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Some tactics for DE vs WE 
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Slave on the Altar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:41 am
Posts: 6
OK so a friend of mine is deciding to build a WE army composed of all forest spirits led by drycha, i dont know his exact list but he said it'll be along these lines.

i was wondering what you guys thought would be a good list or tactics to take to him?


Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:53 am
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Executioner
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Lore of fire to counter ward vs mundane attacks as well as obtaining flame sword for the same purpose but to also allow you to wound on 4+ with S3 vs his T4.

Plenty of R&F troops to win combats through SCR or to tie them up so you can hit home with your other support elements.

Stay away from forests and avoid combats in them because skirmishers are steadfast in them and you lose steadfast. It's not easy to wipe them all out in a war of attrition, especially when you lose hatred after the first round.

You could attempt to shoot them down, but you'll be very inaccurate since you suffer -1 vs skirmishers on top of multishot and usually long range or movement.

But like anything, you don't necessarily need to tailor a list to beat his, if you make yourself a balanced competitive list, then you'll still do fine.

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Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:57 am
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Executioner

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:22 pm
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agreed wtih Meteor on the tailoring front, if you practice with whatever army you want to take enough, then you'll get better at using that army.

Although, searing doom is a great spell for fighting treekin/treemen due to its flaming abilities plus no armour or ward save, and you always say its not tailoring because you put it in there for steam tanks, knight buses etc. ;)

TBH I would attempt to take some points off the WE army, then play in a defensive fashion. Once the hard hitters are down, then there isn't much in his army that can take points off of you.

Which lore do you take? Does your list include a flying character? These could both be great weapons in the game.

Good luck

Tom out!

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Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:19 pm
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Black Guard

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:49 pm
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How about trying to play against it first, I find that to be a great way to learn a lists strong and weak points :)


Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:43 pm
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Cold One Knight
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In my experience against that type of list, I have found being able to manoevre well to be the best way of winning, as you do not want him to be able to screen himself and isolate your units. Hydras and COK are both great tools for out manoevring your opponent. Lore of Fire is also a great choice as your lore.
cheers,
-Ave


Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:03 pm
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Beastmaster

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:51 am
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When fighting against wood elf armies I find the best tactic I can use is to turn up.

I use a combat army and there are few things to worry about:

S4 shooting in half range is lethal vs CoK/small units, so don't approach that closely until combat threats are neutralised.

Treemen are tough. Especially when lore of life replenishes their wounds. That said they aren't particularly scary.

Be careful of lone characters, they can hit hard and move quickly. I wouldn't bother bringing any shooting tbh but thats just me.


Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:09 pm
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Executioner

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:22 pm
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On a more gaming point of view, perhaps just spend 5 more minutes every turn thinking about your moves, thinking some turns ahead, as if you make a mistake it might be hard to get those points back.

You said your friend was building a WE army, how far off is it from being fieldable?

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Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:23 pm
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Executioner
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Hi there,

I would avoid trying to overwhelm a WE player with shooting. But we can field some nasty units when it comes to CC purposes.

5-6 CoK with Banner of Eternal Flame. With CoB support, these guys will take on most forest spiritswith ease.

Chariots can be great support unit. They're resilient to WE arrows and provide some nice CR.

And what about hiding an Assassin on a Warrior unit that has the flamming attacks banner? Reveal him, move him towards a Treeman and shoot him. On an average roll, you will score 2-4 wounds on it. Can combine it with some of the "sword" spells from Lore of Fire/Metal to auto-hit/auto-wound for fun XD.


Byee


Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:30 am
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Slave on the Altar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:41 am
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I've only really played two games against him so far and they were at 1000 points as we're getting the armies together.

i did ok in both of them my cold ones proved amazing but i lost both due to bad placement of my spearmen and crossbows, learning as i go though.

I wasn't planning on having a flying character in my army but that is an idea, what sort of things can you make fly?

Also what would be something that i could take to defend against or destroy his drycha because i've heard it's a pain.

Thanks,


Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:38 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 8:12 am
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Location: UmeƄ, Sweden
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Honestly, I'd say every part of the DE army is superior to the WE equivalent, so just tool up with whatever you feel like and you should still be ahead. :)


Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:06 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Wood Elves are underestimated in 8th edition. A good Wood Elf player, with a well-built list, can not only match but beat a similarly competitive Dark Elf player.

Magic isn't a guarantee. The Wand of the Wych Elm is a great, standard magic item on their Level 4 casters that allows them to re-roll all dispel attempts. They can get a respectable number of bonus Dispel Dice too.

