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New way fire rocks hard core. 
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Noble
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Flame cage and this.
Q: After accepting a challenge must the challenged model always
move into base contact with the enemy model that issued the
challenge? (p102)
A: If the challenged model is on his own then he must move
into base contact, as long as this does not require him to move
to a different facing of a unit he is engaged with. If the
challenged model is in a unit he must move as long as it does
not require leaving his unit. Where it is not possible for base
contact to be made then leave the models where they are and
simply assume that the two models are in base contact.

This is so simple and so evil its not even funny. Move in to a unit, on your turn cast the cage, call out a challenge making sure your challenge caller is not in base contact, they must either refuse it or move to the back. Mind you this only works on units with characters in it. Watch as how suddenly the unit has no regen and takes a crap ton of damage before combat even begins.

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DEATH FROM ABOVE DRUCIH AIR CAV!!!!

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Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:32 am
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Assassin

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:29 pm
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Location: belgium
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although fumilating flame cage says if the unit moves, a character is a part of a unit but not a unit, otherwise it would be a very solid tactic to remove regen , for instance on grave guard with drakenhoff banner.


Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:27 am
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Highborn
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even if they refuse the challenge they still have to move to the back... simply diabolical :twisted: i presume just the character would be affected though as the unit he/she/its in doesnt move =[

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Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:56 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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flash29 wrote:
although fumilating flame cage says if the unit moves, a character is a part of a unit but not a unit, otherwise it would be a very solid tactic to remove regen , for instance on grave guard with drakenhoff banner.


Q: Can characters change position inside a unit as part of a normal
move?(p97)
A: Yes, as long as they end up in the rank closest to the front
of the unit that has a space in. It is also worth remembering
that even if only the character moves the whole unit will count
as moving that turn
. Having a belligerent officer barge his way
through the unit is not conducive to a good round of shooting!

The bolded text is simply to draw the readers attention =)

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Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:08 pm
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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This. ^ Tactic seems valid to me.

Only problem is I always use Shadow ...

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Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:18 pm
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Noble
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So what you do Dyvim is add a lvl 2 with tome of fire to your list. Then when you toss the cage on them they wont expect it and doubtful they will stop it. Once that is done wither them with your level 4. After I posted this I thought of ways this could be even more nasty.

Shadow wither, baking on 3's or 2's.

Flaming Sword, as to make all your hits auto wound.

If you can ever have access to windblast.

Net of amyok.

Yes I know two of those lores are not available to Dark elves but at this point its about how messed up you can make flame cage.

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DEATH FROM ABOVE DRUCIH AIR CAV!!!!

The Machine will grind you down.

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Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:28 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Tome of Fire?? Tome of Furion do you mean?

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Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:57 pm
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Noble
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Tome of Fire, Tome of Furion its all good lol. Yes the tome of Furion.

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Flyers for the win in 8th.

DEATH FROM ABOVE DRUCIH AIR CAV!!!!

The Machine will grind you down.

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Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:06 pm
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:29 pm
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Location: belgium
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yes intresting tactic fully valid, and that means you can spam anti regen spells (with a lvl 4) if you play combat, since sword of rhuin can also take away and hurt in combat, and fulmiating flame cage can hurt on a regen block.


Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:14 pm
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Noble
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I bring news from an Indy GT. I first off had a judge rule the spell my way WOOT, despite a skaven player bemoaning that it shouldn't work, but ontop of that I actually got to use it. Killed 12 rats in one turn, lord was running solo so didnt break em that turn but it worked LOL.

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Flyers for the win in 8th.

DEATH FROM ABOVE DRUCIH AIR CAV!!!!

The Machine will grind you down.

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Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:57 pm
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I would have to side against this tactic for the reason these actions are in (2) separate phases of the game. Moving happens in the movement phase, this tactic is a close combat phase. A character moving within a unit is a voluntary action, the "make way" is a combat action. I realize this is probably against the popular belief, but I have a feeling it will be FAQ'ed and ruled this way. The key is "part of a normal move" - moving to gain btb contact in a challenge is not a normal move.


Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:45 am
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Noble
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You can argue against it all you want, but your still wrong. The movement phase is not the whole of the argument. The argument is ANY MOVEMENT. The FAQ's support this clearly, you move to accept a challenge the unit counts as moving. You can not argue against something that is that plain to see. Come up with something more than just movement phase and we can talk about your POV having a point. Until then more facts for your argument and less "feel this way". IE its not popular belief, its reading the rules and wording and understanding how they all work together.

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Flyers for the win in 8th.

DEATH FROM ABOVE DRUCIH AIR CAV!!!!

The Machine will grind you down.

