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How Many Harpies? 
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:50 pm
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I see a lot of 'How Many *'s???' queries so I figured I'd add my own.
I love using 12 COK
2 units of 14 RXB each? tempting...
I love using 15-20 BG
I am going to be using 20 WE and probably 30-40 Spears/ Corsairs

but Harpies. I have 6 and am finishing more- but how MANY when playing in he 25-3000 area against TOUGH players?

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Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:46 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Harpies are ridiculously useful. 2 units of 5 are the minimum I ever use. I use 5 units of 5 when I want to really crush an opponent. I found the key was to remember - Harpies don't cause panic even to other Harpies!

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Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:41 am
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Executioner
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Personally, I use 2 units of 5. One could take 2 of 6, but have not enough points in my current list.

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Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:30 am
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Noble
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Hello L1qw1d.

As a rule of thumb, 1 harpy unit of 5 per 1000 points, should make reasonable answer to your question.

To answer in more detail, we need more information.
Do you play under any sort of restrictions?
What are your regular opponents? How many warmachine hunters do you need?

Harpies can be especially devastating when you are playing against frenzied troops for instance.


Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:50 am
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Highborn
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Imo in bigger games, Harpies still have their uses but suffer from diminishing returns. In bigger games, depending on your role for them, Shades perform better as they will always have something to shoot at on the other hand Harpies will always have something to bait and misdirect.

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Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:44 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Always in unit's of 6, and as many as I can field. there is always need for 1 more charge redirector of speed bump. Can never have enough, Id field 30 If I could. Only have 18, and always use them. And always want more.

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Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:42 pm
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Quote:
Hello L1qw1d.

As a rule of thumb, 1 harpy unit of 5 per 1000 points, should make reasonable answer to your question.


This seems like a very sensible guideline.

While march blocking is all but a thing of the past, harpies are still incredibly useful for bait and direct, warmachine killing and even mage hunting (to a lesser degree). I wouldn't take more than 1 unit of 5 per 1,000 points though, as they are quite weak in CC and have no missile fire - you can end up with what I refer to as "my harpies having a tea party behind my enemy" - ie they're too weak to be worth charging at anything, and so just sort of hang around behind my enemy's lines not doing much, waiting until the end of the game...("charge that big unit of chaos warriors in the rear guys? no? okay, let's just hang out here then...fancy some more tea?")

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Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:43 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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For reasons Red high lighted, I dont use Harpies. Used to use them reguarly, but 8th changed my thoughts on them.

For 30 points more, you can get 5 Shades with two handweapons who have hatred, LD8, Crossbows, WS5 BS5, can be blessed by the COB and can scout. All you lose is fly, which IMO isnt that useful with harpies as thay can be march blocked way too easily.

Shades are BETTER at warmachine hunting, and they are not useless against high T/AS or ASF opponents, because they can shoot, and they are very effective because of their BS5.

This is why mostly all of my lists now adays (2000-2500 points) have 2 units of 5 Shades.

I'd consider harpies if they filled min core, but they don't, so mine stay at home.

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Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:29 am
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Harpies, Shades, DR and Peggy-Masters are what I call "agile troops".
- 5-6 harpies
- 5-6 AHW shades
- 5 DR, muso
- 5 DR, muso, RXB
- 6 DR, muso, pennant
- Peggy Master with mundane armor
- Peggy Master with magic gear ("Chuck Norris")

Light troops can go very quickly behind the opponent's lines and are perfect to hunt warmachines and scavenge fleeing opponents;
that you can sacrifice without remorse;
but which hardly can sustain a prolonged fight against anything significant.
I'm sure that there are many other uses that other posters will mention.

Although all agile troops share many aspects, they have all some distinctive traits which favour this troop over that one.
I find very nice to mix them rather than take the same troop several times.

Scyloc'x rule of the thumb would become:
One agile unit per 1000 pts.
select whichever fits best your style.

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Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:02 am
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Calisson pretty much nailed it with the exception that I hate coining a master on DP as Chuck Norris... where I come from we all hate that guy...

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Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:07 pm
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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I personally run more fast harassing troops than most, in part because I seem to fight Empire a lot and really want to be able to flood the enemy war machines so that I can be taking out multiple war machines by turn 2. In a 2500 point list, I typically run 2 units of harpies, 2 units of shades, 2 units of Dark Riders, and 1 or 2 characters on pegasi.

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Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:50 pm
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Demetrius the Betrayer wrote:
For reasons Red high lighted, I dont use Harpies. Used to use them reguarly, but 8th changed my thoughts on them.

For 30 points more, you can get 5 Shades with two handweapons who have hatred, LD8, Crossbows, WS5 BS5, can be blessed by the COB and can scout. All you lose is fly, which IMO isnt that useful with harpies as thay can be march blocked way too easily.

Shades are BETTER at warmachine hunting, and they are not useless against high T/AS or ASF opponents, because they can shoot, and they are very effective because of their BS5.

This is why mostly all of my lists now adays (2000-2500 points) have 2 units of 5 Shades.

I'd consider harpies if they filled min core, but they don't, so mine stay at home.



What your not taking into account though is this. Harpies are dirt cheap and cause no panic checks. Sure shades are better at getting warmachines, but your giving up about 100pts. Harpies are about half that. In a army of elites like dark elves you need cheap trash troops that can go gum things up and then die with out it costing you much. Harpies are that unit.

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Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:01 pm
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Giest- 5 Shades with AHW are 85, 5 Harpies are 55. Its only 30 points and I find I get alot more out of Shades than Harpies.

Everyones different I guess, if you dont have the extra 30 points, harpies can fill the niche but not as effectively IMO.

Harpies not causing panic is nice though. But realisticly, my shades are generally too far away to cause panic in anything else (except my other shade unit), Ive only had a problem with it once.

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Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:45 am
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But then, Harpies is not a threat other than speeddumps... or?
I casted mindrazor on them in tournament and my opponent didn't laughed so much after that. Of course you cant do that more than 1 time because your opponent will learn but that first time will be awesome! :D


Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:15 am
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Rending Star
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The one big advantage Harpies have over Shades is, that you can really use them to delay an opposing unit for one round. Shades are usually too slow for this (20" flying move is so much better than 10" on foot; and they are cheaper and do not cause panic also).

This one round delay can change the outcome of a game.

I often play Cold One Knights, and for them it is crucial to get the charge (unlike most other units where it doesn't matter much). If it doesn't work out, prevent a charge from your opponent with Harpies and you get another round to charge your knights in.

The flying movement also makes them better at attacking warmachines. They are simply more reliable in reaching them.

One other thing, which they are great at, charging fleeing units. If your opponent flees from a charge, and you have Harpies positioned appropriately, charge them again, so they must flee again, and maybe even end up off the field.

I generally like "agile troops" as Calisson called them, and often have 4 such units in 2500 points (i.e. 2x5 Harpies, 2x5 Shades).

So, to answer the initial question, I would also consider 2x5 Harpies the absolute minimum. 4x5-6 Harpies is about the maximum I would field in 3000 points. I don't think you need more than that.

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Thanee


Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:07 pm
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