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A Caster AND the Ring of Hotek 
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Trainee Warrior
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I was considering using a level 2 (or level 4) caster AND the "Bearer on the Wing" in the same list. Has anyone else considered this and would it be a feasible tactic?

The idea would be for the Bearer to fly in behind the enemy line and negate some casting with the 12 inch bubble while my caster(s) stays outside the 12 inch radius casting death or shadow spells. (probably with a unit of RXBs as escort)

As we are allowed to measure any time we want now in the 8th ed, I figure it should be fairly easy to put the mobile Bearer close enough behind the enemy casters while ensuring that the 12 inch bubble would still be far enough away from my caster(s).

Thoughts?


Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:33 pm
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Generalissimo
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Sounds eminently viable, just pay attention to what you're doing each turn and make sure that the flying ring bearer is always 12" away from your caster. As long as you do that, it should work fine.

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Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:44 pm
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Beastmaster

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From my experience its almost essential to have at least one caster (for the the +bonus and why waste those 2d6 power dice?) and that using a "bearer on the wing" can still very useful. Unlike in 7th you can more easily shut down your opponent's magic magic phase without influencing your own. It's easy to manoeuvre around with 20" movement but measuring subtly is important if you want the element of surprise. An important thing about the build is flexibility, if you can pop a mage then he becomes an excellent small unit hunter (2+ save 3 wounds and lethal with a scouge)


Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:49 pm
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Trainee Warrior
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That's what I'm thinking.

I'm playing a game against Skaven this week and I was thinking about testing out this combo.

I was actually considering to use a level 2 AND a level 4 in the list. However, keeping my 2 casters out of the bubble while keeping my opponent's in could prove a tad more difficult than if I had just one caster.

I wonder how long the Bearer will last as I hear the skaven are pretty good at shooting? Hopefully, his 3 wounds will keep him alive for long enough.


Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:56 pm
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Beastmaster

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I've never used the bearer against skaven. For some reason I either kill the grey seer on turn one with death magic and go on to lose the game or win.

There is a potential for it to go wrong as a lot of the skaven army ignores armour saves, but you should be fine in the magic phase


Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:08 pm
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Highborn
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While this is a valid and feasible tactic I would personally just opt to kill the Grey Seer straight up. With true LOS you can shoot the Seer on the bell( if he is on it and most likely he will be) or kill him with magic (Death in particular) or suicide run that with a Pegasus Master or even Feedback scroll him. Sure there is a chance that he will miscast but there is also a chance for him to still get IF with the 13th spell or whatever.

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:09 am
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Trainee Warrior
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I played my game last night against the Skaven and, well, I didn't get to try out the combo at all.

The Skaven player got the first turn. Before I had a chance to do anything, he moved his Greyseer (sitting on the bell) up and cast the 13th spell with a power scroll. He turned my unit of 10 RBX and my level 2 caster into rats but then rolled a 4 and a 1 for the miscast and got sucked into the warp. He took 17 rats pushing the bell with him as well because of the large template blast effect for the miscast.

The grayseer was his only caster so I could not use the Bearer for my intended purposes. On my turn, I flew him to the back of the rat line hoping to start taking out some rat mortar teams (he had 5 of them). However, on the Skaven player's second turn, he fragged my Bearer with 6 of those Jezzail snippers with their St 6 shooting. :( .

I still won the game but it was a tight one and I didn't really get to try out the combo so for me the game was a little disspointing.

Oh, and the Abomination (or "A-Bomb" as he kept referring to it) is B-R-U-T-A-L! It took out a hydra, a unit of 15 WE and a CoC. Ouch!!!


Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:44 pm
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Dragon Lord
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Give your "ring bearer" a Cloak of Hag Graef and he'll laugh at those Jezzails.

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Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:50 pm
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Rending Star
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CappenVerra wrote:
The Skaven player got the first turn. Before I had a chance to do anything, he moved his Greyseer (sitting on the bell) up and cast the 13th spell with a power scroll. He turned my unit of 10 RBX and my level 2 caster into rats but then rolled a 4 and a 1 for the miscast and got sucked into the warp. He took 17 rats pushing the bell with him as well because of the large template blast effect for the miscast.


LOL! Nice start. :lol:

Quote:
The grayseer was his only caster so I could not use the Bearer for my intended purposes.


Those damn sneaky rats, always finding a way to ruin such well-prepared plans!

Bye
Thanee


Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:08 pm
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Beastmaster

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CappenVerra wrote:
He turned my unit of 10 RBX and my level 2 caster into rats but then rolled a 4 and a 1 for the miscast and got sucked into the warp. He took 17 rats pushing the bell with him as well because of the large template blast effect for the miscast.

Your mage shouldn't have died, 13th spell is distributed like shooting so unless there are under 5 r&f models in the unit no characters can die. This means no rats too!

