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Magic Heavy/optimized magic phases. 
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:18 pm
Posts: 240
Location: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
Hi guys, i've decided to post my first tactica for Magic heavy list. I've come with this idea and want to share with others.

I beg your pardon fr my poor english :P


#1 Correct Lore

First of all, we need to use the correct Lore. Many combo are used in many tournement/forum discussion, i've comed with those:

Dark and shadow
Shadow and Metal
Shadow and Death

Shadow and death combine great. Shadow is more a buff/hex lore than can be usefull with dmg dealer spells from death. Metal is a lore that can help an army with low Str value. My list use 10 cold one and 28 exectuionner. So I stay away from metal. And a 40 warriors strong unit. That last unit want a mindrazor casted on them each turn, my strategy is to get this "vital spell" out each phase. After all, we don't have access to Teclis so we must use our brain!! Not a no-brainer caster!

The base of my magic heavy list is on Dark magic. It's my favorite lore since the beginning of our new book, and find a perfect way to play it.

Conclusion: DARK and SHADOW


#2 Level of magic

I think that it's not a matter of number of level total, but you need the best level for each lore.

The BRB's lore normally need high level caster. It's obvious when you see 15+/18+ or even 25+.

But what many are forgetting, it's the raw power of a Lvl 4 casting spells at 11+ or lower. She can use 1-2 dices with accuracy and power. What we need to be carefull on, is the probability of lossing concentration. Dagger, 2 dices spells are perfects ways to be protected.

The BRB's lore provide some good spells, but DARK magic is more "all comer" than shadow. I think that 1 to 3 spells per lore are strong for each army. The other part of the 8 lores of magics are somewhat too situationnal.

Having 2 lvl 4 is probably the best combo you can get, but is a little overpower to my taste. I like a Lvl 4 and a lvl 2. Bring some backup on opponent turn if the lvl 4 happened to miss a dispel attempt. Cost approximatly 500 pts for both.

Conclusion: Lvl 4 dark magic and Lvl 2 shadow magic


#3 Power dice and magic items

The third part of a magic heavy list is to bring the more power dices possible. We want many dices but we want to use them correctly.

The lvl 4 in the dark magic, combined with a dagge ONLY for protection against lost of concentration is the best DISPEL dice manage we can get. We want to be able to cast the best spell in the lore of shadow for each situation:
- A boosted basic spells is very good to nerf a heavy hitter unit, and allow a big unit of warriors to kill so many of them
- pit of shades, pendulum are good against low init army, and both can kill many guys
- Mind razor is probably the spell you want each games.
- Droppin Toughness and Strengh can stop many strategy.

The purpose is to choose ONE spell. Only one you want to cast. If you happen to be able to cast more than 1, happy for you. But the strategy is not in a utopic world, only one spell can turn the battle for you. Behing able to get the spells you want is vital, so you want to lvl 2 to get 3 spells to choose from, the book is mandatory for her. I'll cal this the "vital spell".

The level 4 will be there only to force the opponent in using dispel dice. That way, the lvl 2 will be able to cast and the spell will goes off. Casting 10+ with a lvl 2 need 3 dices, and so on, so keep an eye on this when managing power dices.

The lvl 4 will cast with ONLY ONE DICE any spell with a casting value of 4 to 8. She can use the dagger only if the spell will be a miss. So any spell with casting value of 4 to 7 will be successfull on a roll of 3+. Start with the basic spell only of you got less than 7 dices. Or if your opponent got more dices than you (rolling 1-6 on wind of magic is not good against high elf/O&G/dwarf that can all steal you some dices). The reason for that? She want to burn ALL the dispel dices of you opponent before attempting the "vital spell". If your spell is so vital that your opponent is keeping dispel dices, you're just making dmg everywhere with no cost at all!!
The lvl 4 can cast

- Power of darkness: keep it for back up. If your opponent got too much dispel dice, you'll need this one to get some more for the lvl 4. That way she will be able to burn more dices. Or, if your opponent is a "power dices fearer", he will dispel this one at all cost, acheiveing what you want to do!

- Chillwind: many player won't let it go, big unit of shooter/flamers don't like that spell.

- Doombolt is not the best spell out there, keep it for lone character/monster than are important for your opponent. You want him/her to dispel it, so choose the correct target.

- Word of Pain: Your vital spell is an hex? Combine with this spell, and your opponent will have to make some choices, let go Word of Pain or the other one...

- Bladewind: THE warmachines killer. Making close combat attacks is the best spell of all to destroy a warmachines right away. Combine with Word of Pain or a hex from shadow lore can make this spells one of the strogner you can do. Maybe sometime that spell can be your "vital spell".

- Soul stealer: Keep it for later, or against big armor unit. It's not the spell you really want to cast. In near all my game, i'm changing it for chillwind.

- Black Horror: maybe the more psychologic spell. If your opponents are like mine, they will at all cost dispel this one. Cast it on 2 dices, with dagger if necesseray.

If you do all right, you'll cast 3-4 spells using 4-5 dices and burned 5-6. With an average roll of 7, you'vre burned every dispel dices your opponent have. And you're now free to cast you "vital spell". But why not casting a little power of darkness with 2 dices just before!! Maybe you'll be able to cast the second spell from lore of shadow you so wanted to !!

The more spells you throw, the more dispel dices you burn. It's not a matter of Power dices you use, but a matter of number of spells. Casting 5-6 spells each turns with an average roll on the wind of magic is too strong for many army to handle.

Conclusion:
lvl 4, dark magic, dagger
lvl 2, shadow magic, tome of furion

With an average roll of 7 on the wind of magic, You'll use 1 to 5 dices with the lvl 4, and 2-3 with the lvl 2. But effectivly cast the spell you want, and maybe some others in the way to go. With proper dagger manegement, you will not kill to many warriors in the run (remember, 7pts each time... potentially 210pts in a 6 turns games...).


