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Harpies? 
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Warrior

Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:22 am
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After reading quite a bit on this forum i noticed all the love for harpies (yes looking at you Callison :lol:) haha just wondering why? what makes them a must take? what is their role in your armies?

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:22 am
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Dragon Lord
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What do you need? Harpies can do it.

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:25 am
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Warrior

Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:22 am
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^ that can't be true.

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:29 am
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Noble
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CoryL99 wrote:
^ that can't be true.

They are effective as warmachine hunters, scavengers, and generally as cheap roadblocks. They can practically fill almost any role of expendability.

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:38 am
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Dark Rider
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Hey All!

As above but with the new skirmisher rules now they actually have IMO gotten better as redirecting that in 7th ed.

Give em a run and see how you go.

For the points they are gold!

Cheers!

H :twisted:

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:12 am
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Corsair
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It's not a love for harpies.
It is the understanding of the necessity to have agile troops.
Harpies are one of them, along with Shades, DR and Peggymasters.
They are called "agile" because they scout or vanguard or fly; they can reform at will (skirmishers, fast cav or lone model); they are not expensive (so it excludes units like 10 DR, 15 Shades, Mantimaster or Dragonlord).

The roles agile troops have in common are:
- to hunt warmachines as early as possible (warmachines are one of the deadliest threat for our T3 elves);
- to hunt light agile troops themselves (a very secondary role);
- to disrupt the opponent's move (sometimes, even a rerolled march test is blocked - but more importantly, the need to maintain 1" separation at all times can even prevent a large unit from wheeling at all if there is a nearby unit);
- to "scavenge" in the late turns of the game, i.e. to chase depleted fleeing units in order to get the victory points. This can best be done by charging but shooting will sometimes suffice.

In addition, small fast troops (not necessarily agile) can be used to "push-push" opponent's troops who selected to flee: Fleeing a charge away from BG could be a sound option, but if the BG redirect to someone else and a flyer charges again the fleeing unit, then that unit is now very, very far away.

In addition, light units (not necessarily agile) have a role:
- small units can be considered expandable, and used as "roadblocks" or "speed bumpers" (sometimes it is tricky to obtain).
- they provide living screens to more valuable units which benefit from a hard screen (-2 to shoot). Skirmishing units are good for that role, because themselves get -1 to be shot.
- expandable small units with high enough Initiative can suicide-charge an opposing unit sheltering a vulnerable magic-user or BSB, kill him and who cares for the retaliation annihilating the unit?
- a tactics could also be to side-charge a large unit already in melee: you get +1CR for charging (only once), +1CR for side-charging (which remains), you prevent the opponent from reforming at all. The drawback is that you offer more targets to your opponent. In order to mitigate that, you could charge as a single conga line, but some people hate that.

In these last roles, however, care must be taken not to have your light unit killed to the last model at 6" of a friendly unit, or panic and move through a friendly unit: you would have to test other units for panic, too. Unless they are harpies (who don't panic anyone, even harpies), or unless your other troops are ITP (frenzied, stupid or BG).


As you see, harpies fulfill well all these roles.
When a list has enough agile troops, there is no need for Harpies.
When a list has no agile troop, then the cheapest ones are probably the easier to get (at the expense of something else) than the most expensive ones.
This is why Harpies are more easily recommended than DR, Shades or Peggymasters.


Now, be aware that they are crap in melee:
no hatred, 2 weak attacks, no armour, no command group, no character, no assassin, no COB benefit...

Napoleon said:
"you can do anything with harpies... except seat on it."
(or did he say that about baionets?)



CoryL99 wrote:
(yes looking at you Callison :lol:)
Looking at who? :roll:

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:37 am
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Warrior

Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:22 am
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* Calisson sorry about the mis spelling. you make very valid points ill have to try them out. I dont know if im sold yet but we will see.

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:24 pm
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Highborn
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You forgot their most important role. Harpies are also the perfect unit for deployment baiting. Against any army and scenario, their ability to reveal your opponent's strategy is golden. Dark Riders can fulfill this role as well but not as god as your Harpies.

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Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:34 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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2x5 or 2x6 Harpies were standard in every 7th edition list I built, but I'm having a harder time making space for them in 8th edition. I have been using Shades to fulfill a similar role, but I do miss the extra deployment filler and flexibility that harpies provide. That being said, I struggle to justify having them. There are plenty of battles where they could easily prove their worth, but also plenty of battles where the extra chariot or 3-4 ranks of warriors I could take in their place are more useful.

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Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:17 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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For me 3x6 of harpies is still a must (more would scream for cheese)
They now have a front and sides, they can fly up to your opponent and make him virtually charge side way's, or try to move around them under RBT or RXB fire :D. they take out war machines, nicely. plus since now more and more wizard;s are miscasting, they are excellent at dealing that extra wound.

they are better than in 6 + 7 ed. combined (except for the LOS). Especially since DR have been mutilated so much.

Plus they provide cover for your troops, either land them in front of archers, or keel 1' away form your troops (much better option, since you won't get charged) and instant hard cover (-2 to hit) for your priceless DE troops.
Since your have cover now all you need is another unit of harpies to target those war machines.

for me they are unreplaceable. still use shades, and in bigger battles a unit or two of DR.

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Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:22 pm
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Warrior

Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:22 am
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@KillerK that summary made me want to try some haha how many do you take in 2000?

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8th ed. Record win-tie-loss
Dark Elves: 2-0-0
Bretonnians: 0-0-0
Painted:
Dark Elves 1000pts.: 80%
Bretonnians 1000pts: 50%


Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:39 am
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