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Malekith 
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Shade
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Hi guys,

I haven´t found a specific thread about our great King, so I´ll start one here.

I was tinkering with a list and it always came around having a DL for Ld and fighty punch plus a lv 4 for magic. That´s when I started considering Malekith, which I never did in 7th and the 2000 pts standard lists.

For 600 points on foot he´s roughly the same price as the above mentioned option of characters. He´s 3 W less, but far harder to kill, with some quite nasty rules. You get the benefit of both lords, but improved, plus the absolute power rule.

With 4 hatred WS8 high I attacks, destroyer is brutal and should take the edge of most enemy combat characters. Spellshield is also excellent, being a real threat to enemy wizards, particularly the big spell users. The 2+ ward doesn´t need comments and not suffering more than 1 wound from multiwound weapons is also great.

I was thinking about putting him in a BG body guard (fitting..), unleash dark magic and get him into combat with enemy characters fast. Together, they seem like an excellent centre for the battle line.

What are the thoughts about him in 8th?

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[/i]There was no sin in Naggaroth save weakness: the Witch King commanded the fealty of conquerors and slave masters - anything less was prey. [/i] Malus Darkblade

Pictures of my army:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=67423
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Tue May 17, 2011 12:28 am
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Trainee Warrior

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Well he is to many points for 2000pt game, and from a story line view i love him. As a tractics point of view, i hate to wrap all my eggs in one basket. One bad miscast and well no more combat character either.

As for our beloved King, i think he is awsome and take him in non competative games, with strong story lines. Special Characters always help drive a narrative.


Wed May 18, 2011 1:34 pm
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Cold One Knight
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Does Malekiths protections agains multiple wounds not also save him from miscasts etc? I do not have the book with me but I think the rule states something like:

"Attacks that do multiple wounds or kill outright only ever inflict a single wound on Malekith"

Does this not also save him from miscast kills or spells that remove models from play?


Wed May 18, 2011 2:09 pm
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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I think it does save him -- but he's still not worth the points.

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Wed May 18, 2011 3:29 pm
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Cold One Knight
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Well, I do think Malekith is worth the points....He just has to be used tactically and smart. We Dark elf players have gotten spoiled with unkillable Dreadlords and Bsbs and such, who you can throw at about everything on the field if you so desire.

Malekith can be truly amazing on the field of battle if used in the right way. He has so many options and his possibilities are almost limitless.

He grants LD 10
Makes everything withing 12 inch immune to panic
He is Immune to Psychology
He gives an extra dispel dice
He gives an extra powerdice
He is a lvl 4 caster
He has T4
He has WS 8
He has Str 5
He has Magic Resistance 2
His spell shield blows up enemy wizards
He has a 4+ AS base (better when mounted)
He has a 2+ ward save vs non magical attacks
He destroys magic items or magic levels in close combat
He can never suffer more then 1 wound from a single attack
He has 3 different mount options

He fullfills a lot of different roles in an army. He is good at Combat, Magic and Supporting nearby troops!

His biggest potential is however between the synergy of his combat and magic abilities. With dark magic you can buff him up to 6 wounds (soulstealer), make it very hard for magic item wielding heroes to hit him (word of pain) before Malekith destroys their magic weapon and thus regain his 2+ ward.

Oh and last but not least: He is the friggin' Witch King of Naggaroth, Son of Aenarion and rightfull ruler of Ulthuan. He conquered most of the Old world millenia's ago, smashing the Greenskin hordes into oblivion, trampling Chaos back to their wastlands like they were nothing. He made Ulthuan rich beyond believe in befriending the Dwarven race (which the dumb ass High Elves messed up later) I mean come on, the only reason your Empire opponent can field his silly little gunline is because Malekith allowed them to evolve when they were grunting in caves, playing with bones! And Deamons? Please...Malekith threw himself into the Chaos Realms........and returned! None of you petty races have anything on our King! All hail Malektih!

Hell, just being able to tell your opponent that is worth 600 points in my book!

D...

.


Wed May 18, 2011 5:19 pm
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Shade
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Lord Damian Valar wrote:
Well, I do think Malekith is worth the points....He just has to be used tactically and smart. We Dark elf players have gotten spoiled with unkillable Dreadlords and Bsbs and such, who you can throw at about everything on the field if you so desire.

