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"Must Have" Druchii units? 
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Warrior

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New De player here, and I was just wondering if some of the experienced players could tell me what they think are the must have units that should be in just about every armylist. Thanks in advance :D


Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:52 pm
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Dragon Lord
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Harpies.

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Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:56 pm
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Generalissimo
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Not really.

One of the joys of the druchii is that our units are all very good and you don't need to have a specific type of unit in your army to play well.

That said, common popular choices include:
- Hydra
- Black Guard
- Cold One Knights
- Dark Riders (these are the closest to a 'must' unit that I can think of)
- Harpies

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Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:04 pm
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Keep in mind that we are now in a new edition. In the last edition of the game, most players would easily cite Harpies and Dark Riders as "must have" choices, since their cheap point cost and extreme mobility let Dark Elf generals use them to dictate movement and the flow of battle.

Now, with major revisions to the way movement works in Warhammer Fantasy, both units are a lot less popular and are appearing in fewer and fewer lists.

With 8th edition in mind, I would easily say that Spearmen and Crossbowmen are going to be valuable staples of most lists. Our Core is excellent, and both of these units are very strong. I think the only time you won't see at least one of these units in a Dark Elf list is if someone is creating a themed Corsair list, and using Corsairs for his Core choices instead.

Also, as Red... mentioned, the there are a number of other units that are very popular. Of the ones he mentioned, the Hydra is by far the most universally popular. In fact, it's so popular, that some players don't take them simply because they want to stand apart from other Dark Elf lists.

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Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:12 pm
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Harpies are still essential.

Best War Machine Hunters
You can still park them behind enemy units as they break and maybe not run down, but cause extra casualties (even a single harpy can do that now)
Their main job - being pain in the ass - is still very much available.

One thing they can't reliably do anymore is march blocking... but nobody can do that.

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Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:50 pm
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There is one single must-have unit:
a sorceress.

There are many nice-to-have units, as mentioned above.
There are a few units to avoid: DH without COB, Manticore heroes spring to mind, along with the CO riding sorceress.

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Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:46 pm
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I have to agree with Dalmar that our faster units like Harpies and DR's still have a place in the 8th edition.
As He said when you get behind the enemy strange things can happen and
now the enemy dosn't get points for half a unit eliminated. When he starts to turn those RnF units he looses movement. March blocking is not the only thing that these units perform. Remember also DR's have shooting capabilities that can be taken to the enemy. Harpies can go over terrain that blocks any other units we have.
What will those spearmen and xbows do when faced with armies that have ranged weapons that can out range them?
Don't get me wrong, I think this army needs those RnF units but I am just not sold on the idea that our moble units are not going to be effective in the 8th. Sorry just my 2 cents.

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Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:00 pm
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RBTs usually make their way into my lists, as do War Hydras but every list for me is different. I used to use Dark Riders in every list, they have failed me constantly so I stopped using them, as have Cold One Riders. Harpies just aren't effective for me in this edition, nor are Shades. Both have been cut from my standard lists. The only constant over the last 2 years or so for me has been spears, and with the latest edition I now use 2 units of them and a unit of rxb, in every list. .

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Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:09 pm
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Warrior

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Calisson wrote:
There is one single must-have unit:
a sorceress.

There are many nice-to-have units, as mentioned above.
There are a few units to avoid: DH without COB, Manticore heroes spring to mind, along with the CO riding sorceress.


What makes you say a sorceress? No one else mentioned it.


Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:16 am
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Sorceresses. I know some people don't want to go magic heavy, but the magic phase can do a ton of damage.


Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:36 am
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It depends really on what you want out of the game.
If you are trying to reliably win every game you play, I'd say War Hydras, Cauldron of Blood, Supreme Sorceress, Dreadlord, Spears, Black Guard, Crossbows, A small mixture of Shades/Dark Riders/Harpies

Don't bother with Witches/Manticores/ Death Hags/ Corsairs/ Knights/ Chariot/ Bolt Thrower.

However I think there is more to warhammer than such an approach and hence everything should be tried and sampled, Challenge yourself occasionally you never know what might happen.

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Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:25 am
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My detailed advice: D.R.A.I.C.H. Dark Elves units under 8th edition.

- Magic is essential in order to shut down the opposing magic, and anyway you'll get the winds of magic available so one sorceress is a minimum.
Also, Dark Magic is easier to cast now, and all other Lores have been tremendously improved.

- I'm surprised nobody mentioned the BSB. He is the closest thing I consider as vital, except in some specifically designed armies (such as mine).

- A Dreadlord has several uses: a) Ld (important but not vital as all our troops have a nice Ld), b) dragon rider, and c) magic object bearer (to become a killing machine, or to provide magic resistance).

- Cauldron of Blood very nice indeed, since the tendency is to get larger units.

- War Hydras, Cold One Knights, dragons, COC (not mentioned yet), shielded DR (not mentioned either): a couple of any of these are great as flankers.

- Crossbowmen, RBTs, RXB DRs: shooting is less vital than previously but still very handy. Crossbowmen can also make a mass unit. Not vital nevertheless, but you'll resent having none of them. RXB DR are very expensive for what they do.

- Spears, Black Guard, Crossbows, Corsairs: any of these make a great large unit to serve as the backbone of the army. Still not vital, because MSU not dead.

- Shades/Dark Riders/Harpies (DP Master surprisingly forgotten): one or two of these remain vital as warmachine hunters.

- Execs, WE: specialist use, or fancy mass unit.

I cannot agree to rule out Witches/ Corsairs/ Knights/ Chariot/ Bolt Thrower.

