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Help! 2500 League Match against High Elves! Fixed lists. 
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:59 am
Posts: 22
Hey guys, currently have a match coming up against a high elf player in our fantasy league. In our entire league, high elves are the only one I am uncertain of and wary of fighting, due to their high I and always strike first across their entire army.

My list:

Dreadlord: [Dark Pegasus, Sea Dragon Cloak, Heavy Armor, Great Weapon]
+Crown of Command, +Dragon Helm, +Pendant of Khaeleth
=288

Supreme Sorceress: [Level 4]
+Sacrificial Dagger, +Talisman of Preservation
=330

Death Hag: [BSB, Cauldron of Blood]
=225

Dark Elf Warriors x22: [Standard, Musician]
+Standard of Discipline
=156

Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen x20: [Standard, Musician, Shields]
=235

Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen x20: [Standard, Musician, Shields]
=235

Cold one Knights x10: [Champion, Standard, Musician]
+Charmed Shield, +The Other Tricksters Shard, +Banner of Hag Greaf
=365

Black Guard x20: [Champion, Standard, Musician]
+Banner of Murder
=320

6x Shades [Additional Hand Weapons]
=102

6x Harpies
=66

War Hydra
=175

His list (Rough idea from what I saw last week):

-Huge horde of spearmen. Possibly 50+ with a level 4 mage either Life or Heavens.

-Huge horde of swordmasters. Possibly 50+ with a level 4 mage either Life or Heavens.

-Great Eagles.

He has the banner of the world dragon (Immune to any magic for the unit) and most likely the banner of sorcery as well (Saw him gaining tons of power dice every magic phase).

That's all I saw, I'm sure there's a BSB in one of those 2 deathstar hordes and other characters or what not.

I know it's a very unusual list but he took out a very good dwarf player I know who ran the usual warmachine spam and magic defense. He uses lore of heavens at range and then lore of life to buff his units in close combat where they are nigh unbeatable.

I'm not sure how to handle this type of list. I can't really take it on head on so I'll have to pray I can pull off some multi-charges.

I normally run 2 hydras as well, but have switched one out for a unit of Black Guard.

This will be my first time running them, so any tips on how to use them would be appreciated.

Any suggestions on how to play against a high elf list with 2 giant deathstars?


Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:02 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
Posts: 987
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First, what lore do you have on your sorceress? That can make a huge difference.

Shoot the one that is immune to magic with everything you can bring to bear. Also, make SURE he knows you know that the one that is immune to harmful magic is also NOT going to benefit from augments. The Banner does not discriminate; NO magic goes through to the unit. Period.

The other big unit can, of course, be killed with magic.

Send the hydra as a flanker, to hit the spearmen in the side when the COK hit the front. With a cauldron blessing, those two should do the job if you've whittled them down somewhat first.

This is the one time you will actually want the Standard of Hag Graef on your Black Guard. Switch it out if you can. That way these guys are the equal of the Swordmasters, so you just have to shoot him down to below the size of your Black Guard unit.


Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:51 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:59 am
Posts: 22
Post 
Thanks Vulcan, the no augments part I would probably have overlooked!

Forgot to write it in but I have shadow on my sorceress.

I unfortunately can't switch anything out in the list, but yeah the ASF banner would have been perfect on the black guard. Oh well.

Focus all my shooting into the magic immunity unit, and all my magic into the other. Guess that works out pretty well.

Where should I aim to get my units into? You suggested Hydra + CoK for the spearmen. But I am more afraid of the swordmasters. It is a huge unit (40+) and I am not sure I can put a big enough dent into them through shooting even with 40 repeater bolt shots. The 20 black guard don't really stand a chance since the swordmasters strike first.


Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:02 am
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Highborn
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:03 am
Posts: 784
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I would still put the BoHG on the COK.

It's pretty straightforward imo.

Chances are, whichever unit has the Worldbanner either has his Mages OR that is his Deathstar. I will assume that he is a very good general so expect to lose a lot of your units but make sure that you take his units piecemeal. The match will be very movement dependent so you have to hit all your charges where you want them.

Basic plan:
(Since I do not know his specific list these suggestions might be a little broad)

First gauge if you can actually do harm to the Unit carrying the World Banner with shooting and if its worth it. If for say it is carried by the BSB inside a Spear unit and his mage, ignore it and shoot at his Swordmasters.

If the Swordmasters have it, by all means dump every shooting phase at them till they are wiped or no longer a threat.

Use the bulk of your COK and charge his main unit with the mage with it and use your BG as a flanking unit. That way you cancel his ASF with your BoHG and since your BG are on the flanks, they will get less attacks coming in.

