone has done Black Guard with spearmen - although they used Bret halberds instead of GSing axeheads onto spears. And someone else showed how to use spears from the warrior kits to make GW for shades; the same technique can be used to give 'warriors' GW and use them as executioners.

As far as the witches go, that takes a bit of kitbashing using Corsair legs, arms, and heads with the female warrior torsos. Paint some skin on the upper part of the torso, and the rest in black leather, and it looks acceptable, and is a heck of a lot cheaper than the official sculpts. If you're feeling bold with your sculpting skills, you can probably make them a bit more... curvy... to improve their appearance.


Mon May 17, 2010 5:29 am
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