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Confused with dark elves what should I do? 
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:43 am
Posts: 18
Location: look out your window...if you see me,your there
I'm new to WFB and DE and was looking for help at my local GW but no one plays DE so looking for help I found Druchii.net and decided to ask some questions and read D.R.A.I.C.H. but I keep hearing so many different styles of play that it's just overwhelming of what to choose. I'm afraid that if i go one way it will end horribly and i'll have to buy a lot of units all over again. I literaly CANT afford to make mistakes,I donty have much money to spend (im sorta poor) I just dont know what to do. Im realy sorry if this is to many questions or if its just stupid to ask all this, im just confused. please help. thanks i realy appreciate it


Last edited by Warghost57 on Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:21 am
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Rending Star
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Start small and learn step by step is my suggestion.

Starting with the army book and the battalion box, for example. You cannot really do anything wrong with that, and it gives you four different units already to play and experiment with (you could also use the Corsairs as Shades, for example, to experiment with Scouts/Skirmishers). As you also need a hero, I would suggest a Sorceress on foot. This is also a choice you will almost always use.

The Spearmen unit from the battalion is too small for a serious army, so the next step would certainly be a box of Dark Elf Warriors to beef them up and add some more RXB as well.

Also, just watch games in the store, when others play. It does not really matter what armies they play, but you will get a better idea about the game that way in general. Best to watch experienced players, of course, as they usually do less mistakes. ;)

Bye
Thanee


Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:40 am
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Slave on the Altar

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:49 pm
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personally i own every unit in the dark elf army, given i do own more of certain units then others but i do own them all. if you buy your army all at once then yes it is hella expensive. start small, buy one sorceress model and a model to be master/dreadlord. get spears, xbows started playing small games, then get bigger and bigger. For example you could say buy a unit every two weeks or so, its some what affordable then.

i tend to change my DE style of play so that i dont get bored. even if you buy a set of units and play a "style" and decide you would rather play a different way, that doesnt mean you cant use those models, our army is able be used several ways, its not typically unit dependent


Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:57 pm
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Generalissimo
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Quote:
I'm new to WFB and DE and was looking for help at my local GW but no one plays DE


Much though I hate to say it, the store staff should still have suggestions, even if they don't play DE themselves...

Thanee and gamblemonkey have it right: a good approach is to start small and build up, beginning with reliable core units such as warriors and crossbowmen (the battalion box is a good idea).

One frustration in any collectable game is that no matter how many models you buy, there's always a sense of not having the right models. Even when you've brought an entire army, it can be frustrating because you want to put together an army with a particular scheme to it, but the models you have don't enable you to do so (this has been the experience for lots of veteran players in the new warhammer edition, as many people don't/didn't have enough models to form the new horde units that the rules encourage). I guess my point is that, no matter how strategically you buy, you're always going to have a sense of not being complete. Don't worry about that: it's common for all of us :)

Two other quick comments:

The good thing about DE is that there is nothing in our army that is unviable. Even the much (and righly) denigrated Manticore can still do well in battles and is a very fun piece to play with. So don't worry too much about whether or not you are buying naff units when you make your purchases: everything in the DE list has the potential to be strong, and most likely won't be wasted money.

When I first purchased Black Guard, I was told by one of my 'experienced' fellow players that they were a waste of points (and therefore, presumably, money). Turns out they are one of the best units in the game: as long as you use them right.

The other comment is to suggest that you consider using proxies for models when you start playing (particularly if you want to play bigger battles quite quickly) as that will allow you to test out whether a particular type of unit or character fits your playing style BEFORE dolling out the cash to buy the models. Most opponents won't mind you doing that in the short term, particularly as you've only just started (although it would get tedious in the longer term).

Oh, and finally, do check ebay for cheaper models. You can get some good deals on there: particularly if you are willing to go with pre-6/7th ed models...

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Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:27 pm
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Rending Star
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Red... wrote:
Much though I hate to say it, the store staff should still have suggestions, even if they don't play DE themselves...


