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How to optimize a list with a large unit of executioners? 
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Warrior
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:09 pm
Posts: 63
Recently, I have been converting a COB and a unit of 34 executioners with ASF death hag BSB. Simultaneously, I have also been thinking about how to use them in what kind of army list. I have found a number of threads on executioners (discussing how they fare in comparison to other elite dark elves units, how to use them properly, etc.). What I have not been able to find, however, is a thread on how to build an optimal dark elves army list which includes a COB and a unit of 34 executioners with ASF death hag BSB.

Now, I know that executioners are probably not the best choice for an optimal list (witch elves or black guard in combination with COK + unkillable and stubborn dreadlord obviously spring to mind), but suppose you nevertheless had to write an army list containing (among others) containing a COB, a unit of 34 executioners, and ASF death hag BSB, how would you then proceed to fill out the rest of the army list so as to make it as optimal as possible? The only limitations to the army list are: 2400 points; no more than two of the same special units; and no more than one of the same rare units.

The reason I ask this is that I struggle to make the most of executioners in most games I play. The list I have recently been using is this:

- shadow level 4 with sacrificial dagger and talisman of preservation (general)
- cob
- asf death hag with rune of khaine and manbane (on the corner of the executioner unit)
- master on dark Pegasus with full armour, sword of might and pendant of khaeleth
- 2x5 harpies
- 31 spearmen with fc and standard of discipline
- 20 rxb with shields and fc
- 10 rxb with shield and musician
- 29 executioners with standard bearer and musician (in horde formation)
- 12 witch elves with standard bearer and banner of eternal flame
- 5 shades with ahw
- 1 war hydra

Some reasons why I think this list is not optimal are:
- Too few executioners to absorb casualties before engaging enemy units in cc
- Too few units in general
- Too few units to make sure my executioners get where they are needed
- Shadow magic making too little of an impact in the first 2 turns of the game
- perhaps too many points spent on characters (though they are all very useful I think)

So, please let me know what you think…


Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:02 am
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Beastmaster
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:54 pm
Posts: 312
Location: In the South Lands
Ilderoth wrote:
- Too few executioners to absorb casualties before engaging enemy units in cc
Definitely! 40 is a far better number. You only have 5 ablative wounds before you start to lose the benefits of horde.
Ilderoth wrote:
- Too few units in general
- Too few units to make sure my executioners get where they are needed
Nope. Your other combat unit of 12 witch elves is too small to be a threat. Your opponent will will remove it or reduce its combat effectives very quickly.
Ilderoth wrote:
- Shadow magic making too little of an impact in the first 2 turns of the game
Huh? Miasma reducing Movement to slow your opponent down and to outmanuevre him; and reducing Initiative to make Pit more effective. The Withering dropping Toughness to make low strength shooting more effective. Don't see it :)
Ilderoth wrote:
- perhaps too many points spent on characters (though they are all very useful I think)
Yup. Drop the Pegmaster. Also unless you are dead set on using the ASF hag, I would drop her too.

I would build the list as follows(sticking as close as possible to your list):
L4 Shadow sorc as above
CoB
Hag BsB as above
40 spears std muso, eternal flame
20 rxb shield std, muso
6 DR rxb, std, muso
39 exec, std, muso, discipline
30 WE std, muso, murder
6 shades 2nd weapon

If you're willing to drop the asf bsb, I would go with
L4 Shadow sorc as above + ironcurse
CoB BsB swiftness
45 spears std muso, eternal flame
20 rxb shield std, muso
10 rxb shield std, muso
40 exec, std, muso, discipline
40 WE std, muso, murder
Hydra
Which seems to my mind at least a much better build.

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Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:16 am
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Cold One Knight
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:19 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Ontario, Canada
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One other option you could consider would be to take corsairs (probaly 30 of them) as your second main combat unit. This way, you can give the ward save to the execs as they advance and the corsairs have their own protection against shooting. Also, corsairs compliment execs really well since they can thin the hordes that pose the threat of tying your execs up for most the game. If you are finding that your execs are tking to many wounds before combat, this is where shadow magic is extremely usefull, since you can lower their strengh and weaponskill to reduce their chances of dealing much damage back. Also, since you are running major combat blocks, having 2 units of 5 harpies to redirect potential flank charges would really help out your list.
Cheers,
-Ave


Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:56 pm
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Warrior
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:09 pm
Posts: 63
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Sorry for the late reply; it has been crazy at work :-(

@ Azimyth: Thanks for the reply. Interesting alternative lists. I agree with Aveleys that harpies are essential to any dark elves list. In addition, you are right that the shadow level 4 is good, but shadow magic lacks in the damage department (pit of shades is unreliable and I cannot afford to choose pendulum, since I need miasma, withering and mindrazor). That’s why I am thinking about a level 2 with tome of furion and metal or dark magic: metal for incredible buffs and great damage against well-armoured foes; and dark for the sheer amount of damage it can generate. The problem, however, is finding the points to squeeze a level 2 sorceress in the list. Thus far, I thought of this:

List 1: 2356 points.

- Shadow level 4 Supreme Sorceress, Sacrificial Dagger & Talisman of Preservation
- COB BSB Death Hag
- 2x5 Harpies
- 34 spearmen with shields and fc
- 20 rxb with shields and fc
- 10 rxb with shields and musician
- 40 Executioners with standard bearer, musician and Standard of Discipline/Banner of Swiftness
- 30 Witch Elves with standard bearer, musician and Banner of Eternal Flame
- 5 Shades with additional hand weapon
- 1 War Hydra

I really wouldn’t know how to free points for the level 2 sorceress in this list

Alternatively, I could take the following list with level 2: 2401 points
- Shadow level 4 Supreme Sorceress, Sacrificial Dagger & Talisman of Preservation
- COB BSB Death Hag
- metal/dark magic level 2 sorceress with tome of furion
- 2x5 Harpies
- 29 spearmen with shields and fc
- 30 spearmen with shields and fc
- 20 rxb with shields and fc
- 40 Executioners with standard bearer, musician and Standard of Discipline/Banner of Swiftness
- 14 Witch Elves with standard bearer, musician and Banner of Eternal Flame
- 5 Shades with additional hand weapon
- 1 War Hydra

What do you think?


Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:23 pm
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