#4 Protection

We want to best protection for our sorceress. The protection available depend on others characters in your army. If you are like me, a BSB CoB is all you need with both sorceress to kill any army out there.

The best protection against miscast is the pendant. Any miscast are Str6 or Str 10 wounds. With 35pts it can fit just well with the lvl 2. Letting the 4+ ward for the lvl 4 (common item). Havgin cheap and cost effective characters is what I want to acheive.

Conclusion

Lvl 4, Dark magic, dagger, 4+ ward for 330 pts
Lvl 2, Shadow, Tome of furion, Pendant for 185
BSB, COB for 200 pts, total of 385 pts for hero


All this can fit just well in 1600pts games or more.

The final words: you want the lvl 4 to burn dices, and you don't want her to kill to much warrior. Cast chillwind/bladewind/power of darkness on 1 dices, with the dagger only if you roll 1 or 2. With 3 dices, you'll burn 5-6. near all your opponent dispel dices!

After that: It's show time!!


Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:36 pm
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Corsair
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Good article, a18no, welcome among D.R.A.I.C.H. writers.
Here => D.R.A.I.C.H. Pick up the spell you want.is an analysis about probability to get "the" killer spell you need.
Also, I recall the probs to get IF.



I'm sure that there are some more to say about building a list around magic:

I could suggest the following discussions, with you and other D.netters:

Lvl4+Lvl2, or Lvl3+Lvl3?

A lvl2 + ToF has 72,2% chances to get "the" killing spell.
What if she does not? Does it ruin your strategy?


Yesterday's FAQ confirmed that a Lvl 0 cannot cast any spell.
How does it influence your choice of dice casting?

Discussions about the lack of merits of Fire?
Does Lore of Fire have a use?

Who needs to select her spells first?

Is there no other way than using the dagger?

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Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:46 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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If your Lv 4 is using the Dagger in a big block of spears. I'd consider giving her the Ironcurse Icon. Although I can't remember is it a talisman? maybe you can't.
Personally I'd give the Lv 4 the Pendant as well. Being more expensive she needs the better protection.
A level 2 doesn't need any protection IMO.

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Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:30 am
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You also need a method to sort out enemy magic defense. Be it an assassin to take out a +6 to dispel wizard, a method to remove DD generating characters and banners etc. Otherwise you may struggle against your opponent if your magic is significantly hampered.

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Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

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Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

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Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:54 am
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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Nice write up. Personally, I like the following set-up:

Level 4, Dagger, 4+ Ward, Lore of Shadow
Level 2, Tome of Furion, Pendant, Dark Pegasus, Lore of Death

Level 2 is on a Dark Pegasus for several reasons -- increases her wound value to 3 from 2, gives her mobility to cast close-range character assassination spells or get her in a good spot for Purple Sun if she gets it, and gets her away from my other units in the event of a miscast. Pendant of Khaeleth is since I funnel a lot of dice through her and I need a good ward against strength 10 hits (and against missile fire).

Level 4 has Shadow since I think it has some real game-changing spells. Miasma gives movement control as well as setting up Purple Sun or Pit of Shades, and the buffs and hexes can tip important combats in favor even if you don't have elite troops.

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Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:22 am
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Wouldn't a Lv2 struggle with Death magic when the nuking spells are so short ranged and fairly PD demanding for a lv2? Range I guess isn't an issue when you're fluttering around on a DP, but PD demand?

I suppose I'm in the same boat too when I use Shadow lore for my Lv2 haha. But I'd like to hear how you find yours.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:02 am
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Rending Star
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a18no wrote:
And a 40 warriors strong unit. That last unit want a mindrazor casted on them each turn, my strategy is to get this "vital spell" out each phase.


If you consider Mindrazor so vital, how does this mesh with leaving the Lore of Shadow to the Level 2 (with a good chance of not even being able to choose the spell at all)?

Quote:
After all, we don't have access to Teclis so we must use our brain!! Not a no-brainer caster!


Hmm... I think Teclis has a brain, too. I will send Shadowblade to investigate.

Quote:
Conclusion: DARK and SHADOW


This is not really a conclusion, it's a personal choice of yours.

It is a good choice for the way you build up your magic phase (i.e. cast as many spells as possible, which requires low casting values for the Level 4).

Quote:
The BRB's lore provide some good spells, but DARK magic is more "all comer" than shadow.


I would disagree here. Lore of Shadow is, IMHO, the most "all comer" lore out there.

Dark Magic is great, too, but is much more situational than Lore of Shadow.
Apart from Word of Pain, all Dark Magic spells do damage.

Quote:
We want to be able to cast the best spell in the lore of shadow for each situation:
- A boosted basic spells is very good to nerf a heavy hitter unit, and allow a big unit of warriors to kill so many of them
- pit of shades, pendulum are good against low init army, and both can kill many guys


Not only good against low initiative; they work just fine against any unit suffering from the signature spell (-d3 Ini).

Quote:
- Mind razor is probably the spell you want each games.


I think in all my games I have cast it once so far. :lol:

It also goes against your general strategy, I think, because it has a rather high casting value. You need 5-6 dice to cast it reliably with a L2 caster.

What do you do, when you only gain 5-6 dice at all from Winds of Magic?

Quote:
- Droppin Toughness and Strengh can stop many strategy.


Those two are the big guns in the Lore of Shadow to me.

Quote:
The purpose is to choose ONE spell. Only one you want to cast. If you happen to be able to cast more than 1, happy for you. But the strategy is not in a utopic world, only one spell can turn the battle for you. Behing able to get the spells you want is vital, so you want to lvl 2 to get 3 spells to choose from, the book is mandatory for her. I'll cal this the "vital spell".


