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new empire! 
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Highborn
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for those interested!
Empire being my only other army...this is going to cost me!
liking it, liking it a lot!
great hero models, impressive griffon, and even the demigryph kinghts are not bad!!
Im not sure about the wagons, but probably getting one anyways

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=41483.0

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Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:42 am
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dh'akor wrote:
for those interested!
Empire being my only other army...this is going to cost me!
liking it, liking it a lot!
great hero models, impressive griffon, and even the demigryph kinghts are not bad!!
Im not sure about the wagons, but probably getting one anyways

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=41483.0


The best comment was "Wow this really is Empire: Angry Birds Edition."

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Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:09 am
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Empire's also my only other army.
Arcane battle altars? :shock:
Elite monstrous cavalry?
Master engineer? Even better, eccentric, they say :D?

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Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:32 pm
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Nice. Looks awesome.

But woah, those GW guys can't keep it together. Leaking all over my internet.


Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:35 pm
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Calisson wrote:
Empire's also my only other army.
Arcane battle altars? :shock:
Elite monstrous cavalry?
Master engineer? Even better, eccentric, they say :D?


"Sehr gut..." ;) I know one druchii that will probably lay a claim to helping design them!!

Those models look fantastic. I am particularly digging the arcane altars and the gryphon. I think GW have been releasing some gorgeous stuff lately.

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Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:37 pm
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Highborn
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Griphon looks great, but with it i got same issue as I did with the release if the new black dragon... I allready own two!!
And what's the deal with using one kit for three models(altar) that's just lazy.
On the other hand you can build a arcana altar and use bits to build an new waraltar.
Really looking forward to new rules!!

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Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:58 pm
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I do not like the demigryph cavalry... it's just too weird for the empire.

But other than that, pretty models make me hopeful for our new range :)

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Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:39 pm
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Dalamar wrote:
I do not like the demigryph cavalry... it's just too weird for the empire.

But other than that, pretty models make me hopeful for our new range :)


I'm thinking Fenris wolf mounts (the new ones from 40K spacewolves) and the new knights for giant wolf cavalry from Middenheim.

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Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:25 pm
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With some of the beautiful models coming out, I can not wait for an update to the Dark Elves book! Oh the things we'll get! And how awesome will a new bigger badder Cauldron of Blood look!


Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:30 pm
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So I'm in a minority in thinking the old Griffon (not the Karl Franz one) was a much superior model. Im still in two minds about the added scale that the weight (or lack of) that Fine-cast has enabled.

IMHO I think the armoured chicken things look a little rediculous but will forgive all that in an instant if with the new release they change the barding for their standard cavalry which I think is a long time overdue. Insedentally, wierd base size for the choco's.

Someone used the word 'eccentric' to describe the Altar/Warwaggon things and I think that to be a perfect appraisal. The scope for conversion I think being their only possotive.

On the flip side, some of the individual models shown there are lovely.
Do you think it unlikely that they will recieve new State troop models? It seems the Captain model shown on that thread would suggest they have remaine unchanged or very similar.

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Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:25 pm
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Empire's book is available (and I've got my copy :D).

For the models, I find the fatty chickens way too big but otherwise fine job IMO.


Tactical changes.

Characters.
Generals & Captains have "hold the line" rule, which allows their unit to roll morale test on 3D6 and discard highest. Huge morale boost.

Grand Master knights may now take the runefang sword: autohit, no save. Combine it with the other trickshard wand, that's the most hitty model.

Priests still provide hatred to their unit.
Priest's prayers have lost the healing and are no longer RIP. They allow to reroll wounds, and/or provide 5++ in cc, and/or make attacks flaming.

A new witch hunter has been created. On foot only, little armour, pistols. He has KB against one single model (even with shooting), and rerolls wounds against magic users. MR(2).
As he is on foot, no worry, unless he gets the carpet.

Engineers can still reroll warmachine's die, but must select which one on beginning of the turn, i.e. they no longer attend 3 warmachines but a single one.

All heroes can now carry 50pts magic items, including engineers.

The Griffon is quite similar to our Manticores.

Named characters seem well balanced and well costed.
A new named character is an antimonster bowman. 30", S3, wounds monsters on 4+ for 1D3 wounds. Not that scary.


Infantry.
Same as before but more expensive, especially swordsmen & swordsmasters.
Also, detachments benefit from Ld and all special rules of parent unit (and count for core/special as their parent unit).
With detachments of core troops counting now as core, expect more detachments, despite the detachment rules more defensive than previously (no longer auto-side charge).
All troops can take full command at 10+10+10pts, including shooters, except flaggies (only champ).
Flagellants are now special but no longer capped. They cost more. In melee, they auto sacrifice randomly. Overall, most gamers won't take them at all. However, it is not impossible to see a huge unit of flaggies.

