Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:24 pm



Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Strongest enemies 
Author Message
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:02 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Antwerp
Which are the armies that will be dominating 8th edition?

My guess it will be something like this.

1) Dark Elves - Strong as always :D We have the option to take Horde units, 50 warriors with shields and FC is like 365points Heavily armoured troops = CoK, many monsters, good magic, high I and WS.
2) Deamons - exploitable, Kairos, good magic in general, Will have a hard time getting steadfast but that doesn't make them less powerfull
3) OnG
- Hordes of them, big numbers, T4, gobo's with nets .... actually good magic (defense)
4) Skaven - Numbers, dmg potential ...
5) Empire - Template weapons, detachments, cheap = BIG numbers.
6) Chaos - Much armour from chaos warriors and numbers from mauraders. High I and WS
7) high Elves - ASF, reliability
...
9) Beastmen - Really depend on there magic.
10) VC - Don't think they have enough magic now in 8th, havn't played them yet. That + low WS and I


Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:09 pm
Profile
Cold One Knight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:01 pm
Posts: 222
Location: England / Har Ganeth.
Post 
daemons would gain nothing from steadfast would they not?

and i don't think any army will be truely dominant, but as with any gamesystem, some will do better than others.


Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:13 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:02 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Antwerp
Post 
I thought that even if they lose the combat, BUT have more ranks and therefore are steadfast there demonic instability test would be taken on there basic Ld.
I've never played demons so I don't know anything about them really.


Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:22 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 11:13 pm
Posts: 1071
Post 
Daemons are now unstable, as per the BRB. The benefit they would potentially gain from steadfast (same with undead) is that their enemy does not benefit from it and will be more likely to break.

_________________
Lock up your children, shut all windows tight.
The Witch Elves are hunting for victims tonight.
When old hags do knock at your door, you must hide,
Your death is the gift sought by Khaine's pretty brides.


Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:33 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:54 am
Posts: 1444
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Post 
I think the first 3 forerunners are in their own bracket, and the last 5 are in their own bracket (to some extent) and everything in between is pretty interchangeable. The nice thing, however, is that I can reasonably see any army beating any other army much easier in 8th edition than they could in 7th edition. I would field any army against any other army and have an expectation for a reasonably decent fight.

1) High Elves: Terrifying offensive infantry blocks, wide array of support choices, Book of Hoeth/Teclis + easy access to additional Power Dice makes for a disgusting magic phase. ASF + ASF rerolls makes for supreme combat nastiness against anyone who has no shooting, but they are very vulnerable to template-hevy opponents or anything that can maximize Steadfast and hit back.

2) Lizardmen: Quite possibly THE powerhouse of 8th edition. Amazing magic, amazing combat, huge staying power, good resistance to missile fire, diverse troop choices, Salamanders. Their major limitation is that they have to watch out for Initiative-based spells, or they'll lose most of their army.

3) Dwarves: Specialized warmachines and durable, hard-hitting, fairly inexpensive infantry makes for a potent combination. If their shooting rolls poorly though, they'll struggle to stop a determined combat force, and Initiative-based spells will destroy them.

4) Warriors of Chaos: Can be tooled up to be the regimental army from hell. Great weapon wielding Marauders with two attacks each are incredibly cheap, and 3+ Ward Save Chosen make for a lethal combination. Access to strong lores, and the Hellcannon loves having big squishy 8th edition blocks to shoot at.

5) Empire: Cheap, reasonably skilled blocks of troops who can maximize steadfast, detachments for a bit of anti-block tricks, coupled with cheap characters with access to excellent wargear, plus cheap durable knights and dangerously effective shooting makes Empire a very potent force in 8th edition. They need to watch out for combat specialists who are able to reach their lines, as well as magic to pop open that Steamtank (oh right, don't forget the Steamtank; did I mention Toughness 10?) Empire can easily roll into a top 8th edition spot, but they don't have the consistent warmachines that Dwarves too, which means they can be crippled by a few bad dice in the first couple turns.

6) Dark Elves: Powerful magic, made more powerful by incredible Arcane Items. Some of the best Core choices in the game for 8th edition, and the Cauldron is amazing for regimental combat. Wide unit variety and incredible focused hitting power still lets them excel in every phase of the game, but they're overshadowed a bit by the High Elf Book of Hoeth/Elite infantry power build.