I never play like this. I always choose my spells for the magic phase in order to have multiple threats, not to force a single spell through (a smart opponent will easily realize this and hold the dispel dice back; and just suffer the little damage the other spells can cause; unless they are really threatening as well, why dispel them?).

Quote:
The level 4 will be there only to force the opponent in using dispel dice. That way, the lvl 2 will be able to cast and the spell will goes off.


You seriously play a L4 caster only to drain dispel dice? ;)

Quote:
- Soul stealer: Keep it for later, or against big armor unit. It's not the spell you really want to cast. In near all my game, i'm changing it for chillwind.


With all the hordes out there, this spell really, really gained. If you manage to combine it with the -d3 T spell from Lore of Shadow, it is really impressive.

Quote:
- Black Horror: maybe the more psychologic spell. If your opponents are like mine, they will at all cost dispel this one. Cast it on 2 dices, with dagger if necesseray.


Not just psychological... this spell can put out some serious damage. As with Soul Stealer, it gets better, if you manage to cast -d3 S from Lore of Shadow.

Quote:
The more spells you throw, the more dispel dices you burn. It's not a matter of Power dices you use, but a matter of number of spells. Casting 5-6 spells each turns with an average roll on the wind of magic is too strong for many army to handle.


This is definitely right. Many spells cast from a L4 caster means a lot of +4 to the total casting values you put out.

Bye
Thanee


Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:01 am
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:18 pm
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Location: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
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Thanee wrote:
a18no wrote:
And a 40 warriors strong unit. That last unit want a mindrazor casted on them each turn, my strategy is to get this "vital spell" out each phase.


If you consider Mindrazor so vital, how does this mesh with leaving the Lore of Shadow to the Level 2 (with a good chance of not even being able to choose the spell at all)?

Mindrazor is probably the best spell for my list, but i've win against an High elf list with the basic spell too.
The "vital spell" is not the same for each game. Even not the same spell each TURN. It's why you need 3 spells on your, let say, "vital caster".

Thanee wrote:
Quote:
After all, we don't have access to Teclis so we must use our brain!! Not a no-brainer caster!


Hmm... I think Teclis has a brain, too. I will send Shadowblade to investigate.

You're not the first to say that, but I really think that shdaowblade is the worst trick we have to kill Teclis.

The best way is, and will always be, Hydra or double Hydra.

- Teclis is near always in a unit of Phoenix guard, more often with the banner os sorecery. So no fear of Flaming attack. And, if you're not charging in the first turn, you know exactly where the banner of sorcery is. After all, your opponent must show you where are magics items they use!!

- Phoenix guard with Str 4, are the worst unit High have to face Hydra. Even Harpies could kill him fast.


Thanee wrote:
Quote:
Conclusion: DARK and SHADOW


This is not really a conclusion, it's a personal choice of yours.

It is a good choice for the way you build up your magic phase (i.e. cast as many spells as possible, which requires low casting values for the Level 4).


Happy to see that you understood me!!

Many says before you that the lvl 4 would have benn better in the shadow lore. I think it's not the places she deserve. Casting with the lvl 2 in the dark lore won't give you the power you need to burn all the dispel dice your opponent get.


Thanee wrote:
Quote:
The BRB's lore provide some good spells, but DARK magic is more "all comer" than shadow.

I would disagree here. Lore of Shadow is, IMHO, the most "all comer" lore out there.
Dark Magic is great, too, but is much more situational than Lore of Shadow.
Apart from Word of Pain, all Dark Magic spells do damage.


Exactly why they pair so well.

Dark and Death is overpowered. You need some buff spell. On some turn, the vital spell is a hex, on some it is a buff (mindrazor), and on some turn it's a damage dealer. You need all of them.

Hex: Dark magic got one, shadow got 3
Buff: Only 1 from shadow (I don't use fly often, not being able to fly from combat, or fly in a unit is a big drawback to me), but their's not a lot of buff spells we can use. The lore of fire could be nice, but lack so hex to my taste.
Damage: Shadow got 2, dark got 4. They have good range (from 18" to 24"), and are usefull for warmachine (dark), big unit (pit and black horror), lone monster (doombolt, pendulum), Low strengh (horror combine with hex from shadow could kill many guys out there), low Toughness (soustealer and hex from shadow).

You can combine so many spells in both lore. No other lore can be usefull with dark magic as much as shadow can. And since my strategy is based around dark magic, shadow is they way to go.

Thanee wrote:

Quote:
- Mind razor is probably the spell you want each games.


I think in all my games I have cast it once so far. :lol:

It also goes against your general strategy, I think, because it has a rather high casting value. You need 5-6 dice to cast it reliably with a L2 caster.

What do you do, when you only gain 5-6 dice at all from Winds of Magic?


Like I said before, the "vital spell" is not always mindrazor. If it is, I cast it first with max dice with the lvl 2. Someone suggested before you to put the pendant on the lvl 4. I don't and it's why: casting with a lot of dices to get mindrazor, will cause a miscast. I want the level 2 to be alive.

Like you, I've never cast mindrazor since this strateggy was made. Mindrazor was my exemple. But the strategy can be use with any spell you want to cast. In my last game, it's was the boosted wignature spells that cause one hydra, to kill 1 mage, 1 BSB and a 30 strong unit of phoenix guard. It took 3 turns to do so, but at the end, my hydra has only lost 2 wounds.


Thanee wrote:
Quote:
- Droppin Toughness and Strengh can stop many strategy.


Those two are the big guns in the Lore of Shadow to me.


I've won with the drop strengh more than with mindrazor too. The signature spell is good too.


Thanee wrote:
Quote:
The purpose is to choose ONE spell. Only one you want to cast. If you happen to be able to cast more than 1, happy for you. But the strategy is not in a utopic world, only one spell can turn the battle for you. Behing able to get the spells you want is vital, so you want to lvl 2 to get 3 spells to choose from, the book is mandatory for her. I'll cal this the "vital spell".


