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Played agaisnt the new Ogres!!! 
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:49 am
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Well mates, recently I had the good fortune of playing against the Ogres and there new book a few days ago at my game store in a 2500 point match up, and needless to say they where a very effective nasty army, especially with a lot of the stuff they are able to do. In this case, my opponent ran a bull horde, which pretty much consists of 15x Ogre Bulls w/ironfists, along with his BSB, Butcher, and Sluaghtermaster in a 6x3 formation, and needless to say this unit can dish out some serious hurt on the charge (6x S7 impact hits, 49x WS3, S4 attacks, then followed up by stomps, and thats not even including the characters in the unit :shock:). Besides this unit, he ran a Thundertusk, that Stonehead monster, and 2x units of 5x leadbelchers. After a bloody fight, I managed to pull off a minor victory in large thanks to my P.O.K. dreadlord on a Cold One holding up his bull horde for 3x turns while the rest of my army mopped up his other units, but it was a close one. This is what I have been able to put together at a first glance:

*DO NOT LET THEM CHARGE YOU IF YOU CAN AVOID IT! Granted this should be common since and they are only WS3, even a small unit of 6x Bulls w/FC & Ironfists will be getting at least 22x attacks, and thats not including there stomp and there impact hits, meaning even a small unit of these guys can seriously cause some hurt to or infantry units. Also since they get an extra S for there Bull Charge rule for every model ranked up behind the ones in the front, they can even cause some hurt to units like our Cold One Knights, so its best to get the charge off against them.

*Shadow magic and the Pit of Shades spell is a must against these guys, for it has the potenial to easily wipe out a unit of Ogres quite easily (and Thundertusks as I discoverd to my glee :D) , but Dark MAgic is also a god choice when playing aginst them. However, the Ogres have a very nasty banner which they can take, which is called the Mawseeker Banner. Pretty much everytime a magic spell is cast on the unit carrying this banner, they Orge player then rolls a D6, and if it rolls anything but a 1, the spell is immidietly passed on to another unit so its not a huge deal at a first glance. The big deal is that if there is no other Ogre unit nearby to take the spell for the unit carrying the banner, the spell is automaticly dispelled :shock:! Its a very nasty banner to come across and I wouldnt be surprised if it became a mainstay for every Ogre army in the future.

*Hydras, Executioners and Cold One Knights are really good units to run against Ogres since they come in w/a high strength, allowing use to do some damage to Ogres since we will be having to wound them on 5's due to most of our army having a base S3. They become an even better choice when backed up by a Cauldron of Blood.

*Shades and Crossbows are a decent unit to take, but if you do you have to take big units of them or else they wont do anything and be a waste of points but overall its up to you if you want to run them.

This is just my quick thoughts and advice for playing against the new Ogre Kingdoms but if anyone has any questions about them just give me the heads up.


Last edited by Rommel44 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:16 am
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Dark Rider
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For the rules of that banner and passing it on to another unit, is there a range? As in a unit within 24" or is just any other Ogre unit on the board? How many points is it as well? And also is it the Ogres player or the opponent who selects which unit gets the switch? That is a pretty awesome banner though yes.

Nice tips Rommel44. Looking forward to playing them myself soon. A good mate of mine ran them a while back but switched to us after getting beaten so often. I can imagine him wiping the dust off them now.

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Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:21 am
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Cold One Knight

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They do seem pretty nasty.

The banner, from what I remember, is a really short range. I believe it is 6".

Also, how do 15 bulls get 73 ws3 s4 attacks no counting stomps and impact hits? Do the rear ranks recieve their full attacks? Could've sworn that even on monstorous infantry they only still had 1 attack.

Best unit against them, is going to be harpies and dark riders, forcing them into failed charges. Also, a hydra might be able to deal with the unit of 6 by himself with his good armor save and high toughness.

I would recommend LoS and try to debuff their toughness allowing us to wound them easier. Of course for pit of shades also. Now, I don't think the banner affects pit of shades because you just place it anywhere within range. You do not "target" a unit with it, the floor just opens up to eat them. I think Ogres should appreciate that though, they can imagine that the Great Maw is devouring them! Of course, Mindrazor will also be really nice to cut through their high toughness!

You should be careful about deployment and deploy about 8-9 inches in. If you deploy at 12 inches, you will be charged turn 2.