7) Daemons: Less potent than in 7th, but not by much. I think Daemon players are downplaying how nasty huge Bloodletter blocks with Heralds can be. There magic phase is simply better now, with their easy access to every spell from a mundane lore. The only Greater Daemon really hurt by the new rules is the Lord of Change, and even he is happy with the new magic lore and Power Dice availability. The Keeper is a powerhouse with re-rolls to hit and regaining wounds via melee attacks, the Great Unclean One loves having Thunderstomp, and the Bloodthirster doesn't mind return attacks due to his 3+ armor, 5+ ward. They all love being healed by Lore of Life.

8) Skaven: Lots of tarpits, a cheap Greyseer to sling Dreaded 13th every turn is gross, and they haven't lost any of their whacky killing power. The effectiveness of their big cheap Core regiments is amazing.

9) Greenskins: They're back in the game. Watched a Greenskin player destroy half a High Elf army with magic and shooting in Turn 1, then WAAAAGH!!! into their lines in Turn 2. Magic-granted ASF + rerolls to hit had the the High Elf player completely annihilated by the end of Turn 3. Cheap warmachines, cheap, durable hard-hitting Core troops, good hard-hitting unit variety, and cheap characters to free up plenty of points for everything.

10) Ogre Kingdoms: They ahve every reason to be pleased with themselves I think. Their characters love the new generic magic items, the Slaughtermaster is no longer suck in 3000+ point games, gnoblars are an incredibly cheap tarpit, the scraplauncher is a very nasty anti-regiment template, and noone wants to be charged by 12+ Ironguts with a Tyrant in them. These guys are nasty in 8th.

11) Vamp Counts: Not as bad as most players are saying. Still able to spell-spam pretty well, plus kit out a cheap Vampire to access any Lore of choice from the new rulebook. Grave Guard are still dangerous and lethal, the Varghulf likes having Stomp, and Ghouls are an amazing target for buffs from Lore of Beasts. I would still watch out for these guys.

12) Beastmen: Access to powerful Lores which have great synergy with their troops. Excellent infantry blocks with their strong mobility and re-rolls to hit. Cheap Core chariots can make for very hard charges, and Bestigors are an incredibly dangerous and point efficient purchase. Rare monsters made mostly useless though, and the whole army is hindered by lack of unit variety.

13) Wood Elves: Not as down and out as everyone things. Just try killing a unit of Treekin with shooting or in melee, and you'll see what I mean. Dryads are possibly the best Core choice in the game, the Treeman loves having Thunderstomp, and they have tremendous synergy with the Lore of Beasts or life. Also, S4 Glade Guard arrows from 40 archers really hurts.

14) Brets: Their army book stands up to the test of time pretty decently, though they're showing their age. The only cavalry army that can reasonably run a lot of ranks is a decent tool to have. Damsels love the new Lores, and cheap peasants actually have a place in 8th edition.

15) Tomb Kings: Well, I saw a pretty amazing combination of Wizard's Hat plus Incantations. Assuming the TK player rolls the average 7 Power Dice per turn, they can have a 19 Power Dice magic phase every turn, on average. Use that to fire volleys of arrows twice, or charge, or fire as many screaming skull catapult shots a turn as they can reasonably field, and you've got a force than can surprise people if they're underestimated.

_________________
There is no escape from Chaos. It marks us all.


Image
Image


Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:06 am
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
Location: Hell
Post 
try and withstand kaleida (is that how you spell it?) in a block of forty skeleton archers ^^

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:40 am
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 11:49 am
Posts: 527
Location: Wellington/Auckland New Zealand
Post 
Meteor wrote:
try and withstand kaleida (is that how you spell it?) in a block of forty skeleton archers ^^


A block of 40 T3 no save WS 2 and I2 models that fires a lot of poison shots but cant stand and shoot and costs a huge 800+ points. Yes please, bring it on

