Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:54 am



Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
The Dark Winged Riders of Doom: Dark Pegasus Knights... 
Author Message
The Guiding Eye
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:19 pm
Posts: 1120
Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi...
Pretty much taken tit-for tat from the Brettonian pegasus knights version - thanks to Yemeth for the inspiration...

The Dark Winged Riders of Doom: 55pts each

Code:
              M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  Ld
Doomrider:    -  5   4   4  4  2  5  1  9
Champion*:    -  5   4   4  4  2  5  2  9
Dark Pegasus: 8  4   -   4  -  -  4  2  -


Unit size: 3-9

Equipment: Spear, Heavy Armour, Shield.

Command:
- may upgrade one model to Musician (appropriate pts?)
- may upgrade one model to Standard Bearer (appropriate pts?)
- may upgrade one model to Champion (appropriate pts?)

- Champion may take up to 25 points worth of magic items.
- unit may carry a 25pt magic banner

Special Rules: Flying Cavalry, Horned charge#

*Champion name title suggestions: Malevolent Terror, Hellcraver, Overseer of Souls, Defiler of Souls, Abyssal Persecutor
(you can thank a combination of my own ideas, a thesaurus and MTG website for these titles!)

# forgot the correct dark pegasus special rule title that gives +1 strength to the pegusi on the charge...

I deliberately chose to have the models as a uniform S5 - our army has plenty of punch in the forms of S6 units, and only really the hydra (off top of my head) in the S5 category. I also wanted to make these distinctive from Cold One Knights so might drop the WS to 4; saying that though, they are an elite unit so should probably remain at WS5 I think: just dont want to overpower them... Could prove to be an excellent unit for the dark elves - suitable for extreme flexibility, good punch but still slightly weak. Also gives a good place for Dark Pegasus mounted heroes to hide in and could work well with harpies... ;)

TO MAKE POWERFUL: NB. suggest they become Rare if so...
- lances
- stat upgrade
- magic banner bigger
- ranged weapons
- sea dragon cloaks

To make weaker: also could be rare if needed...
- lose spears/shields
- downgrade armour/no armour
- downgrade stats
- lose magic item for champ
- lose magic banner

I think I would like to see them have options for flexiability: perhaps handbows/repeater crossbows or maybe another missile weapon instead (thrown weapons - javelins or axes?), keep the spears, don't have sea dragon cloaks (or do we need them to protect such expensive models?), perhaps make their banner a 50pt one to make them on elite par with the Black Guard.

I rather like the sort of multiple role of this unit: it reminds me of the olden days when cold one knights could take crossbows!

They definitely should be limited: either 0-1 or 0-2 I think...

Whats yer thoughts?

- Beanz

_________________
The Black Treasures of Naggaroth
The Cult of the Vile Rose History
Death of a Thousand Cuts armylist + batreps TLOEDG (The League of Extraordinary Druchii Gentlemen)


Last edited by Dangerous Beans on Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:58 pm
Profile
The Guiding Eye
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:19 pm
Posts: 1120
Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi...
Post 
RARE CHOICE:

Black Winged Riders of Doom: 75pts each

[0-2 per army]

Code:
              M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  Ld
Doomrider:    -  5   5   4  4  2  5  1  9
Champion*:    -  5   6   4  4  2  5  2  9
Dark Pegasus: 8  4   -   4  -  -  4  2  -

Unit size: 3-10

Equipment: Spear, Light Armour

Options:
- may upgrade light armour to heavy armour for 3pts per model

- may choose one of the following for the whole unit:
repeater handbows for 5pts per model
repeater crossbows for 8pts per model

- may have shields for 3pts per model, however the unit may not use any missile weapons.

- may swap spears for lances for 4pts per model, however the unit may not use any missile weapons.

- if a unit has lances, shields and heavy armour, they may take sea dragon cloaks for +5pts per model.

