Crone and the CoB

[Too cold]

I was considering using Crone to make WE core. I started going through the rules and I have some questions.

1st - The BRB says "characters can not join war machines" (pg 97) however, our army book (should over ride) says Crone can "accompany" a CoB (pg 66 DE book).

The question for this is:
A- Can she still join the CoB?
B- Does she recieve the +4 ward save while she is in the unit?
C- Are shooting/magic randomized between the CoB and Crone 1-4 Cob 5-6 Crone? If so, are the shots/magic allocate towards Crone calculated from her own toughness profile?
D- How would an initiative test be worked out? Would the CoB auto fail but Crone would still be able to test for herself?

It seems to be worth trying a CoB + BSB with Crone if the benifits are strong enough. Having WE as core in large games might really be worth it.

[Dalamar]

Characters can no longer join war machines.
Crone was overlooked in the FAQ but personally I'd use her like an empire/dwarf engineer.

To recap:
Engineer within 3" of a war machine can use Look out Sir rule as if standing by a unit of 5+ models.

So Hellebron would benefit from 4+ look out sir (which basically works as ward save for her), but she would be targettable separately from the cauldron (so put her behind it so she will also get hard cover for shooting through units)

[Jl177]

I think she can be apart of the COB just like a regular death hag; the army book always trumps the BRB.

Tomb King priests are still apart of the casket of souls (just as an example), so that is one example of characters with war machines in 8th. And death hags are characters too, so there's another example. I would treat Crone and the COB the same way.

[Too cold]

Crone was overlooked in the FAQ.

I was thinking this as well.

However I just wasn't sure. There are more questions that could become of this if she were able to.

another question is; if a vortex or Int test spell was successfully cast with her in the CoB could she use her +4 up item to dispell it so the war machine had a chance of surviving before a int test would be required. If so, it would really boost the magic defense of the CoB unit.

[Calisson]

DE army book p.90 does not mention the cost for Crone's COB (no COB is mentioned at all in her equipment p.90).
To "accompany" is defined nowhere.
This means that the word "accompany" p.66 means nothing and just deserves a deletion by a FAQ.

However,
let's suppose that p.66 was to be used litterally (which I do not support).
Let's suppose that the COB for Crone was the same price as the COB for a DH (that's in the DH entry, not in the COB entry).
In that case, Crone would be treated just like a DH, i.e.
4+ ward save, 100% shots going to the T10 COB, the COB including Crone would autofail I tests. Her fighting abilities would be useless unless the COB was charged by an enemy, as she would not be allowed to leave the COB.

The difference would be one more wound for the COB and a better fighting profile. Also, her talisman would help a lot defend the COB against all kind of spells directed at her.


What Dalamar suggests (like Empire's engineers - not Dwarves) would work only for friendly games (but can Crone be friendly? sounds like an oxymoron), with opponent's prior approval.

For regular games, however, you have to stick with the options listed for Crone in p.90 (i.e. you cannot pay for a COB).


But did you consider Crone on a Manti?


EDIT: see also: Hellebron?

[Jl177]

I guess now that I look at the entry in the back of the DE book (pg 90), no where does it mention an upgrade of a cauldron with Crone like it does with a death hag. I guess she can't take a cauldron. The statement on pg 66 about "accompanying" a cauldron is apparently without meaning now until it gets FAQ'ed.

[Too cold]

DE army book p.90 does not mention the cost for Crone's COB (no COB is mentioned at all in her equipment p.90).

Totally true, no where does it say that the CoB is a purchased/mount option. But if she is able to "Accompany" ("join") it as it is written, it wouldn't be a mount or option to buy. It is simply stating she can join a CoB. Fluff wise it makes perfect sense. BRB wise it is forbiden. Army book wise, she can join a CoB.


It does not seem unreasonable that she can "accompany" (join in addition to) the CoB per the way it is written; While at the same time not requiring a cost on page 90. Kouran is a additional cost to a unit up grade. The CoB is not up grading the Death Hag to Crone. We are not paying to replace the DH with crone either.

Crone on a Manti .... a little to costly as I would already be paying for a CoB / BSB it would just be a great place to park her for the befinits of the two units.

[Meteor]

Speaking of combat profiles. With the standard CoB purchased by a DH, which set of stats do we use? I've been rolling them separately, and had been using the lower WS of the model until one attendant has been killed before I started using the DH's WS when enemies attacked me. Is this correct? Or do they use one universal stat line when attacking AND defending throughout the whole time?

[Dalamar]

You use DHs WS for her attacks and Attendant WS for attendant attacks.
When the enemy attacks back you use the highest available WS like for any model with multiple profiles.

[A18no]

I've posted it in a different place, but just for discussion:

Hellebron is the death hag who take the cauldron, or she really join a death hag in a cauldron, becoming the 4th crew...

The perfect hellebron:

Hellebron, cauldron of blood, BSB hag with ASF banner...

610pts, Ld10 general/BSB, can give bonus to a unit, 6S10 attacks, and near 10 attacks from the cauldron, everything ASF with 4+ ward....

[Dalamar]

Hellebron can't buy a cauldron herself.
She used to be able to join one.
But 8th edition war machine rules prevent any characters from joining war machines (hence why engineers got an update).

And your "perfect" hellebron will never see combat, she'll be hit by a I test spell, fail the 4+ spell immunity roll and fall down the hole, never seeing combat. Cauldron of Blood can't charge. Even if you could (and you can't) join Hellebron to it, she would be able to charge out on her own... not the smartest move.

And who in their right mind would charge it?

[A18no]

Hellebron can't buy a cauldron herself.
She used to be able to join one.
But 8th edition war machine rules prevent any characters from joining war machines (hence why engineers got an update).

And your "perfect" hellebron will never see combat, she'll be hit by a I test spell, fail the 4+ spell immunity roll and fall down the hole, never seeing combat. Cauldron of Blood can't charge. Even if you could (and you can't) join Hellebron to it, she would be able to charge out on her own... not the smartest move.

And who in their right mind would charge it?

Behing a 610pts unit, that is the BSB AND the general... bringing effectively 810 of victory point if you can kill 7 life point at T3 with 0 armor and 4+ ward...

[Creedence]

Being a 610pts unit, that is the BSB AND the general... bringing effectively 810 of victory point if you can kill 7 life point at T3 with 0 armor and 4+ ward...

That to me screams shoot it.

[Dalamar]

It has T10 against ranged attacks... but against characteristic test spells... yeah.

[Creedence]

With the new wound chart enough shoots should still finish it. If there is one thing we are good at it is sending out a lot of shots.

[Dalamar]

in 7th, you needed about 50 S3 hits to kill all the crew of the cauldron with ranged attacks.

in 8th the average is almost exactly the same... nothing changed.