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The 8th edition corsair 
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Executioner
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
Location: Hell
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at 8" range no marching allowed. I found not much opportunity to shoot with my block of 15 in 6x2+3 formation :(

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Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:29 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:56 pm
Posts: 94
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Comparing 21cors AHW SSS banner to a 21unit witch elves (std/mus but no champ, both considered to be used with an COB in army and with 7x3 formation):
Cors cost 25 pts more (250 compared to 225).
Cors do not have poisonous attacks which WE do.
Cors have 1 less initiative than WE.

Cors unit can be joined by dreadlord/masters which WE can't.
Cors have 5+ CC save, 4+ to anything else. WE no save.
Cors count towards core pts.
Cors are slavers.

Thoughts: in a large unit like this I consider cors to be better. They can save in CC vs core infantry that they primarly want to be fighting and can have the aid of charachters should you need/want it. The versatility in your army they give by taking up core pts and by also being able to fight harder units like cavalry or better infantry is also good (with chars/KB blessing). It's hard to imagine how the poisonous attacks and 1 better initiative of WE would make up for these advantages.

Comparing 5x2 cors with RPB to 5x2 crossbowmen (both with only mus & same pts cost):

Cors range is lower (8 to 24).
Cors shooting does not have armor piercing.

Cors do not suffer from movement penalty.
Cors can always stand and shoot.
Cors are slavers.
Cors got better save, 5+ (or 4+ vs noncombat) to 6+ (improved to 5+ with shields for 10pts).

Thoughts: shooting in 2 ranks and swiftreform really hlp for 10strong cors shooting unit (compared to in 7th). It's going to be a lot more challenging manuevering them though (than a crossbow unit shooting from long distance). However, if you manage to do it right, they can end up causing much wounds with their shots vs units with low save and also perhaps give a flank bonus in a CC to break and run down an opponent (with help of slaver rule!).


I actually just played my first game with corsairs ever! Had a 7x3 AddHW SSSbanner-unit that got joined by both a dreadlord and bsb before fighting occured. They got a +1attack cauldron blessing and fought a big marauder block (after losing 14 guys to a single hellcannon shot - ouch!). I eventually won that one after a couple of CC rounds when they lost steadfast. I had expected the marauders to break sooner but I rolled terrible and he saved many with 5+ WS due to parry/mark of Tz.

Gonna play with them again and also try 5x2 repeater handbow unit!


Last edited by Markusswe on Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:36 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:56 pm
Posts: 94
Post 
Meteor wrote:
at 8" range no marching allowed. I found not much opportunity to shoot with my block of 15 in 6x2+3 formation :(


Remember in 8th, you still can march if you pass a ld test! (pg 26)


Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:48 pm
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Assassin
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:23 pm
Posts: 582
Location: Finland
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Calisson wrote:
BoM grants AP to the unit.
A model having AP gets it only in melee (see p. 67).
So much for the AP banner with RHB...

8th edition improved indeed a little bit AHW corsairs, striking in I order, and RHB corsairs, shooting in 2 ranks.

Overall, I agree that corsairs are a valid choice, either as a large unit of SSS (or AP) AHW corsairs, or as a small escorting unit of RHB corsairs. Just as before, but slightly improved.
What remains to be estimated is how the opponent has comparatively improved.


Actually, BoM gives RHB corsairs armour piercing in close combat and in shooting. If a model has a weapon that has AP, it has it only in CC or in shooting depending on the weapon type. BOM gives AP to the unit, not to the weapons.

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Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:01 pm
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Shade
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:57 pm
Posts: 124
Post 
MarkusSWE wrote:
Comparing 21cors AHW SSS banner to a 21unit witch elves (std/mus but no champ, both considered to be used with an COB in army and with 7x3 formation):
Cors cost 25 pts more (250 compared to 225).
Cors do not have poisonous attacks which WE do.
Cors have 1 less initiative than WE.

Cors unit can be joined by dreadlord/masters which WE can't.
Cors have 5+ CC save, 4+ to anything else. WE no save.
Cors count towards core pts.
Cors are slavers.

Thoughts: in a large unit like this I consider cors to be better. They can save in CC vs core infantry that they primarly want to be fighting and can have the aid of charachters should you need/want it. The versatility in your army they give by taking up core pts and by also being able to fight harder units like cavalry or better infantry is also good (with chars/KB blessing). It's hard to imagine how the poisonous attacks and 1 better initiative of WE would make up for these advantages.

Comparing 5x2 cors with RPB to 5x2 crossbowmen (both with only mus & same pts cost):

Cors range is lower (8 to 24).
Cors shooting does not have armor piercing.

Cors do not suffer from movement penalty.
Cors can always stand and shoot.
Cors are slavers.
Cors got better save, 5+ (or 4+ vs noncombat) to 6+ (improved to 5+ with shields for 10pts).

Thoughts: shooting in 2 ranks and swiftreform really hlp for 10strong cors shooting unit (compared to in 7th). It's going to be a lot more challenging manuevering them though (than a crossbow unit shooting from long distance). However, if you manage to do it right, they can end up causing much wounds with their shots vs units with low save and also perhaps give a flank bonus in a CC to break and run down an opponent (with help of slaver rule!).