CappenVerra wrote:
Oh, and the Abomination (or "A-Bomb" as he kept referring to it) is B-R-U-T-A-L! It took out a hydra, a unit of 15 WE and a CoC. Ouch!!!

They are pretty tough, but unpredictable. Flaming attacks help, witch elves are usually effective, and lore of shadow can turn it into fluffy bunny.


Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:06 am
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Trainee Warrior
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To Burizan:

Really? He rolled something like 20 models to be changed into rats as a result of the 13th spell. I thought that if the total model changed exceeded the number of models in the unit, then the ENTIRE unit becomes rats.

As I only had 10 rxbs as an excort, I thought my mage would not get a "look out sir" or any other kind of saves or result avoidance.

To all:

I've modified my army list since my battle with the skaven. I've posted it here http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=66864.

Please feel free to critique. I'm going to play against the Empire or Lizzies later this week and I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks


Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:30 pm
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Beastmaster

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Yeah, I queried it here to check. Skaven players do *not* like it but their insane spell doesn't munch characters.

It's always a good idea to keep things cheap against skaven, they have an annoying ability to kill absolutely anything if they roll well enough and it helps to put more bodies on the field


Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:53 pm
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Executioner
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Just tried this the other day. Worked great but it can really depend on deployment, if their mages are all tucked in the middle of the entire force wherever that ring is that unit is not gonna get any action or your mages won't. I like it though, so long as you're not rocking dawn battle or something.

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Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:28 am
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Yeah the 13th spell doesn't kill characters, as far as I can tell from the FAQ though they still get a unit of clanrats if they wipe out everyone else.

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Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:42 pm
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Slave on the Altar

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No, the rats don't come, because there is still something left in the unit.


Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:59 pm
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Trainee Warrior
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As promissed a few posts ago, I thought I would fill you all in on how my list worked out on the 2nd try.

I faced the High Elves in a 2500 pt game. It was a total slaughter by turn 4 with the HE capitulating having only a level 2 caster left alive.

I should note that his list was really bad. He went all magic with 4 casters on the table. (One level 4, one level 3, two level 2s and the book of H.) I consider this a classic 8th ed mistake - spending too many points on magic and not being able to use it due to the winds of magic.

Anyway, I digress. The tatic of the Bearer and a level 4 caster worker out really well. As in the general tactic discussed earlier, I flew the Bearer behind the HE line and caused 3 miscasts in 4 magic phases. I had also modified the Bearer build to include the Cloack of HG so he survived lots of shooting. The bearer also had an added psychological bonus of making his general (level 4 caster) run around trying to stay out of the bubble, making him play more reactively, and, by turn 3, positioning himself so that I could kill him with a charge & challenge. (Dance, High Elves. Dance! :twisted: )

My level 4 caster used Shadow magic to effectively boost my CoK (with ASF banner) and WEs by casting Orkams. The Hex spells also worked great at reducing the effectivness of his shooty Lothern SG. Shadow magic has decent range so I think it works well with the Bearer. The caster does not need to be up close and personal to your opponent`s main line and can stay away from the "Bearer bubble".

In all, a very successfull 2nd attempt. Enough so that I will try it a 3rd time. :)


Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:24 pm
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Corsair

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I play hotek + lvl 4 in my COK-bus list 2.5k that got these chars:
dreadlord cold one
master bsb on cold one with hydra banner
hag COB
lvl4 sorc shadow

COK-bus / shooting / hydra 1-2

Works great for me. Sometimes you can just place your COK-champion with hotek out of reach to the units you want to cast spells at. So far the ring hasn't been "in the way" from my magic at all.


Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:48 pm
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Cold One Knight

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a.wagg wrote:
No, the rats don't come, because there is still something left in the unit.


According to the new FAQ, the unit is consider destroyed when all R&F are removed, so the spell is now better...


Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:26 pm
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Trainee Warrior
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Ok. I now have a third battle (and win :) ) under my belt with this combo. I can confirm that, from my experience at least, this is a viable combination.

In fact I'm suprised to find that (contrary to my initial thoughts) the Bearer and a lvl 4 caster actually create a funky kind of synergy. :shock:

The bearer maximizes the use of the RoH by getting the 12 inch bubble at the right place quickly. The enemy caster is then forced with a tough choice. If he uses the minimum amount of dice to cast a spell and therefore minimize the chance of having doubles (and a miscast), this INCREASES my odds to dispell with my level 4. If he puts more dice on the casting, he increases his chances of a miscast.

This synergy existed before the 8th ed. However, the new deadlier miscast table and the random casting dice pool (Winds of Magic) have made this an even more effective combo.

In the 7th Edition, I never woud have even considered taking the Ring and a caster in the same army. In the 8th, I'm starting to think that this is, in fact, not only viable, but also HIGHLY effective.

Well, well, well. I learn something new every day... 8)


Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:45 am
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