The League of Extraordinary Druchii


Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:16 am
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Corsair

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:00 am
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That tactic is just.. AWESOME! How come no one have thought about it before..?


Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:18 am
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:00 am
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I do have a feeling it will be FAQ'ed though... :/ Better use it while we can!


Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:22 am
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Post 
Geist wrote:
You can argue against it all you want, but your still wrong. The movement phase is not the whole of the argument. The argument is ANY MOVEMENT. The FAQ's support this clearly, you move to accept a challenge the unit counts as moving. You can not argue against something that is that plain to see. Come up with something more than just movement phase and we can talk about your POV having a point. Until then more facts for your argument and less "feel this way". IE its not popular belief, its reading the rules and wording and understanding how they all work together.


..I'm not arguing, just stating my opinion. This is a game exploit/loophole/something GW overlooked while putting together the last round of FAQ's, to me and not in the good nature of the game. Play how you would like, if your opponent agrees great. If you need tactics like this to win, well, enough said, I will hold my tongue.


Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:31 am
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Noble
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So using any rule but the ones we know is being unfair or working with a crutch?
Reading the rules and finding out how things work is a loop hole?
Odd I thought this game was a growing of the mind ie mental work out to read develop and in general try new things constantly so nothing stagnates.

As to you holding your tongue, your reply is exactly not that. Not only do you make a weak argument using nothing but "this is how I feel it should be" you have also indulged yourself in slander. Do not slander me for presenting a whole new idea and then on top of that backing it up with rules and facts instead of your touchy feely this is how I think it should work crap. If you truly have nothing to say then do not bother to reply.

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Flyers for the win in 8th.

DEATH FROM ABOVE DRUCIH AIR CAV!!!!

The Machine will grind you down.

The League of Extraordinary Druchii


Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:02 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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While I don't think it's an exploit of the rules, I do think it's clever. I also think the premise is flawed and I'll mail $5 to anyone who can pull it off without cheating.

In other words, the scenario prsented in this thread is impossible and anyone who responded to it has been duped.

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Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:31 pm
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Noble
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Alright phierlihy.
Who has been duped and how? How is doing exactly as I stated cheating? What makes it impossible? Your pulling the touchy feely and not providing facts your entire argument is based on "I think". While thinking is great for getting ourselves places and figuring things out, the statement "I think" has never by it self been a defense in any case or debate. You need facts to back up your side currently you have none. As to that 5bucks you owe me. Like I said earlier I pulled it off at an Indy GT and ontop of that I had a judge approve it. So if a judge lets me do it how can I be cheating?

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Flyers for the win in 8th.

DEATH FROM ABOVE DRUCIH AIR CAV!!!!

The Machine will grind you down.

The League of Extraordinary Druchii


Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:05 pm
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Corsair
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Mod's note:
Easy, mates.
Tactics forum is about discussing tactics, not judging each other.
Anything along rules can be discussed (even the conga line!).
To like or not what is discussed is another matter. Myself, I don't like the dagger and never used it, but I will not object that someone did and I can even discuss its use.

There are two uses for the tactics forum:
- to learn and understand new tactics with the intent to use them
- to discover legal tactics, seemingly unfair, but still, better be prepared to face that tactics during a tournament and have other options than yelling "cheater".
If you don't like what is discussed, fine, but at least accept to discuss it rather than just stating that it is unfair.


From now on, I want to see only arguments which are supported by clear explanations. Not opinions about "fair", "spirit of the game" or whatever is not clearly explained in the rules.

Sentences like those are not acceptable:
"If you need tactics like this to win, well, enough said."
"the scenario prsented in this thread is impossible" (and nothing to support that sentence).

A sentence like the following one is true, but I wish the author applied it until a mod took charge of saying it.
"If you truly have nothing to say then do not bother to reply."


Please stop answering each other about opinions.
Please keep discussing facts and rules.

Thank you.
Calisson

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Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:45 pm
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As the spell cannot be cast into combat, the scenario presented cannot occur.

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Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:56 pm
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Highborn
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the flame cage is a hex spell, and so can be cast into close combat.

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Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:08 pm
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Gah! I've duped myself!!

I'll send myself $5...

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Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:18 pm
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Noble
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phierlihy

Now that I have seen why you thought that I can relax a tad. Because lets be honest your comment had me up riled and ready for war. Now its just funny. I eagerly await your 5bucks. ;)

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Flyers for the win in 8th.

DEATH FROM ABOVE DRUCIH AIR CAV!!!!

The Machine will grind you down.

The League of Extraordinary Druchii


Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:43 pm
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Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:58 pm
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Just out of curiosity, would this also apply to the curse of anraheir (sp?)? From the lore of beasts, making all terrain difficult.


Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:07 pm
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It appears so.

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Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:21 pm
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