I never play like this. I always choose my spells for the magic phase in order to have multiple threats, not to force a single spell through (a smart opponent will easily realize this and hold the dispel dice back; and just suffer the little damage the other spells can cause; unless they are really threatening as well, why dispel them?).


If the spells you cast with the level cause so little damage that it is mandatory for your opponent to let them go, just to dispel the big spells, it's because you haven't played my strategy well.

- A dwarf grudge thrower, with Str5 multirunes won't let a razorblade go through
- Low strenght and/or low LD army will never let pass a correctly played black horror

The goal is to choose low casting value spell that WILL cause big damage. Maybe your oppoentn don'T want to be WS1 and BS1, maybe he want to protect a lone character or a warmachine. Dark magic got many trick with low casting value that wil almost always make your opponent want to dispel them. If not: cast your "vital spell" with the level using max dices, it's why she use the pendant!


Thanee wrote:
Quote:
The level 4 will be there only to force the opponent in using dispel dice. That way, the lvl 2 will be able to cast and the spell will goes off.


You seriously play a L4 caster only to drain dispel dice? ;)


Yes man, and she is WAY to powerfull. And when yoru hydra have killed the biggest mages on your opponent army, she start to become a destroyer! Just be PATIENT. 2-3 turns of dispel dice burning, and when your opponent loose his +5 dispelling capacity, she is the master of black art!


Thanee wrote:
Quote:
The more spells you throw, the more dispel dices you burn. It's not a matter of Power dices you use, but a matter of number of spells. Casting 5-6 spells each turns with an average roll on the wind of magic is too strong for many army to handle.


This is definitely right. Many spells cast from a L4 caster means a lot of +4 to the total casting values you put out.


The strategy I've explain make the life of your opponent a real puzzle.


Thanee wrote:
Bye
Thanee


Bye and thank you!

Dyvim Tvar wrote:
Nice write up. Personally, I like the following set-up:

Level 4, Dagger, 4+ Ward, Lore of Shadow
Level 2, Tome of Furion, Pendant, Dark Pegasus, Lore of Death

Level 2 is on a Dark Pegasus for several reasons -- increases her wound value to 3 from 2, gives her mobility to cast close-range character assassination spells or get her in a good spot for Purple Sun if she gets it, and gets her away from my other units in the event of a miscast. Pendant of Khaeleth is since I funnel a lot of dice through her and I need a good ward against strength 10 hits (and against missile fire).

Level 4 has Shadow since I think it has some real game-changing spells. Miasma gives movement control as well as setting up Purple Sun or Pit of Shades, and the buffs and hexes can tip important combats in favor even if you don't have elite troops.


One big flaw in this: You choose lots of high costing spells. 3 possibility
- You'll cast only 2 or 3 each turn, with probability that 1 or 2 won't go off. If that happened, your opponent will have full dispel dice to dispel 1 or 2 spell
- You'll be in big trouble when the winds of magics will be against you.
- You will suffer many miscast. Casting 3-4 spells each turn with 4-5 dices (with power of darkness and dagger, it's common), will give you many miscast. I've tried that combo, and I found that the death lore lack some versatility.


Last edited by A18no on Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:21 pm
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:18 pm
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Location: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
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Sorry for the double post, to much information for one post!

Calisson wrote:
Good article, a18no, welcome among D.R.A.I.C.H. writers.


Thanks Calisson!

Calisson wrote:
Here => D.R.A.I.C.H. Pick up the spell you want.is an analysis about probability to get "the" killer spell you need.
Also, I recall the probs to get IF.


Like I said before, the killer or the "vital spell" is not "mindrazor". It depend on the opponent and on each turn. Playing with Shadow give you 3-4 spells that could change a game: signature, -d3S, -d3T, mindrazor, pendulum, pit of shades. Actually, only one spell can't be the vital spell!

Calisson wrote:
I'm sure that there are some more to say about building a list around magic:

I could suggest the following discussions, with you and other D.netters:

Lvl4+Lvl2, or Lvl3+Lvl3?


This strategy (and it's not the only possible) need a lvl 4 in the dark lore. Cause you want 4 spells AND +4 to cast. the strategy could be even more powerfull with Morathi. Now she can join a unit, but will suffer from lost of Look out sir.

Playing with 2 lvl 4 was part of my strategy, Problem is:
Lvl 4, dark, dagger, 4+ ward: 330 pts
Lvl 4, shadow, tome, pendant: 310 pts

They can be played at 2550 pts or more, not that common

But that can be played in 2500 pts games:
Lvl 4, dark, dagger, 4+ ward: 330 pts
Lvl 3, shadow, tome, pendant: 275 pts

But cost you 100pts more than the lvl 2, bring +1 to cast and 1 spell. The lvl 2 is more optimize I think.

Calisson wrote:
A lvl2 + ToF has 72,2% chances to get "the" killing spell.
What if she does not? Does it ruin your strategy?


You don't need mindrazor. It's the beauty of the lore of shadow. With any 3 spells EXCEPT for flying, you can play almost against any opponent. Since I want the lvl 2 to cast 1 spell each turn, I don't want to pay 100pts to get 1 more choice, and +1 to cast.

Calisson wrote:
Yesterday's FAQ confirmed that a Lvl 0 cannot cast any spell.
How does it influence your choice of dice casting?


Having to deal with miscast is the life of any player now! The lvl 4 will almost never fear miscast: she cast on 1 dices almost all the time. With a 6 rolled, she don't use the dagger (the spells is a success except for black horror).

It's another reason I play like that. The general of my army is the level 4, I don't want her to die on a casting. Play the strategy like that, and you inforce your lvl 2 with the power of the level 4, without risking her life!


Calisson wrote:
Discussions about the lack of merits of Fire?
Does Lore of Fire have a use?


