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Meteor wrote:I really really really really like those spearmen modifications! The rear design is superb. I like the hair coming down from underneath their helms, it's something I had wanted to do but wasn't sure, now I have no doubts! I also really like the extended poles for their spears. It looks so much better for the fact that they fight in multiple ranks. The larger blades are great too, I hate the puny ones the CoKs use. Keep at it!
Thank you. This conversion is one i've wanted to do since the plastic corsairs first came out. Due to the imminent release of the new dark eldar, the current range of plastic warriros has experienced a price crash. Perfect opportunity to grab up a whole bunch of kits (got 60 dark eldar warriors on sprue, for £15!) and start converting. The only things i'm shy of are brass tubing, and spear heads which I am currently raiding the trading forums for.
Savonarola wrote:The warriors are truly perfect. Good luck in converting and painting 40 of them. I seriously do not understand why some Picasso paintings are so pricey. Our minis should be that expensive, considering the amount of work! We have to wait until we will have died, probably.
edit: apparently you have cut your finger when dealing with one of the spearmen, considering the red traces. Kudos!
Thank you for the compliments. I really hope I don't have to die before I get another commission though.
I have cut my fingers plenty of times during conversion work. However, thats not my blood, it's children's clay. I wanted to make a test model, and made a quick mould for the head ornament. When I peeled the casting out, it left a faint after-colouring. Hope it doesn't affect the painting.
Lord_Azoth wrote:Man..I´m in love with your warriors....
Thanks man!
I've been experimenting with paint scheme's and hit on a formula that i'm fairly happy for my elf skin. I have also worked up a loose palette for the army;
Black armour, NMM, (I'm still quite inexperienced with this technique. Like sculpting 40+ chain mail warriors, this army with give me the chance to improve my technique) NO pure black surfaces (i'll explain this when I write up a tutorial)
Black clothing, highlighted with bleached bone - no pure white. (By highlighting the cloth with bleached bone, I hope that it will highlight the difference between the black armour and black cloth). NO pure black surfaces.
Pale skin, shadowed with blue/grey, and purple lips (No warm human skin pigment washes - I want my eleves to look inhuman).
TMM weapons.
Purple and gold Spot colours (If I decide to introduce any colour at all).
And, most unusually of all, carmine (a deep wine red) eyes. I knew from the very outset that my dark elves would have blue tinted skin and carmine eyes. I wanted my elves to look otherworldly, daemonic, and unlike any other dark elf army out there.
I can already anticipate that by mixing TMM and NMM on the same model may lead to a very confusing overall appearance. And, I don't think that everyone will dig my black armour and black cloth approach. I'm not entirely convinced it will work either, thus the test model below. I want to complete a few metal test models below I ruin my converted warriors proper.
Early W.I.P shot, but the skin is fairly complete. I hope that the carmine eye is visible. You can also see what i'm trying to do with the black armour and the black bloth.
Any suggestions, or comments would be great. I'd love to get a few more opinions on what I have talked about before I proceed.
im really REALLY looking forward to see those models painted. very cool. the eye is looking awesome, though i doubt you will notice it on the real minis if you dont know its there. dont stop!
The warriors are awesome! A whole block of those will be very impressive indeed. I am actually not a fan of the chainmail skirts at all but with yours in an open, dynamic pose like that they look amazing.
I don't know too much about sculpting, what is that brown stuff you are using?
I think the giant spearheads (more like halberds) are just fine for a fantasy game. The more exotic and less realistic looking the weapons and armour the better.
Lord Tsunami wrote:im really REALLY looking forward to see those models painted. very cool. the eye is looking awesome, though i doubt you will notice it on the real minis if you dont know its there. dont stop!
Thank you. I agree with you about the eye. It's a nice little extra, that, if noticed, adds extra character to the model.
brachenshire wrote:DUDE your spearmen conversion is SUPERB..
Ever thought using the 5 conversions you got and then casting/molding them to quickly replicate large amount of them?
IF YOU DO THAT I am sure TONS of us would buy your converted spearmen...they are sooooo much better that the GW ones...I would buy about 50 of them...
I am ignorant to the process of casting/molding models but it is a thought...
PS....5 models and also you just need to sculpt a command group as well.
regardless..GREAT JOB
Haha, that's an excellent way of getting in trouble. Since I use GW parts for the spearmen, I couldn't cast them and sell them commercially. I can however build them for you if you commission me to do so.
Thank you for the compliments.
masamune wrote:The warriors are awesome! A whole block of those will be very impressive indeed. I am actually not a fan of the chainmail skirts at all but with yours in an open, dynamic pose like that they look amazing.
I don't know too much about sculpting, what is that brown stuff you are using?
I think the giant spearheads (more like halberds) are just fine for a fantasy game. The more exotic and less realistic looking the weapons and armour the better.