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Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:35 pm
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monsterous infantry get up to 3 supporting attacks from the secound and in a horde the third ranks

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Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:40 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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Handsome Jack has the right of it, Monsterous infantry get 3x supporting attacks each, making the bull horde one of the nastiest Core horde units out there (Ironguts would be an even nastier horde, plus they can get a 50 point Magic Banner). And the Mawseeker Banner is I believe 55 points, so only way to take it is giving it to the Ogre BSB, meaning the Ogre playe has to chose to either give him defensive magic items or give him the banner. He's debating on if its worth it because I killed his BSB Brusier pretty easily in CC. And from what I remember correctly, the Mawseeker banner forces the opponent to target another Ogre unit that is within the range of the spell that was cast and if there isnt any other Ogre unit in range, the spell is pretty much dropped. It is a very nasty banner so if you happen to come across a Bull horde of some kind, expect the banner to be in the unit.

And note, the 73x WS attacks is a typo. A unit of 15x Bulls w/FC, Ironfists gets a total of 36x Supporting attacks from the 2nd and 3rd ranks, with 13x attacks from the front, making it a grand total of 49x WS3 S4 attacks from the bulls alone, and the 3x characters in the unit (BSB, Buther, and Slaughtermaster) would add I believe an extra 14x attacks (5x at S5, 9x at S4), giving the unit in total 6x attacks, which does not include the impact hits and the stomps. Either way you look at it, its still a lot of attacks coming from one unit.

And Ill check up on the Pit of Shades spell, but if I remember correctly, I believe the Mawseeker banner allows the Ogre unit to move ANY magic spell cast on them to another Ogre unit but Ill be sure to check it out mate.


Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:03 pm
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Rommel44 wrote:
And Ill check up on the Pit of Shades spell, but if I remember correctly, I believe the Mawseeker banner allows the Ogre unit to move ANY magic spell cast on them to another Ogre unit but Ill be sure to check it out mate.


Old argument, same thing will apply to black horror and the various vortex spells I believe. (no books with me)

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Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:22 pm
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The Runemaw Banner, which is the one that's being discussed, forces any spell targeting the BSB or the unit he's with to target another unit instead on a 2+. Regular limitations, such as range, still apply for the new target, and the player casting the spell can choose which unit he wants to target instead. If there are no other units eligible to be targeted, then the spell is lost.

So you don't lose the spell, you just won't be able to apply it to the unit protected by the banner. You'll likely have to select another target instead.

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Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:44 pm
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Is there any indication of how it applies to spells that either: (a) have no actual target, specifically magical vortexes; or (b) target all enemy units in range, such as the boosted version of soulblight?

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Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:45 am
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Slave on the Altar

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Rules state that the caster picks the new target for the spell of a 2+ roll.
If no other target is avaliable the spell is dropped but you still count as having cast it so it dosnt kill your magic phase and the rules specifically state that spells that dont specifically target the unit arnt effected by the banner at all. So I assume that to mean vortex spells, scatters, effect all spells.

Also its every spell including friendly. So it means the butchers cant buff this unit without using the larget area effect version of the spell.


Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:38 am
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Got it. It's all about Purple Sun baby!

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Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:58 am
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i played a 3k game against them last weekend.

- The one thing that really did put a serious hurt on me was his Mournfang cav!
- Hydra performed really really well
- There big monsters can be dealt with.
- The firebelly Breath attack surprised me a bit.

I really love all the new books so far but the ogres book is just great!


Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:25 pm
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Would a horde of monstrous infantry really be worth its points? They need to be six wide, so eighteen models for a 6x3 formation. Eighteen ogres is 540 points nekkid, is too wide to manoeuvre with any finesse, and only half of them will get to attack a standard 5-wide 20mm based unit.

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Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:28 am
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An MI horde is slightly bigger than a small base Infantry horde and slightly smaller than a big base Infantry horde. So not that unmanoeurable in comparison with other hordes.
40 Executioners with FC comes to about 500 pts so not much more expensive. Also 18 ogres have 54 wounds and only lose attacks for every 3 wounds taken. So in my view an ogre horde is freaking scary.

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Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:14 am
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I medium block of Chosen is the same price as is a big block of Chaos Warriors or even Swordmasters. Having one big point-denail block is pretty common army my area.