I'll check more. But since the lore of shadow got 6 spells (include the signature) that could be the "vital spell", I don't think that fire can play the trick. And I don't think that fire could replace dark too. The hex from shadow is dispelled? Use the hex from Dark!


Calisson wrote:
Who needs to select her spells first?


Good call. I haven't though about that before.... But I think that it doesn't matter.
Almost all the dark spell are based upon the army you face. But maybe that you want to choose your dark magic first. That way, you'll choose more or less hex from shadow based on the fact you get, or not, word of pain.


Calisson wrote:
Is there no other way than using the dagger?


In my strategy, the way to play the dagger was only to give security to the level 4, and not risking her life as the general. and I really think that the dagger is not well used other than that. The point cost of warriors can seem low, but on the long run, killing 12 (2 per phase) costed you 84pts, and maybe the life of all the unit. After all, 40 warriors are there to protect my sorceress, not only to give PD.

If I want to play more agressivly, I always take 30 warriors, no shield, musician. They cost 185, can absorb some dmg, will provid cheap PD (6pts), and will stay far from fighting. But it's not the case of a 40 strong unit.


Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:40 pm
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Rending Star
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a18no wrote:
the "vital spell" is not the same for each game. Even not the same spell each TURN. It's why you need 3 spells on your, let say, "vital caster".


Yep.

I was just wondering, why you focused on Mindrazor so much. I do understand, that it was just meant as an example.

Quote:
Quote:
Hmm... I think Teclis has a brain, too. I will send Shadowblade to investigate.


You're not the first to say that, but I really think that shdaowblade is the worst trick we have to kill Teclis.


I don't think you understood me well there... it was just meant as a jest! :lol:

I do not really have to worry about Teclis myself, since we almost always play without special characters around here (incl. pretty much all tournaments).

Quote:
Exactly why they pair so well.


Yes, Shadow + Dark is a great combination for sure (though I prefer the L4 Shadow + L2 ToF Dark variant myself).

Quote:
Like I said before, the "vital spell" is not always mindrazor. If it is, I cast it first with max dice with the lvl 2. Someone suggested before you to put the pendant on the lvl 4. I don't and it's why: casting with a lot of dices to get mindrazor, will cause a miscast. I want the level 2 to be alive.

Like you, I've never cast mindrazor since this strateggy was made.

Mindrazor was my exemple. But the strategy can be use with any spell you want to cast. In my last game, it's was the boosted wignature spells that cause one hydra, to kill 1 mage, 1 BSB and a 30 strong unit of phoenix guard. It took 3 turns to do so, but at the end, my hydra has only lost 2 wounds.

I've won with the drop strengh more than with mindrazor too. The signature spell is good too.


I see. I think you might have focused a bit too much on Mindrazor up there. It seems to be a vital part of the strategy, where it really is not. :)

Quote:
If the spells you cast with the level cause so little damage that it is mandatory for your opponent to let them go, just to dispel the big spells, it's because you haven't played my strategy well.

- A dwarf grudge thrower, with Str5 multirunes won't let a razorblade go through
- Low strenght and/or low LD army will never let pass a correctly played black horror

...


Ok, I think we actually meant the same thing here (mostly, anyways)! :D

Bye
Thanee

P.S.

Quote:
Sorry for the double post, to much information for one post!


That's absolutely fine! :)


Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:47 pm
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Executioner
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a18no wrote:
Calisson wrote:
I'm sure that there are some more to say about building a list around magic:

I could suggest the following discussions, with you and other D.netters:

Lvl4+Lvl2, or Lvl3+Lvl3?


This strategy (and it's not the only possible) need a lvl 4 in the dark lore. Cause you want 4 spells AND +4 to cast. the strategy could be even more powerfull with Morathi. Now she can join a unit, but will suffer from lost of Look out sir.

Playing with 2 lvl 4 was part of my strategy, Problem is:
Lvl 4, dark, dagger, 4+ ward: 330 pts
Lvl 4, shadow, tome, pendant: 310 pts

They can be played at 2550 pts or more, not that common

But that can be played in 2500 pts games:
Lvl 4, dark, dagger, 4+ ward: 330 pts
Lvl 3, shadow, tome, pendant: 275 pts

But cost you 100pts more than the lvl 2, bring +1 to cast and 1 spell. The lvl 2 is more optimize I think.


Double Lv4 is a bit of an overkill I believe. Reason being you're rarely going to have enough PD to cast 6 of 8 spells. Getting to cast 5 spells (excl PoD) is already generous. So you're wasting their potential and with too much cost for no additional gain if you get what I'm trying to say.

The way I see it is there should always only be one major caster and one or two supporting ones. Much like how you normally will only have one Dreadlord and the rest are Masters. Rarely and rather impractical do you see two Dreadlords in a 2500pt - 3000pt game.

A lv2 is definitely an optimised supporting mage, especially with the 'Scholar' setup. From 3000pts onwards I usually run a Lv4 main caster and a Lv3 supporting one. Why a Lv3 over a Lv2 scholar? For the 100pt magic item slot and ability to pick an arcane item whilst maintaining 3spell selection (for the purposes of increasing chances of getting a double or at least a spell I want/need in a given lore.). The Lv3 is a nice backup dispelling mage too for when our Lv4 fluffs it. The set-back is certainly less than jumping from +4 to +2 to dispel.

I usually take Dark Lv4 and Shadow Lv2/3. Which makes me take a Powerscroll when I take a Lv3 with Shadow. For a time where I need Mindrazor or a nice big version of Pit to go off to obliterate something nasty. If she blows up and dies then...meh, I've still got my main caster with me.

And taking a Lv4 with Dark Magic allows you to cast at least 3 spells (excluding PoD) quite easily on an average roll for winds of magic. Thereby draining more DD, and allowing you to cast shadow spells unhindered.

