Crossbow Unit Size
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
Crossbow Unit Size
I've been wondering which is better, one unit of 20 RxBs or 2 units of 10? The former will do better if it gets roped into combat, while the latter gives you more tactical flexibility in being able to target two different unit if need be (firing 40 shots at a lone mage or unit of fast cav seems like a waste of firepower that could be better used elsewhere).
A bigger unit also gets more benefit from items like the Guiding Eye and various buffs, but this only applies to lists that take such items.
A bigger unit also gets more benefit from items like the Guiding Eye and various buffs, but this only applies to lists that take such items.
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Blaqkheart wrote:I like taking 2 groups of 20. Swift reform in 5x4 and flanking once the opposing army is held down by one of my anchors and buffs from the cauldron make a devastating combo.
I do the same with a group of 24. Swift reform to 6x4.
And when I don't have a Guiding eye I take 2 units of 10 (5x2 formation)
Both work really well
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Persuader wrote:Blaqkheart wrote:I like taking 2 groups of 20. Swift reform in 5x4 and flanking once the opposing army is held down by one of my anchors and buffs from the cauldron make a devastating combo.
I do the same with a group of 24. Swift reform to 6x4.
And when I don't have a Guiding eye I take 2 units of 10 (5x2 formation)
Both work really well
Oddly enough, I don't use a guiding eye. I may see if I can arrange that, as it seems like a popular and sensible option....I don't know what I didn't include it with one of my sorceresses.
Is Guiding Eye really worth 25pts? Assuming a unit of 20 RxB hitting on 5s (either long range, swift reform, or stand and shoot) it gives you and average of 8.889 additional hits. Not bad, but you still have to wound.
If hitting on 4s (at close range) its an additional 10 hits on average, again, still requiring a wound role.
So is an additional 8-10 hits of RxB fire per game worth 25pts, or is that better spent elsewhere?
If hitting on 4s (at close range) its an additional 10 hits on average, again, still requiring a wound role.
So is an additional 8-10 hits of RxB fire per game worth 25pts, or is that better spent elsewhere?
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Honestly, I went back and looked at the guiding eye after this post and decided that it isnt worth 25 points for a one time use. I don't see why it's so popular. On the other hand, it can come in good use if there is a unit that is coming towards you that may cause trouble and shedding some extra models off wouldn't be bad use of the guiding eye. I think it's situational, and I probably won't be taking one. As far as it being worth 25 points I think that it's random and depends on the rolls. If you re-roll and only hit a couple of extra times then it doesnt make up for the points, but if you reroll and hit with almost all the misses you had before then it probably was worth it. Still too risky with me, as I'm already struggling with fitting in points for improvements to my list.
Re: Crossbow Unit Size
Maldor wrote:I've been wondering which is better, one unit of 20 RxBs or 2 units of 10? The former will do better if it gets roped into combat, while the latter gives you more tactical flexibility in being able to target two different unit if need be (firing 40 shots at a lone mage or unit of fast cav seems like a waste of firepower that could be better used elsewhere).
A bigger unit also gets more benefit from items like the Guiding Eye and various buffs, but this only applies to lists that take such items.
I am no fan of larger crossbow units. I want to cover a lot of the armyfield by spreading my army out and having the flexibility to shoot at different targets as you point out. Also, I would like to have the deploying advantage of many units and prefer not to risk too many points at one place (of this fragile kind).
No rbxunit is supposed to get into combat. Of course, sometimes it can't be avoided, but I don't think that's good enough of an argument to field larger units of them.
Because of swiftreform and only 5wide (5x2), chances are you can avoid CC in many situations (which was harder in 7th).
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I use guiding eye for a unit of 30 rxb men. i deploy them in 15x2, then reform to 10x3 (usually) to receive a charge. i did the maths on that in another thread, so im not gonna do it here again. suffice it to say that is better than deploying in 3x10 from the start.
Leis assume my opponent gets the first turn and i can do the following actions:
turn 1): shoot at long range
turn 2): reform + shoot at short range
turn 3): stand and shoot
my unit of 30 rxb WITH the guiding eye will then cause 60 hits on the enemy before CC starts.
if i instead of the guiding eye bought 2.5 extra rxb (so 5 extra shots) and did the exact same thing (reformed to 11x3, so all the new rxb can shoot). i will only cause 51,67 hits before the enemy reaches me.
if we instead assume i get the first turn, and can take the following actions:
turn 1): move + shoot long range
turn 2): shoot at long range
turn 3): reform + shoot at close range
turn 4): stand and shoot
Then i will cause 70 hits with guiding eye (turn 2). and if i instead had 2.5 extra rxb i would only cause 62.5 hits.
this allows me to conclude that assuming you will have a character in the unit (sorceress or bsb usually) that does not need the magic item points for anything else, the guiding eye will cause more dmg than 2.5 extra rxb assuming your unit is large enough. 30 is large enough. a unit of 20 that reforms to 5x4 to recieve a charge (compared to recieving 5 extra shots per turn) is actually large enough too, but just barely.
so, Guiding eye is your friend if you like massive units for shooters, but its not competitive if you want your units small (below 20). All in all, i can really recommend a unit of 30 rxb with a character for guiding eye. it has served me very well indeed so far in 8th.
Leis assume my opponent gets the first turn and i can do the following actions:
turn 1): shoot at long range
turn 2): reform + shoot at short range
turn 3): stand and shoot
my unit of 30 rxb WITH the guiding eye will then cause 60 hits on the enemy before CC starts.
if i instead of the guiding eye bought 2.5 extra rxb (so 5 extra shots) and did the exact same thing (reformed to 11x3, so all the new rxb can shoot). i will only cause 51,67 hits before the enemy reaches me.
if we instead assume i get the first turn, and can take the following actions:
turn 1): move + shoot long range
turn 2): shoot at long range
turn 3): reform + shoot at close range
turn 4): stand and shoot
Then i will cause 70 hits with guiding eye (turn 2). and if i instead had 2.5 extra rxb i would only cause 62.5 hits.
this allows me to conclude that assuming you will have a character in the unit (sorceress or bsb usually) that does not need the magic item points for anything else, the guiding eye will cause more dmg than 2.5 extra rxb assuming your unit is large enough. 30 is large enough. a unit of 20 that reforms to 5x4 to recieve a charge (compared to recieving 5 extra shots per turn) is actually large enough too, but just barely.
so, Guiding eye is your friend if you like massive units for shooters, but its not competitive if you want your units small (below 20). All in all, i can really recommend a unit of 30 rxb with a character for guiding eye. it has served me very well indeed so far in 8th.
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Panic domino starts when the last survivor of any unit is killed. In 7th edition, a unit starting the turn at US<5 could not panic anyone. Now, small/depleted units become tempting targets, in order to panic other units with their total destruction.
Note that this is valid also in melee: if a single survivor is facing his fate, better prepare other units around (not in melee themselves) to resist a panic test.
The other risk of panicking is to flee across another unit.
Note that this is valid also in melee: if a single survivor is facing his fate, better prepare other units around (not in melee themselves) to resist a panic test.
The other risk of panicking is to flee across another unit.
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