From my experience, a new player is better off not asking GW staff about their army choices. ;)

Quote:
When I first purchased Black Guard, I was told by one of my 'experienced' fellow players that they were a waste of points (and therefore, presumably, money). Turns out they are one of the best units in the game: as long as you use them right.


If that was still back in 6th edition, they kinda were a waste of points there. ;)

Bye
Thanee


Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:32 pm
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Here's good news for you: None of the units are bad units. All of them are fun to use and have unique skills to bring.
That said, 8th edition has some unique things to it:
1) Big units for the win - This means you probably want at least 1 unit of 30. Is this spears and shield or crossbows is up to you. I like 30 crossbows making the enemy look like porcupine thing (at least right now) but am looking at beefing up spears in the future.
2) Magic for the win - Dark Elves are one the A+ spell caster armies in 8th edition. Power of Darkness is great for generating extra dice to blast past enemy dispels. No matter what, look at 1-2 sorceress figures.
3) Cool for the win - You get the coolest figures on the planet. Like big monsters? Get a Hydra! Like dinosaurs? Get Cold One Knights! Like shadowy creepy bounty hunter types? Get Dark Riders! Etc. Etc. I used Reapers for my first battles and loved them! I've SLOWLY added two hydras to my collection but the point is: They are not manditory!

SO, the bottom line for me is this: You will own your miniatures for a long time and will have to spend a lot of time painting them, so focus on what you want and you will end up with a competetive unique army.

Good luck and have fun.

~B~


Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:59 pm
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Warrior

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I switch from Warriors of Chaos to DE and did exactly as everybody
above sugested. Bought a battalion box and an extra box of spearman/
RxC and stared from there. Then added units as I could afford them.
I love the army they are great fun to play. Good luck :)
Douglas


Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:16 pm
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Battalion box is the way to go, adding a footeded sorceress as being already said.

Next? Try to use proxy models (borrowed? lego? paper?) once to get a feeling, rather than spending many £€$ for something you'll turn not to have pleasure to play.

See the post hyperlinked there =>Save money; buy a Dragon?

If you're tight on money, start with a character heavy army.
Reviewing the models:
Sorceresses are one of the best investment: you could eat up to nearly 50% of the army's value with models that are cheap and fun to play (with and against).
Better, you could use one model as a level 4 and in the next game as a level 1.
Just don't buy the sorceress on the CO, she is frustrating to play. A sorc on a Pegasus is nice.

Lords on dragon are easy to play. They cost a lot but still much less than if you had to buy as many pts of troops. Just beware that your dragonlord cannot be played in small games where he would exceed the 25% cap.

Assassins are great to spend pts rather than £€$, but they are not easy to master for a beginner (not for me either...).

A Footed dreadlord or dreadlord on CO is quite good, if you don't like magic.

A COB is a very valuable addition: once you tried it, you won't leave home without it! But you could start without.


If you're happy with the battalion, then a second battalion can be considered, as it is the best deal.

Be aware that you will wish to get sooner or later:
5-10 COK, with 1 FC,
25-30 corsairs, AHW, FC with SSS
20 BG, FC (especially if you don't have a COB)
25 Execs, FC (they are pretty much useless in small units) and only if you have a COB
5 to 30 WE, FC in large units,
5-12 Shades, with AHW.

Warriors are so cheap (pts) that you need many £€$ to get enough of them (~30, FC). RXBmen are rather expensive for the pts. You'd want up to 20 of them, probably all with shields, but only musician.

The two rare units are useful but cost many £€$ for the points spent.

The worst are DR and harpies. There are ways to arrange other models into them.
Try to avoid DRs, they are very vulnerable.
Harpies are easier to use.
At present there is no COC. Wait and see when it is realeased.

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Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:49 pm
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I got 2 battalions and made 20 rxbows the rest into spears 20 corsairs (hand weapons) 20 with hand bows running in 2*10 plus the knights added a couple of character models sorceress's and lord/master and it's about 2k pts fairly cheap (for this hobby lol) and works well for me. I'm going to add a manticore converted from the IoB box griffen and may add a hydra later but so far I've seen no need of one, so go with what you like and welcolm to the slaughter.