Though you got to keep in mind they may reserve DD for your later important spells they know you'll be wanting to cast (or you're in big trouble). So either throw a big batch of dice at it and hope he rolls his big(ger) batch poorly, before rolling small number of PD for your lesser spells afterwards. Or prepare to do without it ;)

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:40 pm
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:18 pm
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Meteor wrote:
Double Lv4 is a bit of an overkill I believe. Reason being you're rarely going to have enough PD to cast 6 of 8 spells. Getting to cast 5 spells (excl PoD) is already generous. So you're wasting their potential and with too much cost for no additional gain if you get what I'm trying to say.


The second lvl 4 is usefull for casting at +4, not bad when you want a big spell off. And with the level 4, you can take something else than the tome of furion.

Meteor wrote:
The way I see it is there should always only be one major caster and one or two supporting ones. Much like how you normally will only have one Dreadlord and the rest are Masters. Rarely and rather impractical do you see two Dreadlords in a 2500pt - 3000pt game.

A lv2 is definitely an optimised supporting mage, especially with the 'Scholar' setup. From 3000pts onwards I usually run a Lv4 main caster and a Lv3 supporting one. Why a Lv3 over a Lv2 scholar? For the 100pt magic item slot and ability to pick an arcane item whilst maintaining 3spell selection (for the purposes of increasing chances of getting a double or at least a spell I want/need in a given lore.). The Lv3 is a nice backup dispelling mage too for when our Lv4 fluffs it. The set-back is certainly less than jumping from +4 to +2 to dispel.



I approve, 2 lvl 4 are only for 3000pts or more. But I prefer the level 4 than the level 3. 35pts for +1 dispel is the cost of the arcane item! And you get free spell and free casting bonus. Too much to let it go. If you have enough room for the point cost, never play the level 3


Meteor wrote:
I usually take Dark Lv4 and Shadow Lv2/3. Which makes me take a Powerscroll when I take a Lv3 with Shadow. For a time where I need Mindrazor or a nice big version of Pit to go off to obliterate something nasty. If she blows up and dies then...meh, I've still got my main caster with me.


I never play in this mind set. Since 100pts is enough for a victory, let say you play at the same level as your opponents, you are both very strong general and bring strong lists. You will loose with that strategy. Many people are playing the powerscroll, I find it useless.

Are you 100% sure, that with the powerscroll, you're gonna make more than 200pts with one casting?? Will you take the risk? I won't!

Meteor wrote:
And taking a Lv4 with Dark Magic allows you to cast at least 3 spells (excluding PoD) quite easily on an average roll for winds of magic. Thereby draining more DD, and allowing you to cast shadow spells unhindered.


That's the goal of the strategy, you got it right.
Meteor wrote:
Though you got to keep in mind they may reserve DD for your later important spells they know you'll be wanting to cast (or you're in big trouble). So either throw a big batch of dice at it and hope he rolls his big(ger) batch poorly, before rolling small number of PD for your lesser spells afterwards. Or prepare to do without it ;)


Like I said previously, if you are in this situation, it's because your level 4 is not casting the correct spell. And it's why the more I play, the less I like mindrazor. 18+ is too high and too situationnal to base my strategy around it.

An exemple, the best spells between any hex/buff spells against High elf is probably the boosted signature spell from the lore of shadow.

-D3 WS, -D3 BS, -D3, Initiative, -D3 mvt

The worst situation is -1 to all. Lets take Spears against Spear, we strike on 3+ with re-roll all the time (they are at WS3), they strike at 4+ no re-roll (Ini 4)... We cost 7pts, they cost 9pts, they just strike before us. What can we ask more?? For a 10+ spells.... a steal!


Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:49 pm
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Executioner
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Well you obviously wouldn't blow a power scroll on a penumbral pendulum. Hence why I said for when you really need or want a spell to go off. It's usually used in conjunction with Pit or Mindrazor. Definitely for Mindrazor since as you said, 18+ to cast is a hefty demand. So if I've got 12 frenzied witches in combat with an Ogre Tyrant and his mob of bad boys, or a doombull with his mob of 9 Mini's then even if my Lv4 blows up and claims half her unit as a result, at least I effectively wiped out that massive threat with a mere 120pts that just threw 24 S8 attacks at you.

And that's a practical thing to pull off too. Obviously it's a bit cheap because you're casting a game breaking spell on IF, I too would be very frustrated if I'm on the receiving end of such a tactic, so I do refrain from doing it, only in the most dire situations ;)

Choosing between a Lv3 and a Lv4 is dependent on your 25% lord allowance. Though for my personal taste I prefer keeping her cheaper and stick to Lv3 just so there's a distinction between who's the real badass full fledged mage compared to the mediocre one. The only reason the scholar build is switched to a Lv3 is just for that extra 100pt slot for an arcane item whilst maintaining 3 spells, like a hex scroll or a feedback scroll.

But of course on the whole I agree with what you've written :)

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:35 pm
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Noble
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Not to spoil all the good vibrations, But I really dont find multible sorceresses to be worth the extra points. Adding an extra sorceress doesnt bring more powerdice to the table and doesnt increase the chance of dispelling. Getting another chance at PoD is nice, but all the level 2's spells will be cast with only a +2 bonus and is therefore easier to dispel for the enemy.

I find myself mostly using a single level 4 with the pendant, darkstar cloak/power scroll and black dragon egg on dark pegasus. Even with +1PD from the cloak I seem NEVER to have enough PD just the cast the spells I want with my supreme sorceress, so why on earth would I need another sorceress?

In addition, Lore of Death is simply insanely powerful. Every spell except the fear/terror spell are really "must-dispells" for the enemy - or he will risk loosing an important character, get his generals (and all units within 12') leadership down by three or risk loosing a whole army to the purple sun!!!

