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Dark Riders 
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Corsair

Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:31 pm
Posts: 80
Now i have never been really adept at using these guys, but they seem to me to be less viable now that my opponents have free reforms with muso. maybe it just doesn't go with my play style that i get 5 fragile horse-dudes for the price of triple that in warriors.

I understand that they are made mainly for(were) march blocking and warmachine hunting, but my guys never seem to actually get there before being blasted to bits.

i think my question is, how do you use these puppies in an effective manner?


Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:54 pm
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Executioner
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
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For aggressive use, I find they're excellent at suppressing enemy fast light units like Seekers, even Flesh Hounds, Marauder Horsemen etc. When used to mass fire, they're also good at attacking lightly armoured enemies like Ogres, High Elves and Giants.

They also place a fair bit of pressure and psychological impact onto your opponent too. They'll easily be in the flanks or even behind your enemy's line by your turn 1. No one likes being surrounded, and if you manage to divert a unit away from the battleline then you've achieved something already. But it simply adds a thorn in the side for them, especially when you mass them onto a flank, or back them up with Shades in the flanks.

They're excellent baiters too because of their feign flight ability, making them more desirable than Harpies for that role. In my opinion anyway, because they have a better chance to rally than harpies. Harpies can't move again when rallied, and sometimes you'll find they don't flee far enough and stop right in front of your advancing unit, blocking them.

So they have a lot of uses once you start fielding them and become more familiar with them in 8th ed. Expectations are different, but no less important than your other units.

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Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:23 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:31 pm
Posts: 80
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You make them sound good! the first few times i used them i think i just did it wrong, so i just assumed they sucked, and stopped using them.


Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:52 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:54 am
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Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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My view on Dark Riders is this: they're good, but not necessarily good enough to purchase in place of other things. We have so many good options in our armybook, even when filling up that 25% Core requirement, that I struggle a bit to justify buying Dark Riders.

Still, as Meteor rightly mentions, noone likes being surrounded, and being able to quickly get into the enemy backline is a powerful thing. The amount of Disruption they cause to an enemy's battle plan and general confidence can be invaluable, though I'm still not sure I'd take them over other things.

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Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:36 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:57 am
Posts: 79
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Another useful trick is to deploy them on a flank, where your opponent will most likely deploy something to counter them (especially if you put two units over there). You then use your vanguard move to reposition them back towards the center. This can also influence your enemy into placing any warmachines closer to the center, where flank shots are harder to get and where they are more vulnerable to overruns, panic, etc. 5 dark riders with RxBs are under 120 points. I almost always run 2 units. Usually 1 dies a horrible death, while the other performs magnificently. Of course I've been running fast cav units since the first Dark Elf army book came out, so I've gotten pretty good at using them to annoy and frustrate my opponents.

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Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:48 pm
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Executioner

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:22 pm
Posts: 154
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I think the question here is: should we take harpies or dark riders?

5 dark riders are 85 points while 5 harpies are 55. Both have the ability to hunt war machines well, both can "marchblock", both can be used as redirectors and both can reform as much as wanted. So is vanguard and feigned flight worth 30 points? I'd say no. The idea behind redirectors is that they are expendable and so the 30 extra points being spent seems silly when the aim is to put them in the way of opposing units. Also, harpies have the skirmish rule so are harder to shoot.

Another way to field dark riders is with crossbows, but at 110 points for five, they're too expensive to throw away and can't generate that much fire-power. Also at more than 100 points they could be a game winner for the opponent. I know this sounds a little impractical but when games get defensive 100 points makes a big difference.

There are some good points for riders however. The aforementioned skills as well as adding to your minimum core points and carrying a banner for Blood and Glory (but that's an easy banner).

If I did take some riders I'd go for just five with musician. No crossbows, losing 10 shots from your army shouldn't make too much of a difference. Let them attack war machines and small missile units in the flank; then hold them back for afterwards, only putting them to redirect if its essential.

Tom out!

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Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:43 pm
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Assassin
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:15 pm
Posts: 566
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i use 2 pack of 5, with only musician and 5 harpies.

I never regretted using them.

Most of the time, i only use them to really annoy my opponent ; getting behind his line, and place myself for a rear charge.

Sometimes that's enough to keep them on their toe.

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Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:56 pm
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Trainee Warrior
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Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:58 am
Posts: 35
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Plus rear charges to help tip a combat as rears add 2 cr they can help win combat and if they die so what there not me just more elfs who are ploting agaist me. (I must stop getting into caracter so much).

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Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:35 pm
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Executioner
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
Location: Hell
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Yea, at the start i only used harpies. After reading some articles here and reviewing some older lists that were sucessful, i began to implement dark riders in. I struggled to find them useful at the start. Eventually reasons why dark riders are better than harpies began to pop up. Now i dont leave home without two units of 5 armed with rxb AT LEAST. Harpies have become second in priority compared to DR even though i can get two units of harpies for the price of five DR with RxB. Food for thought ;)

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:30 pm
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Executioner

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:17 am
Posts: 186
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DR ar still very good and useful, but not so good as they used to be.
- Cannot brake ranks wit the new rules so a side charge is far less devastating.
- Flee and move is less useful now since the redirect rule. 2 units of 5 DR will no longer be guaranteed to pass that enemy charriot on the flank.
- Template weapon boost with no partials makes them more voulnerable

That beeing said they can still be very effective if you use them smart. And that takes some practise.

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Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:50 am
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Corsair

Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:31 pm
Posts: 80
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yeah i just have to not suicide them which is what tends to happen. and they tend to get massacred by shooting when i use em, but ill give em a go again.


Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:54 pm
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Highborn
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:57 pm
Posts: 733
Location: Everywhere, Nowhere
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Just keep them away from shooting. This is not all that more difficult than it sounds unless you are playing against a gunline. Even if your opponent deploys his ranged units across from your dark riders, use your vanguard and 18 inch march move and gallop to safety. Part of my deployment strategy has been to get my opponent to commit a large number of ranged units on one flank to counter my Dark Riders, and then just not be there. It really doesn't matter if your opponent can reform and shoot if your Dark Riders are out of range.

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Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:38 pm
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Black Guard

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:49 pm
Posts: 263
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I like to field 2x5 with RXBs and musicians, combined with shades they quickly add pressure where I need it. I find them much more useful than just another regiment of warriors :)


Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:22 pm
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