I actually just played my first game with corsairs ever! Had a 7x3 AddHW SSSbanner-unit that got joined by both a dreadlord and bsb before fighting occured. They got a +1attack cauldron blessing and fought a big marauder block (after losing 14 guys to a single hellcannon shot - ouch!). I eventually won that one after a couple of CC rounds when they lost steadfast. I had expected the marauders to break sooner but I rolled terrible and he saved many with 5+ WS due to parry/mark of Tz.

Gonna play with them again and also try 5x2 repeater handbow unit!


The 8 inch range of the handbow is not impressive still you can move 5 inch without getting minus too hit score plus 5+8 = 13 inch shooting reach.
R handbow can always stand and shoot, so you move near enemy you get at least 2 shooting rounds.

You can made the corsair unit more bigger then 10, put a hero with Black dragon egg intoo it. Now the unit have more punch intoo combat and because of a corsair unit gets close at enemy unit the flame template can be used + corsair handbows.
if you do this the unit will be cost more points.
(for the price of the hero + magic item you could get an other unit corsairs for it).
Just try things out and take a look what is fun too play.


Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:31 pm
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Corsair
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8713
Location: Hag Graef
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Today in a test battle, my 10 RHB corsairs were the unit of the day:
S&S four charging Brets, killing 2 (great luck on my side), then Bret fluffed all his attacks, I killed 1 and had still 1 rank bonus, he fled, corsairs made a 5 fleeing dice rerolled to 1 resulting in an easy capture.
Admittedly, I had a disgusting luck throughout the whole game. But this luck was permitted by the tools brought by these corsairs: S&S and slavery rule.

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Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:53 pm
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Executioner
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
Location: Hell
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MarkusSWE wrote:
Meteor wrote:
at 8" range no marching allowed. I found not much opportunity to shoot with my block of 15 in 6x2+3 formation :(


Remember in 8th, you still can march if you pass a ld test! (pg 26)


oh i meant you can't march and shoot. So the max range of your RBH is 13", well within a successful charge range for most enemy units apart from dwarves. So I'm saying you won't get much opportunity to get a bonus shot before making a S&S reaction.

And glad to hear your RHB corsairs worked well for you Calisson! That is some crazy luck. I wasn't able to drop a single knight for the life of me! Only with KB did I drop some, even GW didn't do me much justice :(

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:32 am
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Black Guard

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 285
Location: Italy
Post 
I think Corsairs are an obvious choice in any 8th ed. DE army, but I also think Witch Elves are viable.
No more victory points for unit reduced below 1/2 their initial unit strength.
In order to earn points from witches the enemy must completely destroy them.

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Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:40 pm
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Trainee Warrior
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Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:28 am
Posts: 48
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Demetrius the Betrayer wrote:
Icing Death wrote:
I actually run a block of 40 corsairs. At 10 wide they are amazing as they benefit from the horde rule, allowing 3 ranks to attack. I put a bsb with the banner of nagarythe and gave the standar bearer the banner of murder. I also put a master with aod and cd. The combo works quite well and has performed exceptionally in all my games. It is extremely resiliant.

Icing Death


It is also a Deathstar 8) . And you would expect something that costs about 800 points to be 'extremely resiliant' :P


Well honestly, I wouldn't call it a deathstar. Sure, the unit costs 890 points, but it does its job of being a horde by anchoring my battle line. The whole point of a horde is to stay on the table and dish a lot of attacks. They are supposed to be dangerous. I play a lot of dwarf, lizardmen, woc, and ogre players and they all run hordes as well. But the problem is that they are tougher and stronger than elves most of the time. That means wounding on 5+. So the unbreakbale banner is there so I have some sort of unit which doesn't flee even if I take a lot of damage. Elves have a disadvantage in the new edition, sure we have higher initiative and WS but it doesn't matter, most armies out their have tougher and stronger core that mow through us. I am just trying to level the playing field. I don't run a very competitive list or a cheesy one. Otherwise I would run a 50 man spearmen unit instead of 40 corsairs. Its cheaper and more effective. So dude, its not a deathstar. I mean I didn't even take an assassin.

Icing Death

EDIT: spelling and grammar.

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Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:04 am
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Assassin
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:48 pm
Posts: 531
Location: Australia, the place where kangaroo's hop down the street with a can of fosters in their pouch
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i used 18 corsairs with RHB's recently against my mates ogres (1000 pts).

i opted for the banner of eternal flame.

i let him get the regen spell off on his unit of 5 bulls + bruiser

i moved close and shot and shot again when he charged. killed 3 bulls all up. then finished off the other 2 bulls in CC, and run down the bruiser.

quite a nice combo if you know there's a good chance of facing regenerating troops/monsters.

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Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:46 pm
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:43 pm
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Location: Yorkshire
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If I had the models I'd run a horde of Corsairs because it would be fun and will certainly look cool.

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Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:57 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:28 am
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It is extremely fun and looks very cool. 8)

Icing Death

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Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:09 am
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Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Hehe, I have 20 corsairs, maybe I'll buy 20 more for that horde. Would be fun :)

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Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:40 am
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Warrior
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:43 pm
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Location: Yorkshire
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I'm starting to think that a second battalion box will be a worthwhile investment. It will be enough to give me a horde of corsairs and provide much need reinforcements for my spear and crossbow units.

_________________
.........|\~
....\~| \
....|\./.\
.r/_\ /___\ç
.\======/¨
~~~~~~~~~

These are the voyages of the Black Arc Enterprise..........


Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:40 pm
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