Command:
- may upgrade one model to Musician for 12pts
- may upgrade one model to Standard Bearer for 24pts
- may upgrade one model to Champion for 36pts

- Champion may take up to 25 points worth of magic items.
- unit may carry a 25pt magic banner

Special Rules: Flying Cavalry, Horned charge#

*Champion name title suggestions: Malevolent Terror, Hellcraver, Overseer of Souls, Defiler of Souls, Abyssal Persecutor
(you can thank a combination of my own ideas, a thesaurus and MTG website for these titles!)

# forgot the correct dark pegasus special rule title that gives +1 strength to the pegusi on the charge...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTES: ok, heres a sort of '1st draft' based on the initial rules and debate I layed out above: I thought that people should be able to customise their riders somewhat and thought it'd be cool if both shades (as 'scouting' doomriders) and the more aggresive/hardy 'knight-like' soldiery were used to fill the ranks of doomrider units.

Hence I allowed somewhat of a split between the 2 styles with lots of chances for flexiability:
- shade doomriders: options to make good use of the BS value (I raised it to 5) and can swoop in to polish off enemies in combat if needed with 3 S5 attacks. Option to increase the armous save (initially only 5+) with buying shields because they are fragile - however, perhaps if you get good with using them, they wouldnt need to be bought...
- the 'knightly' riders: options to take lances and heavy armour - make the most of the S4 and also have options for heavy armour too. Of course they can't take missile weapons though.
- finally, you could just merely use the riders at their cheapest - they do pack a heck of a punch (3 str5 attacks per model) but suffer from only a 5+ armour save so use them wisely!

My thoughts now:

still not sure about the S6 attacks - think maybe I should drop the doomriders str stat to 5? On the other hand I do want them to be on par with cold one knights. I'm also wondering about the Ld9... Theyre also super expensive, but I think thats appropriate:

Peg Knights for Brettonians are 55pts each but the doomriders have steeds that give S5 on charges, have WS5 (+1 from bretts), BS5 and the ability to use missile weapons, S4 (+1 from bretts), I5 (+1 from bretts), and Ld9 (+1 from bretts) - hence I waned to to make them +30 points more as standard.

However to protect them I wanted an armour save that would be able to protect them a little better - hence options for sheilds and heavy armour - and, for the grandest of elite (to represent those nobles whose combat prowess is a step below that of a master...) the chance to wear Sea Dragon Cloaks. By this point though the models are very expensive and the person choosing the unit has a tricky way to play them: keep them alive and save them for the right moment to strike...

They can't take units on their own as unless playing HUGE games, most players will only be taking 3 of them (225pts with no upgrades) which means 9 Strength 5 attacks: good yes, but they can't negate ranks and will doubtfully outnumber and to take a standard bearer is expensive...

Basically I wanted this unit to only feature in armies of 3k or more, but not to be limited to only that. They could be potentially game winning as they are highly manouvrable - can certainly threated even 'hard' enemy units - particularly if charging the flank of knight units, kroxigors, ogres etc who form thin lines. However they are very fragile - unless upgraded with the full armour. Even then the unit is equivalent to 6 cold one knights (albeit with T4...)

I do enjoy the concept of being able to use the unit as Dark Rider support however and the options to take missiles at the expense of extra combat punch and protection from enemy missiles/magic. They do still pack a very large punch, but do so at the expense of cost (each model is nealy 3 times the cost of a cold one knight).

Finally, I wanted them to of course be RARE, but also having the option for up to 2 units would allow players the chance to field different combinations of the 2 (3 if you include the basic/no upgrades models) variants in one army.

However, I think the unit is massively open to abuse: being able to stick a BSB Master with the Hydra Banner and/or coupled with a Cauldron would make the unit VERY capable of taking on enemy units one on one - even with only 3 models.

Saying that, it would be very cool to have a unit for our Pegasus mounted Masters to join during games so I don't want to stop characters joining them.

I'm thus thinking about having a rule that suggests that Battle Standard Bearers may not join units of Doomriders... The hydra banner is much more powerful version of the cauldron's +1 attack as it affects mounts too. And in this unit, the mounts are as deadly as the riders...