_________________
If I had a knife I would shoot you


Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:18 am
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
Location: Hell
Post 
It's not like it's the only unit on the table...and besides, you'll need to cover 625pts of core in 2500pt games anyway. I've seen it destroy twenty BG followed by twenty WE from shooting, which is like...meh, because DE are squishy anyway. But when I heard it destroyed twenty four temple guard and the old one dieing in CC from kaleida then that becomes a little scary. If you know what to dispel in his magic phase then you'll be fine, he has an uncanny way to drain your dice before the real stuff begins. Otherwise, he'll be throwing eighty poison shots at you every turn. I'm not sure if Chillwind will disable that, it's the only solution I have to it right now with the default lores I take, since he can move and shoot in his magic phase, so there's no point outflanking his archers.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:02 am
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 11:49 am
Posts: 527
Location: Wellington/Auckland New Zealand
Post 
That is some extreme rolling, on average those 80 shots would only cause 5.79 unsaved wounds on temple guard. If you were facing it all you would need to do would be to suicide some harpies into the unit to prevent it shooting and then it would be child's play to take it down in close combat, khalida is tough but not enough to take out a whole unit and the skeles add next to nothing to it's combat power.

_________________
If I had a knife I would shoot you


Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:35 am
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:03 am
Posts: 784
Post 
I've fought a TK army back in 7th edition with this same setup and really 5's to hit is just that. T2 means I can make them my personal rxb pillow.I have 40 rxb in my list and hit 80 shots as well at 5 as well with better chances of wounding and that cost me like 400 for 2 units that can out perform those skellies in shooting and CC. Tomb Kings sorely need a new book imo although I think they can manage to win a few in 8th ed simply because so far the new rules have balance the armies a bit. Bret book is showing its age as you will no longer see all knights Brets on tables anymore. It's interesting if their new book comes with simple rules like being able to strike first again on the charge with the lance formation or atleast give them an Initiative bonus. I love seeing and fighting them really.

The armies I think that will do well in this ed (compared to how they performed in 7th) are

High Elves - They take advantage of a lot of the new rules while eliminating the disadvantages of of the edition. Miscasts? Teclis. Initiative order combat? Already wins in that department and get hatred with it. Horde and supporting attacks? Spearmen. Shooting? LSG. The list goes and on not to mention how good the new lores compliment their playstyle and their magic items. Wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot of new players going HE.

Dwarves - Fast steadfast Dwarves with flaming warmachines, artillery guns and. They cut knees faster than Shadowblade... :lol:

Empire - Epitome of versatility.

Lizardmen - Slaans are scary and cause terrible damage with a lot of miscast airbags. Their warriors are excellent despite the low initiative, they have salamanders which just as nasty as Hydras and in some cases are way better. Only problem they face is Initiative tests and maybe a well bulit Dwarf or Chaos army.

Skaven - Horde rule with funky warmachines. If you haven't fought against Skaven before, you're in for a LOT of nasty surprises. Snheeakky rodents they are.

Those are the ones on that immediately come to mind when asked which armies got better in this ed. As for OnG, I've only been against one OnG player and that was ages ago. Can't say till I've seen them in action or fought against them.

_________________
8th Edition

W/D/L
86/1/5

New AB
W/D/L
32/1/0

9th Age
W/D/L

Vae Victis
Character kill count -182

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Armies
Dark Elves
Dark Eldar
Death Korps of Kreig


Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:21 am
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:02 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Antwerp
Post 
Nice list Tethlis, but I don't see how HE are better then DE.

Tethlis wrote:
1) High Elves: Terrifying offensive infantry blocks, wide array of support choices, Book of Hoeth/Teclis + easy access to additional Power Dice makes for a disgusting magic phase. ASF + ASF rerolls makes for supreme combat nastiness against anyone who has no shooting, but they are very vulnerable to template-hevy opponents or anything that can maximize Steadfast and hit back.


Our Core warriors are (considering the point cost) just as good.
Our shooting (repeater and AP) outclass there shooting.
We can get ALOT of PD as well (PoD and dagger)
We both have hatred
There heavy cavalery is probably better then ours (maybe the best in the game point per point)
We have more/better monsters.

I havn't lost against HE in a long time. 7th AND 8th


Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:08 pm
Profile
Rending Star
Rending Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:10 am
Posts: 5030
Location: Germany
Post 
HE Hvy Cav the best in the game!?

They are ok, but certainly not top tier.

Bye
Thanee


Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:07 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:02 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Antwerp
Post 
Thanee wrote:
HE Hvy Cav the best in the game!?

They are ok, but certainly not top tier.

Bye
Thanee


There are ofc much better Cav units. BUT for there points??


Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:35 pm
Profile
Rending Star
Rending Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:10 am
Posts: 5030
Location: Germany
Post 
Well, the HE aren't that cheap, either. :)

Bye
Thanee


Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:31 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:54 am
Posts: 1444
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Post 
Persuader wrote:
Our Core warriors are (considering the point cost) just as good.
Our shooting (repeater and AP) outclass there shooting.
We can get ALOT of PD as well (PoD and dagger)
We both have hatred
There heavy cavalery is probably better then ours (maybe the best in the game point per point)
We have more/better monsters.

I havn't lost against HE in a long time. 7th AND 8th


I'm not sure I would agree with the Core assessment. While I still think our Core is strong in its versatility and point effectiveness, their Core has gained a startling number of advantages compared to what they had in 8th edition.

Also yes, repeater crossbows are better than longbows, but our infantry are much more vulnerable to shooting than theirs are. Phoenix Guard and White Lions, the golden childs of 8th edition, have great survivability versus missile fire. I know this is a blasphemy *gasp* but repeater crossbows aren't THAT great. 40 crossbow shots from warriors kill 3 White Lions a turn; hardly spectacular.

This isn't meant to say that I wish we had what High Elves have; I think our ruleset is excellent in 8th, and I think we have a lot of strengths that they do not. However, they have gained some very strong advantages.

_________________
There is no escape from Chaos. It marks us all.


Image
Image


Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:07 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:02 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Antwerp
Post 
Ok they have great survivability vs ranged attacks. But thats why i'm not shooting at the White Lions. There are other, better, targets.

Phoenix guards and White Lions are idd really good.


Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:36 pm
Profile
Dark Rider
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:29 pm
Posts: 147
Post 
Well, i have been a "wharhammerer" ince 1985, and i think Dwarves have always been, by themselves or sharing the position with others, the most powerful army in all editions. Its not casual we oldtimers used to say "beardy" when someone displayed less sportmanship than a yellow ape on drugs. This is even more true in 8th edition: an alredy top tier army that gets all the benefits of the rules twists and no loss at all.

In 7th ed demons were close to dwarvs in "beardiness", but they lose something now that anyone will field big blocks of hard to rout infantry.

Other armies that are easy to use to effect are Skaven and Lizardmen.
Thy used to be top tier contenders even before, now they (especially the new uberpower Skaven) are even better (horde on everything, large numbers, new uberweapons and the hell pit abomination...).

Dark elves i'll call mid tier. They are a good overall list, with a couple aces on their sleeve (hydras, CoB, repeating crossbows) and some really big hinderances (squishy troops, squishy characters unless you load hem with saves/regen, no real war machine and, while not overpriced, high enoug cost to prevent abuse of big blocks).

Warriors of chaos are probably as competitive as dark elves, and so are the
High Elves.

Empire and O&G, while powerful in their own right, are not for beginners.
You need some experience to get the best possible benefits from heir special rules (or lessen animosity).

Beasmen are. probably, just a tad lower than O&G and Empire, but they could be equal as well, not really sure. I faced them several times but i only met two different beastmen players, and they both maxed out on minotaurs. Maybe someone could use the list to greater effect.

Vampire counts have, IMHO, been one of the weakest armies since 6th edition. I was (as were most of the others in my gaming community) astonished to read they were considered, after their 7th ed release,one of the most powerful armies (a brief period, perhaps 5 or so months in 2008)
. They are the only army you can defeat just by killing a single model. That was harsh enough when that "single model" used to have 4 wounds, now he just has 3...
In 6th it was good for boggig down the enemy, a good strategy if you are aiming for a draw or very marginal win, but in order to do that you needed necromancer lord lists, now impossible to make.

Not sure about Bretonnia, probably De-WoC level.

Wood elves, i'd say, are contenders for Empire and O&G.

Absolutely no clue about ogre kingdoms (they're generally considered average, but i never faced them myself) or the Tomb Kings (been ages since i faced them, though i remember their creepy hordes as slightly better VCs with chariots).

Are Chaos Dwarves still to be considered a WH army? Duo, they're still in the mythos, but they sound moe and more like supporting cast than protagonists.


Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:42 pm
Profile
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:10 pm
Posts: 278
Location: Near the windy city Illinois
Post 
Love this thread. I haven't got to play much in the 8th as yet. It's summer here and I have big home repair projects going on. I am actually looking forward to winter so I can get in some games. I do however keep an eye on the forums and have been upgrading three of my armies for the 8th.
Of course my Dark elf legion is growing by adding some chariots, more warriors and a few characters on foot. I finished my WoC upgrade. I am targeting O&G next. So by October I will have at least 3 armies to play suited for the 8th. I also have a Woodelf army that I don't know what to do with. It is not 8th ed. friendly but I can't wait to get my Druchii on the field.
This thread will help me when I get there so great stuff guys. Keep it comming.