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Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:41 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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thanks guys for all the help.i'll just start small and build up :D.but i am still not sure about the execs...since they have GW and ASL i think theyed get slaughtered befor I can get them into combat or be shot down by my freinds bowmen(he plays HE)Thanks for all the tips i realy appreciate it


Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:37 pm
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warghost57 wrote:
thanks guys for all the help.i'll just start small and build up :D.but i am still not sure about the execs...since they have GW and ASL i think theyed get slaughtered befor I can get them into combat or be shot down by my freinds bowmen(he plays HE)Thanks for all the tips i realy appreciate it


If you go with Executioners, there's a good chance you'll need a pretty big-sized unit (21+ models.) They WILL take casualties in every combat they're part of, but if you equip them the buffs from the Cauldron of blood and make sure they're a large regiment, then you can commit them to multiple fights over the course of the game and feel confident that they can generate results without being completely wiped out.

If you're low on money though, I might stay away from Witch Elves, Executioners and Black Guard for the time being. A full unit of 20+ models is very expensive, and you may want to experiment with more cost-efficient purchases or else proxy these infantry types before you purchase them.

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Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:56 pm
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Here is a suggestion for a build up list. Start from the top and go down :)



- get 25 spearmen, FC
- get sorceress on foot
- get 14 RxBs, musician
- get 6 Cold one Knights, dreadknight
- get master/dreadlord on cold one
- get War Hydra
- get 5 harpies
- get Cauldron of Blood
- get 5 shades
- get the spearmen up to 40
- get the crossbows up to 20-30 or get a second infantry unit.

From there it depends alot of playing style :)


Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:09 am
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Aure, you forgot the corsairs. :evil:
As they come in the Battalion box, they should be taken.
A unit of 20, AHW, FC, SSS comes in the highest priority! ;)

Agree on the rest of the list, with some minor adjustments:
- spearmen probably better without shields (keep them low cost). Consider that they have the warbanner.
- RXBmen probably better with shields. 10 per unit is enough.
- COK, I'd take the musician and 4 naked COK. The next 5 should include one champ and the pennant bearer, bought at the same time as the Master on CO.
- 6 harpies are better than 5.
- 6 shades are better than 5, and they should get AHW.

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Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:24 am
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Don't go with executioners for now, concentrate on bulking out the back bone of your army first. In the form of spears and crossbows. Executioners are used for more specialised tasks, you will need a massive block of 20+ before it can be played as a frontline unit. As mentioned, proxy them first before you decide on getting some or not if you're unsure.

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Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:13 pm
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My suggestion for a list would be closely built around the battalion box.

You get 20 Corsairs, 28 Warriors (Spears or RXB), but only 12 Shields, and 5 Cold One Knights with one battalion box.

Because both Spearmen and Repeater Crossbowmen benefit from shields, it is a good idea to get some extra shields eventually (regular DE shield sprues are available from GW). At first, the Repeater Crossbowmen can do without (it's probably ok to declare them to have shields, or just play them without).

Assuming a total of two battalion boxes, I would build at least 10-12 (up to 20) Corsairs with Repeater Handbows to use as Shades (they certainly work as Shade models), assemble 20 Warriors as Repeater Crossbowmen, and the rest as Spearmen.

Here's an example army, that could be built that way, step by step, in ~$100 chunks. All Shades are converted Corsairs (not much to convert there, really).

Rulebook and Armybook are assumed, because those are really the first step to play Warhammer.