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Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:22 am
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Calisson wrote:
, Manticore heroes spring to mind, along with the CO riding sorceress.
I'm trying out a manticore hero over the next few games. Black dragon egg and sword of might plus a lance and full mundane armour. With s6,t6 and a breath weapon on the charge (once) plus the manticore's attacks and thunderstomps, he has the potential to boost one combat very significantly.

Also, in 8th, I see no reason to avoid the cold one sorceress anymore if you want a mounted soceress and can't afford the pegasus. Your BSB nearby will let her reroll her stupidity. Play her in your knights if you take any. Give her the pendant and she can tie up a hero while the unit do their buisiness. Not a fantastic choice, but not the 'must avoid' it was in the last edition.

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Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:56 am
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Warrior

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question


why is the manticore so hated on?


Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:51 am
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Toddums wrote:
question


why is the manticore so hated on?


Because people think that T5 W4 no saves leaves something to be desired... tbh, I have no problem with it and use the Manti occasionally. As long as you have dark riders and harpies to kill missile troops, they can survive long enough to do some real damage.

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Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:15 am
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Manti fear not only all shooting troops (warmachines included) but also retaliation in melee:
- sure, they will butcher many models, but more will step in, and all of them will aim first at the mount (which has no save), and when it is killed, at the rider (who, becoming footed, looses the +1 save due to being mounted).
- Terror at distance does not cause panic anymore.
- breath works only once (albeit better than previously).
- Furthermore, there is no more US5 to break ranks.
- Finally, they have no rank, so pretty much anything with 5 models remaining alive is steadfast against them.

Imagine: you charge a large unit of goblins on the side with the Manti, like you did in 7th ed. You were prepared to kill half a zillion gobbos, alas, the champion moved across the unit and challenged you.
Challenge ACR + sidecharging + charge - gobbos' ranks - gobbos' banner = 7-4 = 3 = you win. They are stubborn and can reroll their test on general's Ld. If they pass one more rerollable Ld test, they can reorganize and turn 90° to face you.
Next turn, you have no more hatred, no more sidecharging, no more charging bonus, still thunderstomp. The goblin unit has lost 1 model so far. You hit them and kill scores of them, but more step in and hit you back with 4 front models plus 4 or 8 rear models, all of them hitting the Manti. They have less rank bonus by now, but still banner & musician. If they manage to wound the Manti, chances are that YOU loose. Even if you stay there, you've lost frenzy.


On the plus side,
- being a large model is no longer a liability,
- a Manti may benefit of a hard cover if a significant part of the model hides behind troops, while it will still be able to charge above those troops.
- frenzy is no longer a liability: the rider can select to reroll his Ld test to control the beast and becalm its frenziness, and even if frenzied nevertheless, another Ld test can be made (and rerolled) to refrain from charging.
- thunderstomp adds CR.
- killing the beast concedes... 0 VP if the rider survives (even fleeing but still on the table, he concedes 0 VP).
- terror/fear may reduce the WS of the opponent.

I would be more cautious to put a BSB on the Manti: if ever they loose a combat and flee (it might happen to the CR), the BSB is autokilled and concedes 100VP. The Manti auto-Rhaaaargs, pursuing the fatal issue in order to concede the VP for the whole unit.

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Last edited by Calisson on Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:29 am
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Cold One Knight

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Calisson wrote:
Imagine: you charge a large unit of goblins on the side with the Manti, like you did in 7th ed. You were prepared to kill half a zillion gobbos, alas, the champion moved across the unit and challenged you.
Challenge ACR + sidecharging + charge - gobbos' ranks - gobbos' banner = 7-4 = 3 = you win. They are stubborn and can reroll their test on general's Ld. If they pass one more rerollable Ld test, they can reorganize and turn 90° to face you.


Just to make you cry: the lord will kill the champ before the manti can strike (cause he his faster). So you'll kill him with MAX 4 attacks, so 4 resolutions at best, plus charge, plus rank (6 resolution at best)

He got 3 ranks, banner. You win, steadfast. Same result, but important to note.


Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:56 pm
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Quote:
Mount's Frenzy doesn't give anymore +1attack to the rider.


It actually does in case of the Manticore because it clearly states that if the "Uncontrollable" test is failed, both manticore and the rider are subject to Frenzy.

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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
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Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:57 pm
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If you are charging a large unit of goblins with a manti alone, you shouldn't be using a manti.

The manti really shines when you're fighting smaller units of elites (they still exist, trust me!) in the flanks.

Of course the Manti is VERY far from a "must have" unit, but I take one every game because I like the challenge.

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Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:31 pm
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As a general note when using monstrous mounts, you don't want to charge anything that has a champion unless you also have a champion to step in and accept the challenge. If you don't, your Lord will kill the champ and your mount will be unable to attack, as has been mentioned above, and you run the risk of losing the combat by a large margin without the mount's attacks and Thunderstomp.

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Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:53 pm
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For me harpies are still a must, hard cover makes my opponent's still miserable. :D
A H. Sorc. is still good to have.

two of my favorite unit's since 7ed. are Dark pegs master, and rxb's. and for me their are not only a must have but must have multiple choices.

a unit or two of DR with rxb's are still very useful, but not mandatory. :cry:

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Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:31 am
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Seems to me that virtually no matter your playstyle the one thing you really should bring is a BSB. They are just too useful to leave at home these days.

After that I'd personally pick RXB warriors with shields. Still the best core unit in the Dark Elf army.


Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:37 am
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Warrior

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Played my first de games today


was only a 500 point game, but I have to say the Shades were the mvp. Probably will include them in my list from now on:D

Warriors also did well, aside from being exploded by a miscast D:


Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:37 am
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Slave on the Altar

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cold one knights.


Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:10 pm
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sjd wrote:
cold one knights.



what makes you say that?

They seem too unreliable


Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:39 am
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