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Cold One Chariots in 8th 
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Noble
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Has anyone used them, if so what have they done for you?

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Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:13 pm
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Noble
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I've used them as flankers, and to hunt down smaller units. Their relative resilience for their points is amazing.

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Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:51 pm
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Trainee Warrior
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Masked Jackal wrote:
I've used them as flankers, and to hunt down smaller units. Their relative resilience for their points is amazing.


Never build a list without one. No better unit to supplement one of your blocks on the charge and cheap for how much you get out of them like Jackal pointed out.

Sometimes as well I'll pop a simple Noble in one with a deathpiercer. Noble, crew, 2 cold ones attacking and impact hits.... that's alot of kills.


Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:18 am
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I take one or two instead of a second hydra. The longer, more reliable charge range is very nice and they are great for adding to combats to help out our other units. Plus, they are tough and attract artillery fire.

I haven't been brave enough to field one with a character mounted on it; I like mine cheap and expendable.

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Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:58 am
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sulla wrote:
I haven't been brave enough to field one with a character mounted on it; I like mine cheap and expendable.



Hmmm... has anyone experimented with using a BSB on a chariot in 8th? It stikes me a a nice, mobile alternative to a CoB... but have yet to try one for myself...


Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:03 am
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Rending Star
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sulla wrote:
I take one or two instead of a second hydra. The longer, more reliable charge range is very nice...


Tell me about it!

Last game I used them, both times I charged with COC I rolled 1, 2, 2 (yes, twice!). :lol:

The Hydra, OTOH, made it into combat with no problems. ;)


Ok, but usually they work well enough. :D

Bye
Thanee


Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:15 am
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Corsair
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Caemdare wrote:
using a BSB on a chariot in 8th? It stikes me a a nice, mobile alternative to a CoB... but have yet to try one for myself...
Rules:
BSB on a COC follows rules 105-106:
- BSB gets +1 armour save;
- BS shooting randomizes (1-4 to COC, 5-6 to BSB);
- templates autohit both (central hit randomised as above);
- in melee, the opponent allocates his attacks at will;
- in a challenge, the COC and the BSB participate to the challenge (cf. p.103);
- psy effects transfer like for cavalry (cf. p. 86 & 82), so the BSB is fearsome, stupid-prone and ITP;
- impact hits happen before the challenge (p.71).


Survival compared to a COB BSB.
Against BS shooting & magic MM/DD, the COC BSB seems adequately protected:
the COC is sturdy, the BSB suffers 1/3 hits at +1 save.
Still, the COB is more sturdy, with its T10 and 4+ ward save.

Against multiwound template shooting (cannons), COC and BSB are both hit and both have great chances to be killed.
A COB BSB benefits more from its T10 and 4+ward save.
Only autofailed I tests will kill the COB while leaving a good survival chance to the COC.

In melee, fear and terror bring the same protection except against fear/terror causing opponents.
The COC causes impact hits. However, any unit with 1 full rank (5 models surviving) is steadfast because the COC has no full rank (and THIS is a tremendous change since 7th edition). In following turns of melee, there is no more impact hit.
The COC BSB can challenge, while the COB BSB cannot; however, the COB can be hit only by 6 models total.
In a melee, the COC BSB is likely to die soon, while the COB BSB is likely to die late.
Again, the COB is superior.


Overall, the survivability of the COB seems largely greater than the survivability of the COC.


Cost and side benefits.
Comparing the pts cost, the COB BSB costs 225 pts. It can be further improved by banner and Gifts.
The COC BSB costs 205 pts (assuming full armour and nothing else). It can be further improved by banner and magic objects.
Neither COC nor COB can march. The COC is slightly faster, although it can (rarely) be stupid.
The COB grants its blessing to a unit within 24", and is innocuous otherwise.
The COC can charge and kill a light unit within charge distance (expect 16").


Conclusion.
COB BSB overwhelming superior to COC BSB.
Unless you're playing themed army.
Or unless you add survivability to the BSB with magic objects.

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Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:18 am
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Cold One Knight
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Caemdare wrote:
Hmmm... has anyone experimented with using a BSB on a chariot in 8th? It stikes me a a nice, mobile alternative to a CoB... but have yet to try one for myself...


i have, used it quite a few times, the stupidity was not an issue, and was mobile enough to keep BSB'ing where i needed him to, and not too fast so he could not accidently outrun the infantry.

in combat, he was very durable,(went 8 rounds with a chaos lord of killy doom) but could not generate enough killing power, and failed to do much because of this.

other problems were, he could not be steadfast, so any combat he lost, (due to SCR mostly, or stronger people simply aiming for his chariot, instead of him) while being re-rollable, were not always good odds, and with BSB's auto-destroyed if they flee from combat, this was not a great thing.