Example 1000 pts Army

What to buy
$90 Dark Elf Battalion
$15 Sorceress (on foot)

What to play
250 Sorceress Level 3, Sacrificial Dagger (Dark Magic)
87 12 Warriors with Shields, Musician
165 16 Repeater Crossbowmen, Musician
200 15 Corsairs, Full Command, Sea Serpent Standard
210 5 Cold One Knights, Full Command
85 5 Shades with Additional Handweapons

Example 1500 pts Army

What to buy
$90 Dark Elf Battalion
$8 4x DE shield sprue

What to play
160 Sorceress Level 2, Sacrificial Dagger (Dark Magic)
267 36 Warriors with Shields, Full Command
105 10 Repeater Crossbowmen, Musician
105 10 Repeater Crossbowmen, Musician
320 27 Corsairs, Full Command, Sea Serpent Standard
335 10 Cold One Knights, Full Command, Banner of Murder
102 6 Shades with Additional Handweapons
102 6 Shades with Additional Handweapons

Example 2000 pts Army

What to buy
$40 Cauldron of Blood
$60 War Hydra
$8 4x DE shield sprue

What to play
315 Sorceress Level 4, Sacrificial Dagger, Pendant of Khaeleth (Lore of Shadows)
225 Death Hag BSB with Cauldron of Blood
260 35 Warriors with Shields, Full Command
105 10 Repeater Crossbowmen with Shields, Musician
105 10 Repeater Crossbowmen with Shields, Musician
270 22 Corsairs, Full Command, Sea Serpent Standard
335 10 Cold One Knights, Full Command, Banner of Murder
102 6 Shades with Additional Handweapons
102 6 Shades with Additional Handweapons
175 1 War Hydra

That's about $300 for a decent 2000 pts army core, which can be upgraded in any direction.

Bye
Thanee


Last edited by Thanee on Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:58 pm
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Dark Rider

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well, i would suggest to drop off the shields on the warriors thou.

they get a lot less out of it compared to crossbows do, for a relative bigger investment in points.

since ye cannot choose not to use spears, shields are not worth it anymore on warriors, so if ye are short on them, dont give them to them.

crossbows get a good RoI on shields thou, both the added As as the parry save and for a relative lesses point increase per model.


Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:47 pm
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I totally disagree on that. Warriors need as much armour save as they can get. They do not typically fight units, where their armour save is completely negated, and every saved wound means +1 to CR.

I would always take 30 Warriors with Shield over 35 Warriors without.

Bye
Thanee


Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:38 am
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Quote:
I totally disagree on that. Warriors need as much armour save as they can get. They do not typically fight units, where their armour save is completely negated, and every saved wound means +1 to CR.

I would always take 30 Warriors with Shield over 35 Warriors without.


Agreed.

- There is alot of S3/4 hordes around, and while a saved spearman is only 7 points it is also 1CR which can be crutial!

- In addition, some of the most potent ranged weapons in 8th like stone throwers and breath weapons usually allow an armour save. 5+ is worth it in many siturations. Massed bow shots have also become more popular.


Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:05 am
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To be honest anyone who wants to start a DE army will be overwhelmed at first with the amount of variety you can field and I say this with great pride. The power of the Druchii army is that each and evry unit works to one extent or another and thus any unit is viable depending on the overall list and ofcourse the odd fraction of the matchup. I have built up a sizable army with the druchii and with the waxing and waning of unit effectiveness and power between editions, I have used every single model I own. The only units I do not possess are Chariots and simply because I loathe the idea of them and dislike their looks being in any Dark Elf Army( I hope they remove it from the armybook and give us another monster in it's place) an Witch Elves because they are so damn hard to order from where I am from. DE I can say can be compared to Empire in a sense that you practically have all unit types you'll ever need. You have Spears, Crossbows, Elite Close Combat, Fast Cav, Medium Cav, Heavy Cav, Shooting fast Cav, Flyers, Flying Mounts etc etc. You have everything at your disposal. The learning curve is a little steeper but you'll end up mastering the game more and if you enjoy using a lot of tactics to win games DE is for you. DE for me is also more of a collectors army even before as the only plastic figs then were warriors. Aside from the new Cold Ones I have and the basic spears and crossbows, my entire army is metal around 5k+ worth and it's really worth it in the end. Go DE, you won't be disappointed in the long scheme of things.

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Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:29 am
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