_________________
No amount of planning can ever replace dumb luck.


Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:25 pm
Profile
Executioner

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:17 am
Posts: 186
Post 
Strongest oppoenst for DE, lets see :
OnG : Can be truly devastating with a skilled player, but to unreliable to be considerd with animosity etc.
Skaven : Much the same as OnG, to many things can go wrong, but if it doesent and the opposing player is highly skilled, sure.
Bretts, WE and VC has taken a beating this ed. And btw, cant beleive someone accually found VC week in 7 ed. I was facing nothing but horribly boring ghoul spamming armies in my games with no chanes of ever getting on top. Endless rasing spells on one die. Effective, but very very booring.
Dwarfes are still strong, stronger in some ways, but weeker in others. I think they are to week against magic. They usually set up consentrated and one big initiative spell ( Pit or Purple Sun ) and it can be over before it begun.
HE is about the same as DE as for changes go really. They lost abit from the stepping up rule, but they gained hatred in return. Think maby the Hydra alone might tip the scale for us.
No experience against the new bestmen, but they seem strong enough. Im guessing they still can run into the leadership problem as they did earlier.
My biggest fear would be Demons and Lizardmen. Demons because the list is still totally broken and Lizzies cuz they have gaind everything good from 8 ed. and lost nothing as I see it. My standard tactics with them was to whitle down the saurus blocks with shooting and then charge with COK/COC/Hydra to autobrake with fear. Now you have to grind down the whole cold blooded army one way or another. Annyway, thats my take on it.

_________________
Wtf, dragon`s breath is not flamable ?


Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:18 am
Profile
Dark Rider
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:29 pm
Posts: 147
Post 
jbtheslipperking wrote:
Dwarfes are still strong, stronger in some ways, but weeker in others. I think they are to week against magic. They usually set up consentrated and one big initiative spell ( Pit or Purple Sun ) and it can be over before it begun.


In my experience they can be the best army, that's if you can play, of course.
The gunpowder/crossbow gunline, anchored to the most devastating, never exploding cannons, was hard enough as it used to be. Deployed in depth, it avoids the "concentration problem" you mentioned above.
A decent player will support it with unkillable charcters that could slay all four of the chaos god together without braking a sweat, and a couple good CC units to prevent the line be broken by a determined push from a superior opponent. Meanwhile he will pop his miners fom under your feet (often contributing to a crucial fight), harass you with gyrocopters and batter you down all the way till you reach him. Once you get in CC you'll find even the most aveage of his unit is hard to beat (yes, even crossbownen!), as the buggers have high T and WS, a well as a very very decent LD. Also dwarves have very (and mean VERY) effective ways to counter magic, making the succesful casting of spells against them harder than average.
They're not unbeatable, but a dwarf opponent usually means an uphill struggle, more so than HE one, by way of exemple.


Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:02 am
Profile
Shade

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:54 am
Posts: 108
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Post 
Maldor wrote:
Daemons are now unstable, as per the BRB. The benefit they would potentially gain from steadfast (same with undead) is that their enemy does not benefit from it and will be more likely to break.


Just curious, but where does it say that Daemons now follow the Unstable rules instead of the rules for Daemonic Instability?

I didn't see it in their FAQ, which also still includes at least one reference something happening wrt Daemonic Instability tests.

Unless the rule itself was called 'Unstable' in the Daemons of Chaos book (which I don't own, so I can't be sure) then I think they would still take Daemonic Instability tests for losing combat, rather than crumbling from CR like Undead.


Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:15 pm
Profile ICQ
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Southampton, Hampshire
Post 
Going back to the original - VC at 10?
Not enough magic?
The high end vampire spells are cast on either 8's or 12's which they now add their level to. Curse of years on a 4+ (from a lord with power) can be a pretty deadly thing to face. Also, augment spells like vanhel's are easier to multi-cast now.
Also, watch out for for "horde" blocks of ghouls. 2 poisoned arracks each,potentially two extra supporting rows on top, and natural T4 will make short work of most troops.


Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:09 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 22 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software