Malekith can be truly amazing on the field of battle if used in the right way. He has so many options and his possibilities are almost limitless.

He grants LD 10
Makes everything withing 12 inch immune to panic
He is Immune to Psychology
He gives an extra dispel dice
He gives an extra powerdice
He is a lvl 4 caster
He has T4
He has WS 8
He has Str 5
He has Magic Resistance 2
His spell shield blows up enemy wizards
He has a 4+ AS base (better when mounted)
He has a 2+ ward save vs non magical attacks
He destroys magic items or magic levels in close combat
He can never suffer more then 1 wound from a single attack
He has 3 different mount options

He fullfills a lot of different roles in an army. He is good at Combat, Magic and Supporting nearby troops!

His biggest potential is however between the synergy of his combat and magic abilities. With dark magic you can buff him up to 6 wounds (soulstealer), make it very hard for magic item wielding heroes to hit him (word of pain) before Malekith destroys their magic weapon and thus regain his 2+ ward.

Oh and last but not least: He is the friggin' Witch King of Naggaroth, Son of Aenarion and rightfull ruler of Ulthuan. He conquered most of the Old world millenia's ago, smashing the Greenskin hordes into oblivion, trampling Chaos back to their wastlands like they were nothing. He made Ulthuan rich beyond believe in befriending the Dwarven race (which the dumb ass High Elves messed up later) I mean come on, the only reason your Empire opponent can field his silly little gunline is because Malekith allowed them to evolve when they were grunting in caves, playing with bones! And Deamons? Please...Malekith threw himself into the Chaos Realms........and returned! None of you petty races have anything on our King! All hail Malektih!

Hell, just being able to tell your opponent that is worth 600 points in my book!

D...

.


Exactly!

You guys that don´t think he´s worth it from a pure gamely point of view, what is your reasoning? I see him as a very much improved DL and all the stuff Lord Damian listed seems to more than compensate the 3W extra that a lv 4 would have, as it´s far easier for her to loose them than for Malekith to loose his (considering he´s save from miscasts).

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[/i]There was no sin in Naggaroth save weakness: the Witch King commanded the fealty of conquerors and slave masters - anything less was prey. [/i] Malus Darkblade

Pictures of my army:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=67423
My Rorhirrim:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/LOTR_Brasil ... st=0&#last


Wed May 18, 2011 9:15 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Because of his point cost, the smallest game he can be fielded in is 2400, but he is a point sink un-upgraded. That's why most people didn't field him in games smaller then the 3000 point range at the least as there's a quarter of your army right then and there.

I can see him comfortably in a 4000 point game, leading a legion of devastating warriors to the field of battle.

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Wed May 18, 2011 10:16 pm
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Black Guard
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Personally, I used it in a 20 BG unit and on foot of course. In a 2500pts list, he just shined!
As the spell shield is I think the best anti-magic item of the game, I might try it in a 12-strong COK unit with ASF banner.
At last there is a decent magic defense for my hammer unit!

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Wed May 18, 2011 10:37 pm
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Assassin

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Babnik wrote:
As the spell shield is I think the best anti-magic item of the game


i think that goes to the high elf banner of world dragon


Wed May 18, 2011 10:51 pm
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flash29 wrote:
Babnik wrote:
As the spell shield is I think the best anti-magic item of the game


i think that goes to the high elf banner of world dragon


As the banner stops them for buffing their own squishy unit, and is quite expensive and means that the bsb is vulnerable. I agree with Babnik, it is the best anti-magic item in the game.

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Thu May 19, 2011 5:30 am
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Cold One Knight
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Also, the high Elf banner simply stops people from casting at the unit and picking other targets. Our Kings Spellshield add psychology to the table. The unit can still be affected by spells, but in doing so you risk your precious wizard blowing up. Also, if you use little dice to cast the spell, it is more easily dispelled and thus you get wounded, so casting with more dice reduces the chance of dispelling, but if it does get dispelled you get more wounds. This can make opponents doubt their actions, and when your opponents doubt their actions, Druchii smile!