In addition, my supreme sorceress usually kills more with her black dragon egg than the combined shooting of the rest of my army over a whole game! My favorite move is to cast soulblight on the enemy before I flame them with the egg. Usually my opponents will let that spell through in fear of the other character snipers.


Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:16 pm
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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Responding to a couple posts about the magic set-up I prefer:

a18no wrote:
Dyvim Tvar wrote:
Personally, I like the following set-up:

Level 4, Dagger, 4+ Ward, Lore of Shadow
Level 2, Tome of Furion, Pendant, Dark Pegasus, Lore of Death


One big flaw in this: You choose lots of high costing spells. 3 possibility
- You'll cast only 2 or 3 each turn, with probability that 1 or 2 won't go off. If that happened, your opponent will have full dispel dice to dispel 1 or 2 spell
- You'll be in big trouble when the winds of magics will be against you.
- You will suffer many miscast. Casting 3-4 spells each turn with 4-5 dices (with power of darkness and dagger, it's common), will give you many miscast. I've tried that combo, and I found that the death lore lack some versatility.


Actually, these problems don't really arise. First, even on a mediocre roll of 7 for winds of magic, I can often cast 4 or more spells. Sacrificial Dagger helps a LOT in this regard, and so does Power of Darkness.

Also, I am NOT rolling 4-5 dice per spell. In fact, with the Level 4, unless I am casting Mindrazor or Pit of Shades, I never roll more than 3 dice (and often just 1 or 2) before I have to make a decision on whether to use the Sacrificial Dagger, and I generally will not use the Dagger if I already have a 6 out there. The Level 2 often generates miscasts if trying for Purple Sun, but she's on her own and well protected from miscasts.

Meteor wrote:
Wouldn't a Lv2 struggle with Death magic when the nuking spells are so short ranged and fairly PD demanding for a lv2? Range I guess isn't an issue when you're fluttering around on a DP, but PD demand?


Spirit Leech, Caress, and Soulblight all have casting values of 9 or less, and so can be reliably cast on 2 dice even by a level 2 (although I will throw 3 dice for Soulblight if I can).

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Truly These are the End Times ...


Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:44 pm
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Rending Star
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Auere wrote:
...so why on earth would I need another sorceress?


Several reasons...

1) You have more spells to choose from to better optimize your magic phase each turn.
2) You can take a somewhat situational Lore (like Metal) for the 2nd caster.
3) You still have one caster, if the other blows up or gets killed.
4) You still have a bonus to dispel, if you botch one dispel roll.
5) You can take 2 arcane items.

I'm sure there is more.

Playing only a single Level 4 has its merits, too, but a Level 2 in addition also does.

Bye
Thanee


Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:14 pm
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:18 pm
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Location: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
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Dyvim Tvar wrote:
Actually, these problems don't really arise. First, even on a mediocre roll of 7 for winds of magic, I can often cast 4 or more spells. Sacrificial Dagger helps a LOT in this regard, and so does Power of Darkness.


7 is not a mediocre, but an average roll
Dyvim Tvar wrote:
Also, I am NOT rolling 4-5 dice per spell. In fact, with the Level 4, unless I am casting Mindrazor or Pit of Shades, I never roll more than 3 dice (and often just 1 or 2) before I have to make a decision on whether to use the Sacrificial Dagger, and I generally will not use the Dagger if I already have a 6 out there. The Level 2 often generates miscasts if trying for Purple Sun, but she's on her own and well protected from miscasts.


You're playing the dagger in the same way I've explain it (mainly for dark magic though)

Casting any spell with a lvl 10+ or less can be done with 1 dice on a lvl4/dagger. When you get a 6 on the roll, the spell goes on and you don't use the dagger.

That way, you put pressure on your opponent. The level 4 can cast 3-4 spells each turn only with that strategy. They will all be sucessfull, and will need 2 dice to be dispelled. If your opponents want to dispel many spells, they will have to use less dices, uping the probability of a miss-dispel, and that way their lvl 4 is no longer there for dispel attempt. Giving free shot for the lvl 2 to cast spells!

@Auere

Death lore is a good lore, but a little overused to my taste. Spells that kill characters are good, but remember one things: half unit give 0VP. So buffing/hexing units on the table to give you the edge in the close combat phase could bring you way more victory point than killing a 150pts hero. If you break the unit the hero's in, with a correctly played Signature spells from shadow lore, you've acheive the same goal as the death lore BUT with a full unit of victory point.

I've find that sniping spells are good only for characters that don't go in close combat. Wizard, BSB are good target. But all the sniping spells from the lore of death are short range. So you need a sorceress on pegasus to be really usefull. It's a good strategy, but not an optimize magic phase. I need a way to play my magic that could be usefull in an all-comer list. Death caster on pegasus with powerscroll is a strategy that will not be usefull for all opponent (against other elf, it's not that good). And many comp system are banning that powerscroll. I've come with a basic strategy to use at his best our magic phase!! Often, fast, powerfull and safe!


Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:49 pm
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Dyvim Tvar wrote:
Spirit Leech, Caress, and Soulblight all have casting values of 9 or less, and so can be reliably cast on 2 dice even by a level 2 (although I will throw 3 dice for Soulblight if I can).


I personally wouldn't call a requirement of 7 on two dice to be reliable, because that's dead on 50%, where you pretty much ride with luck :/

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:39 pm
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Rending Star
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It's actually more like 58.33%, but that's just details. ;)

If I actually need a 7 to roll, I would only do this with just 2 dice, if I had the Sacrificial Dagger, or there are no more spells to be cast from this Wizard, or I'm being desperate. :D

Bye
Thanee


Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:01 pm
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Noble
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Quote:
Death lore is a good lore, but a little overused to my taste. Spells that kill characters are good, but remember one things: half unit give 0VP. So buffing/hexing units on the table to give you the edge in the close combat phase could bring you way more victory point than killing a 150pts hero. If you break the unit the hero's in, with a correctly played Signature spells from shadow lore, you've acheive the same goal as the death lore BUT with a full unit of victory point.