Use your Shades to shoot his Eagle first or if the situation calls for it, sacrifice them along with your Harpies and position them 1" diagonally across a unit you want to re-direct to give you the sure free charge.

Be wary of him using Lore of Life. The last thing you want is to happen is you charge a unit, fail to break it then on his turn they become t8 and then countercharged by the Swordmasters. If this is unavoidable do this tactic of mine. Charge them with your COK. Whether you hit them or not, move the Harpies as stated above away from the COK. He will wipe the Harpies obviously on his turn but this move will put the SM away from the main fight. Now on your turn you have to either break the unit that you charged OR shoot the SM with the extra turn of shooting you mae for yourself OR countercharge that SM unit with your Spearmen block (provided your SS hoped over to the Crossbowmen) or throw the RXBmen in there as well. It's either you took out the SM to shooting anyway or if you didn't then sacrifice your RXBmen to them while you take out the rest of his army.

Since he is not running Shadow, your BSB will be safe. Buff wisely, against HE the +1 attack will almost always be better.

Since he has a horde of SM, he will barely have any units. Just keep it away while you take out the rest of his units out. Another is if he goes 10 wide (most likely) you can use terrain to hold them up as well as Miasma to reduce his movement early on. If he just hangs back and relies on magic and maybe a little shooting, reduce the BS of the archers with the Banner of Flame (most likely if he does field archers) to reduce the incoming damage or feint going for an early Pit of Shades by casting them on the Swordmasters and debuff instead. That way on his phhse he has to choose between removing the debuffs or buffing his own units. Just make sure that you dispel Throne of Vines as much as you can. Dwellers do little against your COK and Hydra anyway what you are avoiding is the regen and toughness buffs.

Again he will have a few units. Even if they are in Horde formation, just focus on killing one unit while slowing or misdirecting the other. Throw your COK, BG, Hydra into that one unit if you can then just tarpit the other with your Spearmen block and RXB blocks. If he has no shooting then let your SS wander on foot (take out Eagles first ofcourse) to free up her bunker. SM are t3, 5+AS. Whether or not you reduce their toughness, they will fall. My best example is I've killed 9-12 KoTR in one round of shooting, I've taken down a 30 man block of Bloodletters in 2 rounds of shooting (12-10 or so left after the first round). Those 2 units are both t3 with ward saves on top of it. One with no armor one with 2+AS.

That's it for now on the top of my head. Mind you you will lose a loottt of bodies to either Dwellers or Comet or whatnots. What's important is you dont get raped by the SM. You can gangbang on it later on after you've taken down his mage or reduce their numbers. Hitting them on the flank is Godsend though just remember, he can't do supporting attacks on the flank and he can't reform if he is engaged on two sides and he ain't stubborn. If you let's say get BG on his flank them a Hydra on his front, he does at most 12 attacks against your Hydra after he passes his Terror check, half of those he will miss, re-roll. You get your 6"s save then your regen, if you managed to debuff them or make them s2 or even s3 then you can carve them up with TS, BG and Hydra attacks. He won't be able to face the BG and be forced to split his attacks making it a lot easier for you.

It's pretty hard to give you tips on exactly what to do because there are so many factors involved but this is the beast I can do for it.

Guage target priority, whittle down with RXB fire one unit then you may or may not charge that unit with everything you got while throwing bait to the other.

Oh if you do get the opportunity to either divebomb his Mage with your Dreadlord + KB from the Cauldron, do it. If you do get the opportunity of charging his Mage unit with your COK then have your Dreadlord hit his SM unit from the rear or flank DO it! If you managed to do that and don't lose the Dreadlord it's pretty much downhill for him early on.

_________________
8th Edition

W/D/L
86/1/5

New AB
W/D/L
32/1/0

9th Age
W/D/L

Vae Victis
Character kill count -182

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Armies
Dark Elves
Dark Eldar
Death Korps of Kreig


Last edited by Ichiyo1821 on Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:17 am, edited 3 times in total.



Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:44 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:59 am
Posts: 22
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Thanks Ichiyo, that was EXACTLY what I was looking for, knew you would come through.

I feel a lot more confident now on going into this matchup.


Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:18 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:46 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Ann Arbor, Mi
I play a similar list to this AND I play high elves regularly as well. So I have some thoughts on this (in no particular order):

1. It's so often overlooked for some reason, but do your best to NOT use your hydra's breath weapon in combat. A str 5 flaming template weapon on the flank of the swordmasters or spearmen REALLY will dampen his day. My last two battles I've gotten it off - 1 on 40 White Lions, the other on 40 Grave Guard.

