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- Executioner
- Posts: 180
- Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:11 pm
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hey guy. is it worth taking the asf banner on the black guard?
this is because they get a reroll of hatred, then again for eternal hatred warrior elite(good rule for these guys, i love them) and asf?
the halberds do work on everything.
this is because they get a reroll of hatred, then again for eternal hatred warrior elite(good rule for these guys, i love them) and asf?
the halberds do work on everything.
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
You get to reroll a die only once, so you won't get to reroll twice because of warrior elite and then asf... just once.
But giving them ASF banner removes ASF of enemy troops (say, whole high elf army).
But giving them ASF banner removes ASF of enemy troops (say, whole high elf army).
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
well yeah i think it compliments their max unit size well. if you could put say thirty i wouldn't see the use, because if both have ASF you strike at the same time not following I. be that as it may, BG lose models easily (T3 5+AS) so you'll start losing attacks fast. striking at the same time can really help a combat. But against most army's it isn't really needed.
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- Corsair
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:31 pm
hey guy. is it worth taking the asf banner on the black guard?
this is because they get a reroll of hatred, then again for eternal hatred warrior elite(good rule for these guys, i love them) and asf?
I think that you're suggesting that black guard get three re-rolls:
- Re-roll for hatred
- Re-roll for warrior elite
- Re-roll for asf
As Dalamar mentions, you only get one re-roll per roll, so not only does the asf banner not give them an additional re-roll, but eternal hatred doesn't give them an extra re-roll in the first round of combat either. It's a single re-roll maximum.
As stated, this would only ever really be a useful banner against HE. For everyone else you'd be much better off taking a banner such as banner of murder or razor banner.
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- Tethlis
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1444
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:54 am
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
I definitely think the Banner of Hag Graef is too situation to be of much use here. Yes, good against High Elves, but wasted against virtually everyone else. I would rather have Banner of Murder or Banner of the Eternal Flame, and have used both to good effect in 8th edition so far. Banner of Murder lets those Black Guard threaten virtually anyone, especially if you're using Lore of Shadow to make the enemy easier to kill by dropping their WS or Toughness. Eternal Flame is a great surprise against those Varghulfs, Hell Pit Abominations, Hydras, Nurgle Daemons, Treekin, or building-entrenched opponents you sometimes run into.
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- Executioner
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:17 am
Watching the Cold One mounts themselves re-roll against plenty of armies is particularly gratifying.
If they have BoHG the mounts get to Re-roll, because of ASF, but only in the first round of combat. but .the riders get to re- roll every round due to eternal hatred?
No banner means only riders re-roll?
- Ichiyo1821
- Highborn
- Posts: 784
- Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:03 am
Dirty Mac wrote:Watching the Cold One mounts themselves re-roll against plenty of armies is particularly gratifying.
If they have BoHG the mounts get to Re-roll, because of ASF, but only in the first round of combat. but .the riders get to re- roll every round due to eternal hatred?
No banner means only riders re-roll?
Err as long as the Cold Ones have equal or higher initiative they get to reroll..You'll be surprised that against Lizardmen, Dwarves and what nots your Cold Ones do get ASF re-rolls. Hit a High Initiative unit with Miasma and even the dinos get those potshots.
8th Edition
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86/1/5
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W/D/L
32/1/0
9th Age
W/D/L
Vae Victis
Character kill count -182
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."
Armies
Dark Elves
Dark Eldar
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W/D/L
86/1/5
New AB
W/D/L
32/1/0
9th Age
W/D/L
Vae Victis
Character kill count -182
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."
Armies
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Dark Eldar
Death Korps of Kreig
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- Corsair
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:31 pm
it could be argued that cold ones do get hatred re-rolls, it states in the rules for eternal hatred that hatred also applies to mounts whilst the riders are still alive this may not still apply as that piece of text was referencing the old hatred rule, but it could be argued that the army-book overrules the rulebook. How do you all think that should be interpreted, do cold ones have hatred or not, because the army-book says they do referencing 7th Ed. hatred, but 8th Ed. says they don't.
Veni, Vidi, Voro!!!
All things perish, this is the law of existence, accept your suffering and your mortality, only by using this truth, can you transcend it.
All things perish, this is the law of existence, accept your suffering and your mortality, only by using this truth, can you transcend it.