I've find that sniping spells are good only for characters that don't go in close combat. Wizard, BSB are good target. But all the sniping spells from the lore of death are short range. So you need a sorceress on pegasus to be really usefull. It's a good strategy, but not an optimize magic phase. I need a way to play my magic that could be usefull in an all-comer list. Death caster on pegasus with powerscroll is a strategy that will not be usefull for all opponent (against other elf, it's not that good). And many comp system are banning that powerscroll. I've come with a basic strategy to use at his best our magic phase!! Often, fast, powerfull and safe!



First of, normally I use the Darkstar Cloak and not power scroll.

Death also have hex spells - two of the best in the game actually in terms of getting the upper hand in combat. Soulblight is tremendously effective to turn a combat around and can affect several combats on a higher casting value = alot of vp.
Doom and Darkness is the most easy VP of all: Charge a regiment with a hydra or cauldron blessed CoKs. You know that you are going to win, but the opponent will be steadfast. Then throw a Doom and Darkness and see them run like hell anyway. This spell can also affect multible combats by hitting the enemy general. His bad leadership will then spread to nearby combats. Tasty!

In addition: When do you not want enemy characters dead? Sniping the general is always 300+ VP - often alot more! Characters are nearly always essential to the opponents plan. What better way to break opponent regiments than sniping their bsb?


Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:08 pm
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:18 pm
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Location: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
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Auere wrote:

In addition: When do you not want enemy characters dead? Sniping the general is always 300+ VP - often alot more! Characters are nearly always essential to the opponents plan. What better way to break opponent regiments than sniping their bsb?


Here, general are habitually 200-250 pts.If they are, they generally have 1 more Ld than any sorceress we have. They got good Str and good T (around here). So any sniping spells from death are great, but situationnal. Too much for a "optimized magic phase".

That NEVER mean that I will never play death lore. But my strategy was build around an all-comer lore, backed by a low casting lore who can be cast with 1 dice. Death don't fit in any one.

Plus, I'm a little tired of damage spells!! I've played buff/hex spells in my last games, and fund them stronger than damage spell, killing one character is good, making him flee because you did 20 wounds around him and receive less than 5 is always great!

Exemple: what will you do with your sniping spells against a low character army? Against a low cost characters army like the 150 night goblins backed by 10 cheap goblin hero? 35pts is not that great to cast on. But buffing/hexing that unit is ALWAYS good for you, no matter how many point your opponent spend on characters.

Attacking leadeship (doom and darkness) is a good strategy, but you need to first beat the unit. If you do enough wounds to prevent the steadfast, and/or prevent enough on you to deny steadfast, isn't better than dropping 1-3 ld point on a steadfast/re-roll unit?


Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:59 pm
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Yea, Doom and Darkness is definitely one of my favourite and a very powerful spell imo. Except, it'll only work if you actually win the combats, which we struggle with when we only dish out S3 papercuts ;)

For that reason, I keep my Shadow Lore so I can actually do damage and actually win combat to make them take the tests. Doom and Darkness is particularly useful against stubborn foes :D

For an optimised magic army I think Dark Magic is the better all purpose lore followed by fire and shadow.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:08 pm
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:18 pm
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Location: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
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Meteor wrote:
Yea, Doom and Darkness is definitely one of my favourite and a very powerful spell imo. Except, it'll only work if you actually win the combats, which we struggle with when we only dish out S3 papercuts ;)

For that reason, I keep my Shadow Lore so I can actually do damage and actually win combat to make them take the tests. Doom and Darkness is particularly useful against stubborn foes :D

For an optimised magic army I think Dark Magic is the better all purpose lore followed by fire and shadow.


You're not the first to talk about fire. Maybe that lore is a little undersee. I'll take a closer look on it to improve my tactica.


Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:21 pm
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Dark Rider

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Fire lore is not bad, it just lacks the flashy spells, but once ppl will go back to more units instead of the few big hordes they use now, ppl will return to fire for the magic missiles that are excellent to take out harpies, shades and similar small units that can mess up your plans.

Me, i dont like to gamble on shadow or deaths dependancy on Ini tests, and as such, IF i use magic, its dark or metal, with metal being my favorite for a lvl 4.

its a great lore to boost your own troosp with, chariots with a 1+ AS?, execs with a 3+? +1 to hit and AP is nice in prolonged combats (when hatred expired) or when ye want to get less poisoned attacks (KB blessed WE) or need to hit some ethereals.

final transmutation is a mass kill spell that is NOT depedant on char tests (and as such on your opponents army or getting off another spell first) and the plague of rust is a must dispell spell of forever have the consequences.

I see the metal lore as a sort of magical CoB, the better your army is cpable o using it, the better it is.


Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:30 pm
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Executioner
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Indeed, it'll be especially good when all your troops have some basic heavy or light+shield armour so you can improve it to 3+. I've tried that before, my 10 executioners actually suffered minimal casualties before they swung back. Didn't break the enemy of course, but that moment where I won combat was just "OMG WOW!"

I also actually think fire works better when the enemy has massed large units. Flame Cage, Piercing Bolts and even the 6th spell works better when the enemy has many many models or deep ranks. The only problem I have with it is that all its attacks are S4, and there's too many direct damage and magic missiles (5 out of 7?). Rendering most of the lore useless once combat commences in turns 3-6. That was my only issue with it when I tried it out. It sorta hampers your magic when you're working on an optimised magic phase.

Shadow and Dark is useful because 3/4 of their spells don't require forward arc or line of sight. So it's easier to maneuver and face a more useful direction.

And metal for me, range is a bit short, especially glittering scales, you'll practically have to be in the middle of your army and your troops can't wander too far off :(
I also don't think many of the spells have a choice to extend their range too right?

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:04 am
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