Dryads, Treemen and Treekin devour Dark Elf infantry, and our shooting is not a great counter for them due to their high toughness, and ward saves, while Dryads skirmish and Treekin also have respectable armor.

A Treeman supported by Lore of Life and BSB rerolls can hold up most Dark Elf units indefinitely as long as as their support remains. However, as has been mentioned, Flaming Sword of Rhuin or Lore of Metal are their major weaknesses. Witch Elves can get the job done as well, with Banner of Murder or Banner of the Eternal Flame, but it will take a while to do so and the Treeman will still have good protection versus those poisoned wounds.

As has been mentioned, the Hydra and Cold One Knights are great units to use, coupled with magic support. If you see anything that's an Elf, and not a forest spirit, then go for it; they'll fragile, they're not very good in 8th edition, and they're worth a lot of Victory Points.

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Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:56 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Generally agree with Tethlis.

Chariot's shine agains WE.

Taking down the Treemen will be difficult, but our stuborn unkillable lord has a respectable chance in stoping him. Giving time for your unit's to do some harm to the rest of his army.

And if he has a unit of more then 6 treekin, then your in trouble, they will analiate any thing they touch. But it's a unit costing around 400 point's. They will strike first against most of your troops, have a 4+ save and 5+ ward, 5 S and T, 3 W, making them very durable, and dishing our 3 Attacks from two rank's, is plain nasty. Normally I would sugest Giant Fire ball, but as Tethlis mentioned that wand will make it extreamly difficult casting a spell you really need. Use our defult spell wisley, to maximise your dice. The WE have and v. good magic defence all of a sudden.
Out of 3 games I managed to win the last one. Generally because I avoided his combat unit's, killed support unit's and then went after the rest. I tried out movouvering (their skirmishers hit much harder
) and smacking them head on (their combat unit's are better then our's), so don't unless your shure to win.

The dryad's tend not to like our DP master's (but WE can have killing blow on scout's, so be carefull), previously mentioned Chariot's and CoK are alway's good.

That's pretty much all I can remember.

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Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:18 am
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:58 pm
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I play against Wood Elves quite a lot, and the single best thing I would recommend would be Lore of Fire. Flaming Sword on Cold One Knights is devastating against treemen, and will be just as nasty against any other forrest spirit. The fireball spell is also great. Wood Elves have low toughness and little to no armour, which makes them prime candidates for fireballs, especially against small units who are relying on their long range to stay out of trouble.

Finally, Flame Cage is a horrible thing to cast on an army who relies on their movement so much.

Of course, getting these spells off is the trick.


Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:40 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Units that you probably should NOT use are Shades, harpies, Dark Riders, or anything resembling an MSU/small detachment playstyle. These are simply giving up Victory Points to the Wood Elf player. They'll die quickly and abruptly to bowfire in most circumstances, especially since Wood Elf archers are notoriously hard to sneak up on since they can reform/move and shoot without any To Hit Penalty. Wood Elves rely very heavily on Strength 4 short range Glade Guard fire to help chop down elite infantry regiments, remove support units, and counter the Hydra and other combat monsters. If you get an opportunity to charge Cold One Knights or a chariot into Glade Guard, it's very worthwhile.

Another thing to remember is that longbows have a 30 inch range, so Wood Elves are content to sit outside the range of repeater crossbows and force the Dark Elf player to advance. Keep that in mind if you plan to rely heavily on your shooting presence.

In scenarios, Wood Elves have to take special precautions to be sure they can compete. Dryads and Treekin are great for holding/defending Watchtowers, so don't underestimate them. Similarly, a Wood Elf army may be light on banners. A smart Wood Elf player will field a BSB, plus 3-4 banners on his Glade Guard units, so the army doesn't instantly lose by not fielding enough of them. However, some Wood Elf lists will include significantly fewer, so you can often force an easy win by removing one or two key units.

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Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:33 am
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Slave on the Altar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:41 am
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k thanks guys i'll keep that in mind as i go.


Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:50 am
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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only fought them once. saddest time finding out that treekin are flammable whilst dryads weren't (what?! it was my 3rd game!!!)

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Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:14 am
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Dryads aren't Flammable because they only have one wound... There's no point in trying to inflict multiple wounds against a one-wound model.

From a fluff perspective, Dryads are magical creatures... Their table top miniatures represent their war aspect, but they also shapeshift into the forms of young elf-like women, so their form itself is magical. Treemen and Treekin are spirits, i.e. formless beings that inhabit trees and dead wood and use that as a host for their form, so they are literally made of wood and therefore can be lit on fire.

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Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:31 pm
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