Thu May 19, 2011 8:08 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Sweeping death wrote:

You guys that don´t think he´s worth it from a pure gamely point of view, what is your reasoning? I see him as a very much improved DL and all the stuff Lord Damian listed seems to more than compensate the 3W extra that a lv 4 would have, as it´s far easier for her to loose them than for Malekith to loose his (considering he´s save from miscasts).
He's not a 'very much improved DL' because he doesn't have the pendant of Khaleth or the stubborn crown. He's an ok dreadlord, who doesn't want to fight vs heroes with magic weapons.

He is not better than a high sorceress, because he doesn't have the sacrificial dagger.

He is fairly priced for his abilities, but he is also a general who can miscast himself to death and is limited by his short ranged lore (admittedly one of dark magic's few faults) and a poor armour save.

I've used him plenty. He's ok, but not as good as having an optimised dreadlord and optimised supreme sorceress. If only he had all 6 spells of his lore, I think he would be a serious choice, I think.

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Thu May 19, 2011 11:15 am
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Cold One Knight
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But then again, he leaves space for using an unkillable pendant wearing Chuck Norris peggy BsB and a lvl 2 with the dagger as support.

I'm not saying there are no better ways to implement 600 points in an army, just saying in my opinion he is a pretty good and masterly fluffy choice.

Reading through the army lists I get a bit depressed with the lack of creativity sometimes.....I mean, just how many lvl 4 Shadow Sorcs with sacrificial Daggers are there in Naggaroth?


Thu May 19, 2011 11:53 am
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Shade
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I was thinking to use him inside a BG unit too, like Babnik said.

I understand that he´s possibly not THE optimized Pendant DL or Dagger Sorc., but he has higher T and S and the his own magic items are interesting enough. I actually think that, one on two, Malekith would do short work of the Pendant DL and the Dagger Sorc...

One objection that I didn´t understand though, is not using him against magic weapons heroes, as that´s exactly where I want him. 4 high I, high WS hatred attacks should mean between 3-4 hits, which should mean 1-2 destroyed magic items. Against combat heroes, these are most probably magic armour or weapons. If Malekith destroys the magic armour, the 3-4 S5 hits have great chances of killing the hero outright. If it destroys the magic weapon, you have your 2+ ward. And even if not, the ability not to suffer more than a wound per attack is yet another protection. Plus he has higher T than the normal DL. Plus word of pain, extra wounds from soulstealer etc., as suggested above by another member.

Anyway, I agree with lord Damian and the excessively repetitive lists around and have serious doubts that they are really the only effective ones and shall give our great leader a chance to see how he performs.

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[/i]There was no sin in Naggaroth save weakness: the Witch King commanded the fealty of conquerors and slave masters - anything less was prey. [/i] Malus Darkblade

Pictures of my army:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=67423
My Rorhirrim:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/LOTR_Brasil ... st=0&#last


Thu May 19, 2011 9:15 pm
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Assassin

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he doesn't destroy a item per hit, if he hits 1 item gets destroyed i believe.


Thu May 19, 2011 9:40 pm
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Shade
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flash29 wrote:
he doesn't destroy a item per hit, if he hits 1 item gets destroyed i believe.


Yeah... I´ve just checked it out and, unfortunately, you´re right. That really changes the odds. :cry:

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[/i]There was no sin in Naggaroth save weakness: the Witch King commanded the fealty of conquerors and slave masters - anything less was prey. [/i] Malus Darkblade

Pictures of my army:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=67423
My Rorhirrim:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/LOTR_Brasil ... st=0&#last


Thu May 19, 2011 10:45 pm
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Cold One Knight
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Sweeping death wrote:
flash29 wrote:
he doesn't destroy a item per hit, if he hits 1 item gets destroyed i believe.


Yeah... I´ve just checked it out and, unfortunately, you´re right. That really changes the odds. :cry:



Don't put a crying face in there! We are Dark Elves.....Changing odds in our favor is what we love best!

Malekith is not so stupid to be bested by some random magic sword! Just steal some souls from the opponents unit and he is up to 6 wounds. Let him utter some words of pain and that enemy hero is hitting on 5s.