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Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:14 am
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The 18 man ogre bloc wth ironfists(shields) for a 5+/6+ armour save seems quite effective, their toughness along with their movement means most armies shooting wont damage them quite so much. A 20 man squad of DE with rxbows is on average only going to kill one Ogre a turn of shooting at short range.

Plus there arn't too many units that can take their full charge, 6 str6 impacts, aprox 54 str 4 attacks followed by 6 stomps. Against DE warriors thats aprox 5 wounds on impact, 15 wounds on attacks and 3 wounds on the stomp. Also I'd rarely make a solo charge if possible support it with MF cav or stonehorn

Interestingly my ogres play somewhat like Brets, pick a single point on the enemy army and try and charge/push through it with combo charges aiming for the overrun/pursuit into fresh.

My ogre list is running an 18 man ogre unit, 6 maneaters and 6 ironguts along with 4 MF cav( which performs exceptionally well against s3 t3 opponents) this combat core supported by a few belchers, Ironblaster(chariot cannon) and the stonehorn looks pretty decent so far. Only played empire, chaos and dwarves though.

Lore of shadow looks painful against my strats though, Pit of shades and the Penunbrial pendiulum would kill a fair few of any unit easily, could wipe the entire unit out if you combod it with melkoths miasma. Plus the debufs/buffs spells would render the unit a lot less effective so almost all the spells could be used well.


Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:17 pm
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Yes I also played the same deathstar unit as the one u describe. A dragon and hydra did quick work of them :) challenge challenge challange!!!

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Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:17 pm
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Slave on the Altar

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I only run a slaughtermaster alone or in usally somewhere else and a BSB in the IGs. So the dragon or manticore can fight the champion if they want, probally kill it then next round strike back with 27 attacks or so if charged in the front.

Its not impossible to beat of course but theres no real quick fix to deal with it aside from getting a nice pit or sun spell off on it.


Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:25 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Considering the growing amount of Ogres I'm seeing at my gamestore - I have some lists written up proxying Executioners with my Black Guard. I think when combined with the Fury of Khaine from the Cauldron - they could even tear through Maneaters in short order. Finally! a good use for Killing Blow!


Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:48 pm
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Assassin

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Ogres can't be killing blow'ed


Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:04 am
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I would also be cautious about switching to executioners; the always striking last could prove to be a unwise choice versus ogres. One of their bigger problems is their low initiative, allowing the likes of elves (and most other enemies too to be frank) to cut down on the number of attackings coming our way. Executioners, striking last or simultaneously to ironguts, would first be cut down and then be allowed to strike, switching roles with the ogres. Myself I would rather advocate keeping the black guards and using shadow hexes/cauldron +1 attack to combat ogres.


Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:21 am
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thenick18 wrote:
Ogres can't be killing blow'ed


Touche, sir. Well played...dammit...

With this in mind I would instead roll Witches with all those poison attacks.

Ranieth wrote:
I would also be cautious about switching to executioners; the always striking last could prove to be a unwise choice versus ogres. One of their bigger problems is their low initiative, allowing the likes of elves (and most other enemies too to be frank) to cut down on the number of attackings coming our way. Executioners, striking last or simultaneously to ironguts, would first be cut down and then be allowed to strike, switching roles with the ogres. Myself I would rather advocate keeping the black guards and using shadow hexes/cauldron +1 attack to combat ogres.


If I WERE to field Executioners (Thenick18 pointed out the fatal flaw in my foolish logic), I would have given them the ASF banner. This would allow them to strike at their profile I5.


Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:24 pm
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Slave on the Altar

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Poison is the bane of ogres, its a really noticeable hurt on them.


Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:08 pm
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Against Mournfang, COK w ASF is mediocre. I had 50/50 success w/ it, and felt like I needed more damage output since they ATE my Harpies (the jerks said they tasted like chicken!lol) but basically, those were who I could stop the charges with and get my guys into range in time with in a low magic game (meaning they killed my mage, i killed theirs)

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Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:14 pm
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One big difference I noticed between old and new Ogres book.

Maneaters turned from overpriced, okay, elite unit.
To amazingly deadly mothereffers.

My opponent had a unit of 6... with a brace of hanguns coupled with Sniper and Poison special rules. Something like this and no wizard in the world is safe.

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Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:49 am
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6 Maneaters with stubborn and scout, that's what scares me. Deployed on a flank they can roll up an entire battle line if not dealt with asap.

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Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:50 am
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