it would not be so much an issue if he jumped into combats where my blocks were involed, but my opponents quickly targeted him with cavalry, causing him to lose combat, before the infantry could join in.

he would have been more useful in the flanks to combat this (more room to move) but that would have defeated the point of the BSB part (
my high elf and chaos opponents tried the same, and had similar problems with mounted BSBs intending on combat)

after 6 games or so, i dropped the master BSB off the chariot, and got a CoB bsb, and kept the chariot for flanking/supporting, and has worked wonders.

the chariot itself has tipped many a combat in my favour, and has stood in as an effective road block for a turn (more with support) to save my level 4 several times from incoming infantry (S3). last game, it broke a Pheonix guard block (also containing his BSB) when it slammed into the flanks, (supporting the BG and crossbowmen block) netting me the game.

*edit* ninja'd by Calisson's better formatted and written post, though a CoC BSB can be very much more durable than Calisson's post suggests (to attacks, not to break tests) while the CoB rarely sees combat, and only then mostly small light units are involved, which it vapourises, when the CoC BSB is in combat with anything else, it loses to SCR vs weaker, more numerous foes, or loses by ACR when stronger foes target the chariot instead of the character (other characters, knights, chosen, GW armed troops, so on)


Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:19 am
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I really need to pick up at least one COC, I'm not going to field a second hydra at this point as the one seems to be sufficient. Cheap and hard hitting is something I could really use.

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Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:26 pm
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I bring word from the front. I have played a few games with my proxy chariots, and well DAMN they are tough. These bad boys can really rock and roll. I charged 2 into a engine and managed to kill the priest and a crewman turn I charged, then held for about 4 rounds of combat. I will admit soulblight did go off and help out, but even then the chariots just rocked and rolled. They do need a generals LD near by, but more so a BSB ability to reroll.

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Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:42 am
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I think that a thump rule is:

If you include a Cauldron: Use Cold one Knights
If you dont: Use Chariots

Chariots are simply better than knights for the point cost, but the synergy between CoKs and the cauldron is gamewinning.

On 2000p I either bring 2x6 COKS (mus) or 3 chariots depending on cauldron or not.


Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:30 am
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I heard someone post once that characters in chariots take the toughness of the chariot. I checked the rules and they're sort of a mess but a quick once-over seems to make our characters T5 which is darn good protection. If I'm wrong (or right!), please let me know!


Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:01 am
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You are, chariots function as monster mounts now. +1 to armor save, but that's it.

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Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:20 am
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I've been very pleased with how chariots perform in 8th edition. The ability to either support a regiment, or to run after smaller units, is very valuable. The flexibility of them is what I like most in 8th edition; since we're using fewer units that we tended to in 7th edition, and since fleeing or partially destroyed units don't grant victory points, a chariot can be perfect for running down a fleeing enemy while you reform with your combat block to face a new threat. Similarly, chariots are great for going after skirmishers, shooting regiments, warmachines and weapon teams that really don't grant enough victory points to justify sending your 400-point elite infantry unit after, but you still need to kill or chase off anyway.

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Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:53 pm
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The 3 major uses of the COC is :
1. Support for your inf block ( 30-40 spears) to add punch
2. Hunting down fleeing units or smaller units that tries to esc.
3. Tieing up a block for a few turns ( bsb must be wi 12" range )
And now with the autodestroy beeing gone its alot safer to field.
The thing i like best is the clipping together with a block. Only need to have a free corner of a model to hit to get into combat.

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Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:29 am
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From my experience the chariot has improved in 3 areas with 8th:
- no autokill anymore (S7)
- reroll stupidy test with BSB close by
- on average a longer charge range (~7+9= 16)
- relativ soft damage when going into woods
- no overrun because of hatred

I like them now especially for the thread they are for the packs of 2 MB lined up ...


Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:11 am
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kain, yes, i agree,

the chariot also has lost thou, the massive damage on a first turn charge is useless against steadfast units.

where you could reliable rout a unit with a 2 chariot charge in 7th edition, or with a combine chariot DR unit, that option is gone.

also, with the almost dissapearance of support units, the chariot has a lot less solo charge options.

chariots are still nice, but now solely support units where they could double up nicely as main assasult units before (2 of them at least).

not that i mind, but is not all an improvement :)


Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:49 pm
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Masked Jackal wrote:
You are, chariots function as monster mounts now. +1 to armor save, but that's it.


Wait so if you put PoK on and a good save on a chariot rider then he will become pretty much unkillable because he and the chariot both now have t5 and cannot be targeted separately so both benefit from PoK?

EDIT-oops I misread your post and now realise that this is not the case

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Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:55 pm
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