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our mounts in the 8th edition 
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Dark Rider

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:29 pm
Posts: 134
well, I believe our mounts have gotten quite some different roles in this edition, so lets analyze them one for one and try not to keep their drawbacks out of the 7th edition in mind, since lots of those aint valid anymore.

Dark steed: this used to be a nice mount for a master on a mission, 18" charge range was very nice to have and to add him in the (then taken in multitudes) Dark riders was a nice option.

Not anymore i think, not only does the dark steed mounted master lose on charge range (or at least on dependable charge range) also the aforementioned DR support has been less and less fielded and he can hardly get a lookout sir roll anymore.

only (consistent) use i see for these now, are in a bigger unit of shielded DR, sure, there are moments you could use a lone master, but i hardly see a consistent use for them.

Cold one: the cold one lost some appeal for me, this due to the hard cap on armour saves and well, fear lost a lot of appeal as well, no more, take a fear test or fail to charge. Immune to psychology is a boon and a blessing, not being able to flee at will is something I dont like to much, but being able to ignore spreading panic is nice. stupidity is almost a non issue now thou, if yer BSB is close enough for a reroll, so that is a pre again.

I think these lost usefullness on mixing mounted chars in infantry units, but as part of a cold one knight regiment, these still are a solid choice for a mount.
One last caveat, cold ones can make a decent mount now for spellcasters, their main drawback (stupidity) is almost a non issue, but the improved stats for characteric test taking are very nice for an otherwise weak sorc.

Dark pegasus:
The clear winner in this edition, they got a tremendous boost by being untargetable (for cheap combat resolution) confer an added wound to hero lvl chars, gained a stomp attack and confer a +1 AS to the rider as well.

with decent St and To, it helps the rider to pass those nasty characteristic tests as well, not bad at all, but mainly for hero lvl chars.being able to place them in infantry units makes them nice for a sorc with dagger and they give also 4 more models worth in the unit (easy to expand a mediocre block to a horde that way, gaining a lot of attacks instead of losing them.

The manticore:
The second winner if you ask me,
the old 7th edition assumption they are vulnerable to shooting is not true at all, some infantry can give them a hard cover bonus, +1 to hit larget targets is gone and missile units cannot just shoot with all models on them anymore as well (moot for normal missile units, but does count for horde missile blocks like goblins etc.

they also gained thunderstomp, and confer a +1 AS to the rider. Of all our monters they are the most resistant to characteristic tests (5's all around) and while they could be killed still, they dont confer any VP's till the rider is gone as well.

Being a large target mount is only a blessing since a general or BSB expands their influence this way. Just dont charge soemthing frontal and expect the manticore to survive, but that was true in 7th edition as well.
not counting hero slots is a moot point since their point cost is like a (fully equipped) hero and takes on the 25% anyway. personally, I think the manticore has gained as much as a pegasus, only the advantages are less clearly seen.

the dragon:
the dragon has gained the same as the manticore, but that has a lot less effect in total since the main advantages for the manticore negated its weakness (massed BS shooting) where the BD was allways resistant to that.
the dragon also lost out on its breathweapon, being only 1 use a battle now, and the Ld effect being (partially) negated by BSB rerolls. Still, being able to inflict another 2d6 St 4 hits in a combat can help, but only if you allready negated steadfast (otherwise its just wasted overkill).

Taking a dragon in general also disallows for a second lord choice due to points limit, while a manticore at least allows for a second DL on foot/ cheap mount.

well, all our mounts lost their hatred ability, so i did not mention it everywhere, thou off course, the more attacks a model has, the more this hurts, but bothe the manticore and the dragon in general hit on a 3, so maybye the pegasus is the most hurt by this.

all flying mounts gained by the ability that forest are NOT impossible terrain for them anymore, sure, yu take a difficult terrain test, but that is only 1 wound on a 1, not a risk i am not willing to take if that is a nice position to be in.


Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:41 pm
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Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
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Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Posts: 9675
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
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Quote:
Dark steed: this used to be a nice mount for a master on a mission, 18" charge range was very nice to have and to add him in the (then taken in multitudes) Dark riders was a nice option.

Not anymore i think, not only does the dark steed mounted master lose on charge range (or at least on dependable charge range) also the aforementioned DR support has been less and less fielded and he can hardly get a lookout sir roll anymore.


Master on a Dark Steed can have a surprise attack role. Put him in a unit of large-ish Dark Riders (with shields since they lose fast cavalry rule when joined by a character anyway) of about 14-19.

With Swift Reform and Master's Ld9 they should be able to set themselves for a flank charge no later than turn 2 to charge on turn 3. Dark Riders are seen as squishy, but when 15 of them hit your flank with 9 S4 attacks, 3 S6 attacks and 10 S3 attacks (Standard of Slaughter for +d3 CR is very nice if you make the master BSB) they stand a good chance at breaking medium sized infantry units, and will definitely break their ranks if not stalwart.

Quote:
Cold one: the cold one lost some appeal for me, this due to the hard cap on armour saves and well, fear lost a lot of appeal as well, no more, take a fear test or fail to charge. Immune to psychology is a boon and a blessing, not being able to flee at will is something I dont like to much, but being able to ignore spreading panic is nice. stupidity is almost a non issue now thou, if yer BSB is close enough for a reroll, so that is a pre again.

I think these lost usefullness on mixing mounted chars in infantry units, but as part of a cold one knight regiment, these still are a solid choice for a mount.
One last caveat, cold ones can make a decent mount now for spellcasters, their main drawback (stupidity) is almost a non issue, but the improved stats for characteric test taking are very nice for an otherwise weak sorc.


Actually, I would say they gained as mounts for characters inside infantry units. Sure, fear lost the ability to stop a charge with a single failed Ld test, but it gained something much more substantial. WS reduction for an entire enemy unit if they fail Ld test... even if there's just one cold one, the entire enemy unit is affected. And they have to test every round rather than just on the charge turn. This can swing the combat very decisively.
And reroll for Stupidity tests due to BSB has made Sorceresses mounted on them somewhat useful.

I agree with the other mounts ;)

_________________
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:00 pm
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Dark Rider

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:29 pm
Posts: 134
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Dalamr, like i said, the only consistent use i see for a Dark steed master is in a bigger unit of shielded DR indeed, yes, they can do there indeed.

the fear causing effect for a infantry unit can work, however, with the bigger units we see nowadays anyway, i assume they pass that first test with a BSB reroll (a lot easier to have them in range of all your units) and i also assume my opponent to commit either enough attacks to kill chars turn 1 of combat (so a second turn fear test is moot) or have enough ranks to break my steadfast unit there. Assumptions off course :)


Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:12 pm
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Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
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Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Posts: 9675
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
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With the increased usefulness of BSB, you should also increase the importance of sniping characters before they get to combat.

Master on a Cold One is a tough nut to crack, easily getting 1+ armor save... not so easy to kill.

_________________
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:14 pm
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