And well.....even if there is some uber character with some insane sword out there...Malekith may simply decide the mongrol is not worthy of his personal attention and sends in Chuck Norris on his peg to hold the bugger of, while he destroys the rest of the amry. Or send in a nice unit of Knights or even some pet Hydra.......It's not that hard.

Simply because his 2+ ward does not work against magic weapons, doesn't mean one must panic when an opponent has one........"Oh crap, you have a sword of Might....damn man, you got me!"

D...


Fri May 20, 2011 6:33 am
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Black Guard

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Can't he be sniped out by Death Magic?

i also thought he knew all spells in Dark Magic... no?


Fri May 20, 2011 6:41 pm
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Assassin

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whobetta wrote:
Can't he be sniped out by Death Magic?

i also thought he knew all spells in Dark Magic... no?


well he can, but he has mag res 2 and if he dispels his spellshield wrecks the sniper

Malekith is a lvl 4 wizard who knows spells from the lore of dark magic so 4 spells

morathi's entry say's she knows all spells of the lore of dark magic

So only 4 spells which means your gonna have to give up 2

personally i'd give up doombolt and possibly chillwind, maybe bladewind.


Fri May 20, 2011 7:31 pm
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Shade
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Lord Damian Valar wrote:
Sweeping death wrote:
flash29 wrote:
he doesn't destroy a item per hit, if he hits 1 item gets destroyed i believe.


Yeah... I´ve just checked it out and, unfortunately, you´re right. That really changes the odds. :cry:



Don't put a crying face in there! We are Dark Elves.....Changing odds in our favor is what we love best!



Yes sir, you´re of course right. Shame on me :oops:
Our great Witch King, ruler of all Elves, master of magic, defeater of Chaos, scourge of the lesser races and avenger of Anlec is still the coolest! 8)

I´m going to try him out. I´m rereading the first novel of the Sundering Trilogy and in 2500 points armies I think he can have a place and play competitively enough.

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[/i]There was no sin in Naggaroth save weakness: the Witch King commanded the fealty of conquerors and slave masters - anything less was prey. [/i] Malus Darkblade

Pictures of my army:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=67423
My Rorhirrim:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/LOTR_Brasil ... st=0&#last


Fri May 20, 2011 8:43 pm
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I feel bad because the first day back from vacation and all I recalled was that he used to have a glove of some sort that made him strike last. I wondered what happened to it.

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Fri May 20, 2011 10:19 pm
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Black Guard

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huh, weird..

i could have sworn either a FAQ or whatever ruled that he knew all spells from the lore...

oh well.


Sat May 21, 2011 1:04 am
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Since 8th ed, I prefer to field a large 10-12 COK unit with ASF rather than 20 BG. As Malekith can mount a CO, it might a better option now.

The only problem is that he is supposed to be in close combat and he'll not be able to cast most of dark magic spells.

What are thoughts of Malekith leading COK unit?

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Sat May 21, 2011 8:55 pm
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I think Malekith on a COK unit is the best way to go. You can more comfortably pick your fights, staying away from magic attacks that might threaten him while at the same time buffing his base armor save to a very comfortable level. The benefits of ASF are nice for him due to his high base strength, and lets him use Destroyer to maximum effect every turn. Cauldron buffs for that unit as a whole is quite nice as well, and the extra speed means you can easily get Malekith into range for all those Dark Magic spells quickly.

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Sun May 22, 2011 6:54 am
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Shade
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I think malekith is a good spellcaster and good in combat, but not stellar, a
kitted out supreme sorceress or dreadlord can do either job better. But, he is a powerful general, resistant ot magic, unkillable with mundane attacks, though i would watch out for a kitted out character with a magic weapon beacause the destroyer rule is a 4+ roll and then which item is destroyed is a random roll.

Overall, a good caster with the extra PD and DD which is very nice, quite resistant to spells and mundane attacks and good either on foot or cold one, thoug more maneuvaerable on cold one to get into position( just hope not to be stupid for a turn !). Also, i think it rather silly he only haas access to 4 spells rather than all of the dark magic lore seeing as he and his mummy invented it.... my two cents worth....


Sun May 22, 2011 3:12 pm
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