The 8th edition corsair
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
I think Corsairs will still suffer in 8th from being rather expensive basic infantry.
Both they and Witches I think were fairly jibbed by the fact that you only get one supporting attack and not three. This gives a big advantage to units with a small number of high strength attacks, particularly now that our opponents will generally always attack back.
For instance before we'd have 21 S3 attacks and then face probably 2-3 S5/6 attacks back.
Now we have 28 S3 attacks and always face 10 S5/6 attacks back.
RHB Corsairs though I think are now better. Shooting in two ranks means vs small units of cav or skirmishers they are stubborn! They also wound all things on 6's which is good.
Both they and Witches I think were fairly jibbed by the fact that you only get one supporting attack and not three. This gives a big advantage to units with a small number of high strength attacks, particularly now that our opponents will generally always attack back.
For instance before we'd have 21 S3 attacks and then face probably 2-3 S5/6 attacks back.
Now we have 28 S3 attacks and always face 10 S5/6 attacks back.
RHB Corsairs though I think are now better. Shooting in two ranks means vs small units of cav or skirmishers they are stubborn! They also wound all things on 6's which is good.
- Mr. anderson
- Dark Illusionist
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- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:25 am
- Location: Dating a Witch elf...
I don't really agree with that, Bounce. They maybe comparably expensive, but RHB corsairs are one of the best units to use against hordes. You are just taking into account the situation where they face units with a few high-strength attacks, which usually are well armoured on top of everything else, but not against hordes. A hore unit that has been taken down to about 40 models, a unit of 30 corsairs deployed 10 wide will cause 10 wounds or thereabouts (if they have armour piercing - though I don't know how that works with the new rules saying it only applies to close combat now - can someone clear that up for me?), considering hordes rarely have better than 6+ armour saves, and another 10 from stand and shoot, which cuts them down to 20 models, and then in close combat, another 7-10 models will die.
Hordes, not being particularly good in combat (which is the reason to field them in large units, after all). You won't be facing a lot of attacks back and then they'll break and be run down. I rather like the idea, actually. Once I've painted all my imperial units, that will be the next thing I'm going to order. On top of that I rather like the models.
Hordes, not being particularly good in combat (which is the reason to field them in large units, after all). You won't be facing a lot of attacks back and then they'll break and be run down. I rather like the idea, actually. Once I've painted all my imperial units, that will be the next thing I'm going to order. On top of that I rather like the models.
When I think of something witty, I shall put it here.
Bounce wrote:I think Corsairs will still suffer in 8th from being rather expensive basic infantry.
Both they and Witches I think were fairly jibbed by the fact that you only get one supporting attack and not three. This gives a big advantage to units with a small number of high strength attacks, particularly now that our opponents will generally always attack back.
For instance before we'd have 21 S3 attacks and then face probably 2-3 S5/6 attacks back.
Now we have 28 S3 attacks and always face 10 S5/6 attacks back.
RHB Corsairs though I think are now better. Shooting in two ranks means vs small units of cav or skirmishers they are stubborn! They also wound all things on 6's which is good.
Hey, at least now spear armed lizardmen have their number of attacks cut short. My eyes use to ALWAYS pop out whenever I charged a block of lizards and after dropping three of four of them, they'd still pick up 20+ dice and butcher two ranks of my elf!
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Except unless you're a monstrous infantry, in which case you'll get up to 3A/model in the supporting rank. Just in case some people get confused.
Btw, a question just popped up in my head. IF a monstrous infantry unit used spears, would their third supporting rank still only get 1A each? Not that a unit of such description comes to mind. Does the MI rule state second supporting rank? Or just supporting rank? It'd be funny if a 3x3 spear armed MI unit could fight with 3A for their third rank too, not that it'd be funny for us since we don't have such units to utilise.
Btw, a question just popped up in my head. IF a monstrous infantry unit used spears, would their third supporting rank still only get 1A each? Not that a unit of such description comes to mind. Does the MI rule state second supporting rank? Or just supporting rank? It'd be funny if a 3x3 spear armed MI unit could fight with 3A for their third rank too, not that it'd be funny for us since we don't have such units to utilise.
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Oh...gg
so if they're in a 6x4 horde formation using spears, they'll lash out with 72 str5 attacks + 6 stomps? :O
so if they're in a 6x4 horde formation using spears, they'll lash out with 72 str5 attacks + 6 stomps? :O
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
my bad, don't vs OK much
they don't use spears, they were used as an MI example for my question that's all haha. Sorry for going off topic, I too, am definitely taking corsairs on board, time to fix up their base positioning and paint them up!
they don't use spears, they were used as an MI example for my question that's all haha. Sorry for going off topic, I too, am definitely taking corsairs on board, time to fix up their base positioning and paint them up!