Thank you. I'm interested as to why you don't like the chain-mail skirts? Is it that you are just not a fan of chain-mail skirts in general, or that I haven't quite done it right. I'd like to hear any critique or thoughts on the matter so I can make sure the rest of the batch are of a better quality.
The brown stuff is called...brown stuff. It's the same expoy putty as green stuff, but has slightly different properties. Georc uses it quite a bit, and the brown stuff allows for a slightly sharper edge and is perfect for armour and the such. Farodin asked how I did my bases, so i've written up a tutorial. I hope you find it useful;
First off, get yourself some fast drying pollyfilla:
This stuff is normally used to patch up cracks in walls, but is perfect for a flexible and low cost basing material.
1)Spread your pollyfilla on a flat, non-stick surface. Spread and thin or as thick as you like. I normally try to spread it and thinly as I can and build up several layers on a base. 2) Once dry, crack the pollyfilla. 3) Glue to a base 4) Because of the properties of the dried pollyfilla, it can be cut, filed, broken and will leave some very sharp rocky edges. It is also perfect to drill into and pin models onto the base. 5) And voila. A finished base ready to be painted.
The bases are great for display pieces, but any jutting rocks (like Cynath's base) will be quite fragile and will break with regular aggressive play. A thin layer of superglue should help this, but treat these bases with care.
My main concerns are with the skin colour and how the black armour and black cloth will work together.
I used VMC Black Grey and White to build up the armour highlights, and Black grey with bleached bone for the cloth area.
Looking at the photo and reflecting on the outcome, I'm a little disappointed with the outcome. The entire model, although technically good, looks a little washed out, and the flayed skin does not offer enough relief. I used the same grey to paint the armour when shading the flayed skin, thinking that i'd tie the entire model together. Alas, it did not work. I'm happy with the skin tone and I am convinced the techniques I used on the armour and cloth will work. I think the introduction of a third colour to satisfy the eye will do the trick.
I have a Black Guard all primed and ready so I can concentrate on improving the black. Painting a black guard will also give me the opportunity to see how to paint the shaft on my spearmen. Haven chosen to paint the model's primarily black, the eye will be naturally drawn to any other colour on the model, and I don't want the shaft to become a focal point. I'll have to figure out a way to blend the shaft's colour with the rest of the spearman/black guard.
Any suggestions, critique's, or comments would be great at this stage before I put paint to the spearmen. It's a lot easier stripping metal than plastic!
LilLoser.
P.S Can anyone point me in the direction of any images of text concerning Priests of Vaul, or the renegade preist of vaul (Hotek?) that made Malekith's armour. I'm really hoping that members of this forum with such a comprehensive knowledge can help me out as I can only find a few sentences.
Please feel free to post up any images of text that you find, plus any links to hte subject.
Last edited by Cynath ch'ill on Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
blackbone wrote:Fantastic sculpting on the cloak. Any pointers you can give us on how you do that would be appreciated.
- Blackbone
Thank you. This cloak was quite a complex sculpt. If you reffer to earlier photo's of Cynath you can see that it has an unfinished, scrappy look to it. Create a scaffold from greenstuff, then sculpt a finished version over the top. I also found a neat trick for using fimo putty as a scaffold, then taking it away once the greenstuff has dried. It's quite hard to explain without photo's.
Malekith85 wrote:Nice conversion. What kind of small creatures you used?
I'm not sure. I've had these models hanging around my bitz box for years. The plastic creatures are converted wood elf sprites.
Lord_Azoth wrote:Cant wait to see more!! the base looks nice...
Thank you man. May take a while until it is completed.
In the meantime i've been experimenting with colour scheme's. The Black Guard is still W.I.P save for the armour and black cloth. I'd really appreciate any feedback, suggestions or criticisms you can give me on these as they will comprise the main elements of the dark elf colour scheme.
I'm still not convinced i'm hitting the right notes, but I think that this is an improvement from my last tester. I concentrated on highlighting more of the armour, and shading it with a stronger shade of black ink. I think that I'll add more blue to the initial mix for my next experiment.
I'm fairly happy with the cloth and the metallics, but i'm still searching for a hilt scheme that does not take focus away from the model.
Really nice painting, but for my taste the colour schema is a bit dull, so dark..I´d add some other colour..maybe some red..something that brings out a bit
Malekith85 wrote:Nice conversion. What kind of small creatures you used?
I can't be certain but I think those are warmaster harpies or furies or something of that ilk.
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Lord_Azoth wrote:Really nice painting, but for my taste the colour schema is a bit dull, so dark..I´d add some other colour..maybe some red..something that brings out a bit
That's my concern as well. I agree that the model does indeed look dull, but i'm convinced the all black colour scheme can work. I'm drawing inspiration from these two sources:
Malus' armour is rich and alive, but it very noticeably black.
Blue acts as the spot colour here, and I may need to introduce something similar to contrast with the black. I also like how the black armour has been painted on the paladins.
I'm just waiting until my skills catch up with my vision.