2. Personally, I wouldn't be afraid of sending the Dreadlord right into the teeth of the swordmasters...flank is OBVIOUSLY better, but a straight charge isn't too scary. With a 5+ AS and a 1+ (eq) Ward Save - and better WS, you should be pretty safe. Challenge right away to buy some extra rounds. You actually could win combat (albeit a stubborn roll for him).

3. Just an odd reminder. It's actually better to get charged BY the spearmen than to charge them in most cases. We all kind of know it, but anyone who's been playing for awhile is so used to TRYING to get off the charge. Obviously this is not the case for flank/rear charges :)

4. Do whatever you can to kill his BSB. It will be HUGE for this game. If it has the banner of the World Dragon on it, he is either has a crappy armour save since he's on foot, OR he has a very good AS but it means he's mounted. And if he's mounted, you pick him out and shoot him amongst the infantry.

5. Miasma is a hugely beneficial spell in this game. Don't forget that if he ties your init, he gets hatred. Drop WS and Init whenever you can and it will make a huge difference (specially on the Swordmasters)

Hope these tidbits are useful!


Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:10 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
Posts: 987
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Oh, yeah, you have the Unkillable Dread!

Give the Swordmasters a volley of RSBfire on turn one and put the UD right in front of them. They can either charge him, be safe from incoming RSBs but do NOTHING for the rest of the game, or try and maneuver around him. Repeat ad nauseum. In a pinch, you can probably do without the RXB fire! Keep challenging as long as there is something to accept, even with Lore of Life sooner or later something will stay dead.

That frees you to hammer the unholy he!! out of the spearmen with the whole rest of your army. Just... try and keep the BSB within 12" of the Dread, that takes him from breaking 1 round in 12 to 1 round in 24. Could be important.

Then, once the rest of his list is dead, you can decide if you want to try a combo-charge with everything you have left in an attempt to table him, or just rest on your laurels and laugh as his vaunted swordmasters struggle to even leave a mark on your general. :lol:


Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:03 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:59 am
Posts: 22
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Thanks so much guys, our match got delayed but it will be coming up this week!


Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:27 pm
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Slave on the Altar

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:51 pm
Posts: 6
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I just wanna comment on that last one:

Quote:
Oh, yeah, you have the Unkillable Dread!


Hahaha, well, if hes got 50+, that 10x5 plus a banner, you are already down by 6. If he then targets your Dark Pegasus and does 3 wounds which he should do with 13+ attacks, thats +9. Can you do 8 wounds (+1 for charging). Even if you kill 2 ranks, can you kill 6?

Oh wait, you have crown of command... Hmm, most likely, if he has high magic, he'll take seerstaff, choose the number 6 spell, and destroy a magic item.

By the way, im a high elf player, i know how we play. He'll most likely not take the banner on the spearmen, as he'd rather have spearmen die to shooting, then swordmasters. He should take it on the spears, put the mage in there, and buff the swordmasters. Average winds of magic + banner of sorcery = 9 dice verus a max. of yours being 6, average 4. In other words, dispel throne? Cool, they are toughness 5, 5+ regen, regrowthed swordmasters. Something like that.

Just sayin'.

Way to beat them?

Don't worry about the spears, kill the swordmasters, but thats what he wants i guess, then the spearmen (with the mage) can run rampage. Looks like a tough list!

He most likely has folariaths robe which means magic things can't hurt the mage, essentially, making him unkillable. If he doesn't have it (is it an open list?) then charge your dreadlord straight in, and make him pay.

However, 50x spearmen FC and a archmage with those robes is 750ish points. ANd 50x swordmasters is 750ish.

Expect 2 eagles, they are a pain. You have to deal with them, or they'll be nasty. Also a unit of dragon princes probably.

That gives him 750pts.

Im thinking he has a unit of white lions with the flaming banner, or maybe a unit of archers (14-21) with it. Most likely archers to make core. Still expect white lions, or a small unit of pheonix guard.

None easy to defeat.

Goodluck!

_________________
A tratior dark elf, or a traitor high elf, not entriely sure.


Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:52 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:59 am
Posts: 22
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Thanks for the tips guys.

Unfortunately my opponent dropped out of the league and I was given a replacement match which I won easily. I was really looking forward to playing against this high elf player because it was an unconvential yet tough list.

These tips are good regardless though against High Elves and I'll be sure to come back here when I face them eventually.


Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:12 am
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