- Masked jackal
- Noble
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:26 am
Malus99 wrote:it could be argued that cold ones do get hatred re-rolls, it states in the rules for eternal hatred that hatred also applies to mounts whilst the riders are still alive this may not still apply as that piece of text was referencing the old hatred rule, but it could be argued that the army-book overrules the rulebook. How do you all think that should be interpreted, do cold ones have hatred or not, because the army-book says they do referencing 7th Ed. hatred, but 8th Ed. says they don't.
Because it was FAQ'd, they don't.
8th Edition Druchii War Report:
W/D/L: 30/1/15
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W/D/L: 30/1/15
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Masked Jackal wrote:Malus99 wrote:it could be argued that cold ones do get hatred re-rolls, it states in the rules for eternal hatred that hatred also applies to mounts whilst the riders are still alive this may not still apply as that piece of text was referencing the old hatred rule, but it could be argued that the army-book overrules the rulebook. How do you all think that should be interpreted, do cold ones have hatred or not, because the army-book says they do referencing 7th Ed. hatred, but 8th Ed. says they don't.
Because it was FAQ'd, they don't.
oh, damn. Thanks
Veni, Vidi, Voro!!!
All things perish, this is the law of existence, accept your suffering and your mortality, only by using this truth, can you transcend it.
All things perish, this is the law of existence, accept your suffering and your mortality, only by using this truth, can you transcend it.
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- Black Guard
- Posts: 263
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The Virgin Forest: Well, that does rather depend on your perspective on the issue of literal rules as written (RAW) and rules as interpreted (RAI) and the arguments for and against would need to be discussed in a whole other thread (which has been done before, and probably will again - see if you can find the old Empire 'swan of war' debate for an exemplary example of the arguments on both side) This thread probably isn't the place for it.
(edited for poor spelling and grammar)
(edited for poor spelling and grammar)
Last edited by Red... on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
"While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. So answer the question."
Don't be a munchkin?
I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
Don't be a munchkin?
I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
The Virgin Forest wrote:Beyond that, you should never argue for things, you very well know, go against the general principles in the rules. These arguments drain the game of fun, and its much more gratifying to win from actual tactics instead of some random rules loophole
I'm not trying to exploit the rules, I just like angry cold ones
Veni, Vidi, Voro!!!
All things perish, this is the law of existence, accept your suffering and your mortality, only by using this truth, can you transcend it.
All things perish, this is the law of existence, accept your suffering and your mortality, only by using this truth, can you transcend it.
- Tethlis
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1444
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:54 am
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Malus99 wrote:I'm not trying to exploit the rules, I just like angry cold ones
Agreed. Hatred on Cold Ones actually made the mounts seem to fit the fluff too, as being something that's actually capable of killing something, rather than juts sort of stumbling around, biting people with rubber teeth and being too inept to use its jaws and claws to actually injure something (i.e. their current rules.)
I'm not complaining about Cold One Knights as a unit, but the lizards themselves are pretty lackluster without Hatred. Banner of Hag Graef helps to bring some of that back.
I'm actually fine with them not benefiting from the Hatred rule. The way I see it, they're just animals, and stupid ones to boot. Why would they hate anything/everything?
Compared to an empire warhorse, they have a lower I but S4 is nice for showing how they can tear a hole in someone. WS3 also seems reasonable for an animal. Compared to a standard trooper (with 3's for all stats), they look pretty mean and tough. That's enough for me, I guess.
Compared to an empire warhorse, they have a lower I but S4 is nice for showing how they can tear a hole in someone. WS3 also seems reasonable for an animal. Compared to a standard trooper (with 3's for all stats), they look pretty mean and tough. That's enough for me, I guess.
- Masked jackal
- Noble
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:26 am
Iff wrote:I'm actually fine with them not benefiting from the Hatred rule. The way I see it, they're just animals, and stupid ones to boot. Why would they hate anything/everything?
Compared to an empire warhorse, they have a lower I but S4 is nice for showing how they can tear a hole in someone. WS3 also seems reasonable for an animal. Compared to a standard trooper (with 3's for all stats), they look pretty mean and tough. That's enough for me, I guess.
It's not really in-line with how powerful they are in fluff, however. Cold Ones have the potential to be just as devastating as their riders, sometimes, and Hatred is a good way of representing them nomming on the enemy unit.
8th Edition Druchii War Report:
W/D/L: 30/1/15
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W/D/L: 30/1/15
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