Whatcha think? Anyone???! :roll:

- Beanz

_________________
The Black Treasures of Naggaroth
The Cult of the Vile Rose History
Death of a Thousand Cuts armylist + batreps TLOEDG (The League of Extraordinary Druchii Gentlemen)


Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:30 pm
Profile
Beastmaster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:36 am
Posts: 333
Post 
it sure looks interresting.. though i dont think elves to have str 4 or even T4... i would say lower both to 3...

_________________
Senluthan Redskull
Group 36 Mod


Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:46 pm
Profile
The Guiding Eye
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:19 pm
Posts: 1120
Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi...
Post 
Executioners and Cold One Knights are Str 4, These models are T4 to compensate for the fact that the pegasus model profile is included (exactly as per Brettonian Pegasus knights: Knights of the Realm are T3 but the Peg Knights are T4...)

Do you mean that you think they should be Str3 not 4 because it'd be fairer rather than because they can't currently have Str4? :)

- Beanz

_________________
The Black Treasures of Naggaroth
The Cult of the Vile Rose History
Death of a Thousand Cuts armylist + batreps TLOEDG (The League of Extraordinary Druchii Gentlemen)


Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:32 pm
Profile
The Guiding Eye
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:19 pm
Posts: 1120
Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi...
Post 
Executioners and Cold One Knights are Str 4, These models are T4 to compensate for the fact that the pegasus model profile is included (exactly as per Brettonian Pegasus knights: Knights of the Realm are T3 but the Peg Knights are T4...)

Another example is Lizardmen terradon riders: the terradons themselves do not have stats in the way of T or W but the skinks on top have 2 wounds and T3 - which for skinks is VERY rare of course! Hence - its because they corroborated both profiles into one...

Do you mean that you think they should be Str3 not 4 because it'd be fairer rather than because they can't currently have Str4? :)

- Beanz

_________________
The Black Treasures of Naggaroth
The Cult of the Vile Rose History
Death of a Thousand Cuts armylist + batreps TLOEDG (The League of Extraordinary Druchii Gentlemen)


Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:33 pm
Profile
Prophet of Tzeentch
Prophet of Tzeentch
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:51 pm
Posts: 4641
Location: I am the voice inside your head
Post 
I think that they are currently good but the stats are perhaps out of keeping with dark eles, it is the strength that I am thinking of (the toughness being explained by riding the pegasus). I understand your reasoning but I don't realy see why they should be strength four. Perhaps there could be two levels of them, one a specail choice and essentaily dark riders with wings on the horses (with options on ranged weapons, armed with spears light armour ecet. The other a rare choice and the knightly equivilent with lances and(possibly) strength four as well as heavy armour and the like.

_________________
Moding a group of Druchii.net players is much like directing the musical 'Cats' using actual cats. Frustrating, difficult, chaotic but ultimatley satisfying and a great deal of fun.

Arch Deacon of the RPG forum
Gentleman of Moderation


Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:00 pm
Profile
Beastmaster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:19 am
Posts: 357
Location: Oslo, Norway
Post 
A pegasus unit would be composed of high influence individuals, elite troops if you like. Even more so then cold one knights. A pegasus would be a high status mount after all.
So for them to have the same "social status" (stats and equipment) as a lowly dark rider would be highly unlikely. They would probably be like elite cold one knights.


Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:15 pm
Profile
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:53 am
Posts: 21
Location: Australia
Post 
Looks cool but imo way to many options... Id say give them Heavy armor and shield standard in their points and have upgrade options of lance, Halberd or repeater crossbow, Reduce to toughness 3, increase to 2 attacks each and 3 for champion, 50 point magic banner, remove 0-2 cap and put into rare choices, create a rule so flying characters can join the unit, no Sea Dragon Cloaks and maybe a bit more of a catchier name like the Black Winged Knights or Dark Impalers. Just a Thought.

Denny Crane!


Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:25 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 8 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software