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
- Dannyisevil
- Shade
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:57 pm
I can not justify to use the corsairs over witches. Yes the strike hard with sss but witches got poison. The corsairs can have characters but i use my witches as anti light infantery and they dont need anny characters for that.
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Its not an boring army, it has a defensive magic and shooting theme :-).
Its not an boring army, it has a defensive magic and shooting theme :-).
I can not justify to use the corsairs over witches. Yes the strike hard with sss but witches got poison. The corsairs can have characters but i use my witches as anti light infantery and they dont need anny characters for that.
Point for point I agree. Although the armour on the corsairs does count for a bit. More in 8th since more infantry units means more S3/4 attacks than in 7th.
The real thing that makes (xhw) corasirs worth taking instead of withches is simply that they are core and use up that mandatory 25%. This wasn't so much of an issue in 7th because you could simply take 3 cheap units, but now you actually have to fioll the points. So if you want a dragon, Lv2, bsb, assassin, 2 hydras and perhaps an rbt or any (non witch) special unit you are likely to have used up ~75% of your army. If you want a witch-like unit you can only go for corsairs. And comparing witches and corsairs, there's not much in it really.
And of course as you have already said you can hide your characters in corsairs.
Ash010110 wrote: I completely agree with Ant (Reynolds, I presume?).
(Please note, I am NOT Anthony Reynolds)
- Masked jackal
- Noble
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Personally, the armor save is a *big* addition. Everytime I field Witch Elves, I find that the enemy cackles in glee as they shoot at them, while with Corsairs, they're one of our hardest units to shoot at because of that 4+ save.
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And a stray wound here and there on a WE is guaranteed death. That's 10pts popped by a lucky partial or hit. Corsairs will make people work harder for that 10pts whilst dishing out a respectable amount of pain on the same WS, S and I in CC.
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
- Masked jackal
- Noble
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:26 am
Personally, the only thing that I'll be using Witches for over Corsairs is flanking units. Same price, and I should have much scarier stuff, like a big Corsair block, Black-Guard, Hydra, etc. to keep them from being shot. And if they are, so what? That means the aforementioned units get into battle without as much shooting done at them. Win/win for me.
8th Edition Druchii War Report:
W/D/L: 30/1/15
http://www.freedomstudios.net/boredlife/boards/index.php?sid=18db5076e750fafca78c5ae7ed86bab3
Bored Life: Forum for RPs and general discussion in need of new blood. PM for details.
W/D/L: 30/1/15
http://www.freedomstudios.net/boredlife/boards/index.php?sid=18db5076e750fafca78c5ae7ed86bab3
Bored Life: Forum for RPs and general discussion in need of new blood. PM for details.
- Icing death
- Trainee Warrior
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:28 am
I actually run a block of 40 corsairs. At 10 wide they are amazing as they benefit from the horde rule, allowing 3 ranks to attack. I put a bsb with the banner of nagarythe and gave the standar bearer the banner of murder. I also put a master with aod and cd. The combo works quite well and has performed exceptionally in all my games. It is extremely resiliant.
Icing Death
Icing Death
"If someone is better at the game than you, change the rules."
- Malus Darkblade
- Malus Darkblade
- Demetrius
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:36 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
Icing Death wrote:I actually run a block of 40 corsairs. At 10 wide they are amazing as they benefit from the horde rule, allowing 3 ranks to attack. I put a bsb with the banner of nagarythe and gave the standar bearer the banner of murder. I also put a master with aod and cd. The combo works quite well and has performed exceptionally in all my games. It is extremely resiliant.
Icing Death
It is also a Deathstar . And you would expect something that costs about 800 points to be 'extremely resiliant'
Like Malekith on a dragon
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
- Dannyisevil
- Shade
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:57 pm
Haplo wrote:The new Rulebook FAQ clears up that 2xAP is stil only AP
Good they make a faq of it.
Thanks for the information.
Icing Death
The look of 40 Corsairs is very cool and I think it's fun/handy too use it
40 Corsairs seems very hard too move.
Big block
Maybee i try 2 units of 12 Corsairs (each unit = 2 x 6) give them both units handbows.
agains eneny infantery blocks they work toogetter. and if used well they can shoot pretty often.
12 Corsairs means 24 shots is about 6 wounds agains Toughness 3.
That is 1 round of shootting
Poor high elf swordmasters