First off, thanks for the tutorial:D, it was really nice.. I guess I should get myself a bunch of that stuff. I really want to use it on some my characters/command models.
Second, those warrior conversions are truly amazing mate! Really, really nice, and respect that you can bring up the patience to sculpt that many chainmail skirts. Can't wait to see the block of 40.
The blackguard is also very impressive, although I agree with Lord Azoth on that the model could use a bit more colour. Maybe the bit of cloth could be painted in a colour?
-Farodin
We are Druchii, the cold-hearted blades of destiny.
We shall cut through the world and bring forth Khaine's Kingdom...
...and all shall know their masters
When I say 40 warriors, I mean crossbow elves as well. I'm planning on building a unit of 20 - 30 spear elves and 16 - 20 RXb's. That should give me a strong spine to the army. I'm building two a day now (will sculpt later) and i've bolstered the unit up to 15. I'm getting faster at their construction, so another 15 shouldn't be too far off.
I agree that the model does look a little dull but i'm convinced that the scheme can work. The problem is me! I haven't quite mastered how the two black surfaces are going to interact in a pleasing way. I have another black guard to paint as a test. Hopefully I'll get a eureka moment.
As an aside, I'm so excited about the new Dark Eldar range. I'm sure i'm not the only one here planning on building an army of them to correlate with their fantasy stuff.
One purchase I cannot wait to get my mits on are the new Incubi. I have such plans for Cynath's personal retinue.
Well you don't need to use only black and grey pigments to get black looking armour. Add some highlights with a yellow, glowing from the gold maybe, or a cold blue also works. Give either the impression that some of his stuff has a magical glow or you could even go for a minor "chrome" type effect and reflect the ground and sky softly to add a bit of colour and contrast to the model. It's the contrast I think is really lacking
Notice in both of your source images there is a warm/cool contrast of colours going on where in yours it's 80% neutral and then 10% warm 10% cool.
Masked Jackal wrote:A suggestion, instead of pure black, you could do black with a trim.
That's quite a neat idea. I'll have to give it a try.
masamune wrote: you don't need to use only black and grey pigments to get black looking armour. Add some highlights with a yellow, glowing from the gold maybe, or a cold blue also works. Give either the impression that some of his stuff has a magical glow or you could even go for a minor "chrome" type effect and reflect the ground and sky softly to add a bit of colour and contrast to the model. It's the contrast I think is really lacking
Notice in both of your source images there is a warm/cool contrast of colours going on where in yours it's 80% neutral and then 10% warm 10% cool.
Contrast! That's what i've been searching for! Thank you Masamune. I've started on my third test model and i've made the armour's midtone noticeably azure. Here is a quick W.I.P
I think this may be the one i've been looking for. Now I know that my painting needs more contrast, I can start blocking in cool and warm colours in my mind. It's quite an interesting thought process to go through, and I hope it will yield more satisfying results.
Hmm the skintone on that Blackguard hasn't convinced me.
More a sickly skintone I'd associate with the Dark Eldar.
Same with the white hair, not suiting it that well.
The execution though is as usual marvellous so far.
So the blackguard is seasick? Not digging the green skin.
In my opinion the low saturated palette is lacking that 'pop' you like to see from a mini. I think if you are going to go with those type of colours you need to play it off of a more vibrant colour which could be from the basework, or an army colour on small details, cloth, etc. As it stands I think everything is just getting washed out.
Darthvegeta800 wrote:Hmm the skintone on that Blackguard hasn't convinced me. More a sickly skintone I'd associate with the Dark Eldar. Same with the white hair, not suiting it that well.
The execution though is as usual marvellous so far.
I think that my choice of skin tone will not sync with others view of what a dark dark elf should look like. I wanted to put a little distance between the fair skinned High Elves and do something different. I think that I did use a touch too much green in my base, but I quite like how the flesh is turning out at the moment.
Thank you for the comment. I understand this pallette won't be to everyone's taste.
masamune wrote:So the blackguard is seasick? Not digging the green skin.
In my opinion the low saturated palette is lacking that 'pop' you like to see from a mini. I think if you are going to go with those type of colours you need to play it off of a more vibrant colour which could be from the basework, or an army colour on small details, cloth, etc. As it stands I think everything is just getting washed out.
Ha, maybe, but the skin tone stays. I wanted to do something different with this army instead of following the normal GW colour scheme's. I hope I don't seem unappreciative or dismissive of other's input, but I'm settled with the skin tone.
I'm quite happy with the model so far. I'll wait to see it complete before I decide whether or not it has 'pop'. The contrast between the armour and black cloth has, in my opinion, certainly improved. I've painted the leather portions of the miniature a bunrt brown, but I think that I should have done it in a dark olive colour to work with the Black Guard's skin tone. The side dagger I intend to paint purple.
I know that purple isn't a very fashionable colour for dark elves right now, players opting for blues and reds instead. It will be interesting to get some feedback on what people think of the final miniature when I post up photo's.
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