Bowmen have a skirmisher variant (special).


Cavalry.
Knights still core, remotely less expensive. One unit can get S4.

There are special knights, S4 and stubborn.

Also, there are new knights riding semi-chickens, which are monstrous mounts, and they are deadly. However, they are rather expensive.
Expect to see them often.

The two shooting light cavalry units have not changed.


Warmachines & chariots.
From an opponent's point of view, the most important for DE is that mortars have been nerfed a lot: only S2, and 33% increase in cost.
All other warmachines have been nerfed or increased in cost but not that badly.
Canons are the same at 20% more pts. Expect to see as many as before.
Rockets are crappier (small template).
Only helstorm have improved a little bit and, with the help of a nearby engineer, now are likely to make a 24" bubble no man's land. Expect to see them often.

STank have evolved quite a lot. They are slightly less expensive.
They rule allow now to be efficient till the last remaining wound, with a clever steal generation rule.
They have random move, i.e. can charge 360° but at total random distance (1 steam point = 1D6"). They hit like tons of brick.
You need to hit the engineer in melee. They are chariots, so they don't autofail magic tests.
Their turret gets variable S breath weapon.
The good point is that they are now T6 and S6.
Expect double STank to be the norm.

In addition to the War Altar, not changed much, they are two new sorcerer altar, one for Light and one for Heavens - but taking a sorcerer with them is not mandatory.
All three altars are T5 5W chariots. Light chariot gets +1DD, Heavens chariot gets +1PD.
All three have one single spell (WA: bane, Light Lore; Light chariot: 36" MM; Heavens chariot: small template random direct damage).
All three altars provide somee benefits to all troops at 6", and this is probably what needs to be watched (WA: hatred and prayer's effects; Light: 6++; Heavens: +1 to hit in cc).


Army synergy.
The superiority in warmachine is gone, except Helstorm battery & STank.
Hordes are slightly more expensive than before.

Therefore, the Empire army now relies much more on a good synergy between units, rather than on individual performance of some units.
The altar/magic chariots's influence at 6" is a good example.

Altogether, because of these buffs in cascade, expect Empire armies to look like a dwarven castling, except it's moving.

The tactics against them will be like before: kill first the buffing models:
General, BSB, sorcerers and priests, war altar, magic chariots.
The units themselves are not scary.

Empire players will struggle in tournaments next year. WAACky players will not play that army.


What to expect in our future Army Book?
The norm is obviously to have few magic items, some older magic items being provided to named characters.
More named characters, rather well balanced.
Infantry costs more. Cavalry remains as previously.
All commands are 10pts each.
More monsters & large chariots.
To be competitive, you cannot play fluffy, there are must-haves.


Some quotes from Warhammer-Empire:
rothgar13 wrote:
Let's go down the list of options available:

Core:
Archers - Cheap Skirmishing dummy drops, and can serve as Wizard bunkers in a pinch.
Free Company - Rather lackluster. Anything these guys can do, Halberds usually do better.
Halberdiers - What I consider to be Empire's bread-and-butter offensive unit. Bring lots of these guys.
Inner Circle Knights - Arguably the best fighting unit in the Core section. S4 base makes them formidable.
Knights - I'm looking at these as flanking units, and M7, Great Weapons, and a 2+ save makes them rock-solid at that role.
Spearmen - Good if you're looking for lots of cheap bodies, but they won't do much of anything for you otherwise.
Swordsmen - At a premium compared to previous iterations, but still the best Core anvil in the list.

Special:
Demigryph Knights - Small units of these make for quality hammers.
Flagellants - Could be decent as a flanker/roadblock in an MMU army... and that's about it.
Great Cannons - Never leave home without these.
Greatswords - I think this is a "go big or go home" unit - either you bring 30+ of them and feature them in your army, or you leave 'em on the shelf.
Huntsmen - Decent scouting unit. Could be useful in some way... just haven't thought of how yet.
Mortars - The template is large, but the Strength is just too weak.
Outriders - Decent firepower and solid mobility, though they can't employ both at the same time.
Pistoliers - Too expensive for what they do if you ask me.
Reiksguard Knights - I think these are fantastic. Stubborn with a 1+ save is always useful.

Rare:
Celestial Hurricanum - Bonuses to hit and extra power dice? Where do I sign up?
Helblaster Volley Gun - Mows down elites and heavy cav, and pretty solid at softening medium blocks as well.
Helstorm Rocket Battery - Too much of a gambler's machine for my taste, even for artillery standards.
Luminark of Hysh - Decent defensively, though I feel it's a bit out-classed by its Celestial counterpart.
Steam Tank - Still a solid jammer/flanker, and its having a real cannon on top is nice.

Heroes:
Battle Wizard - Arcane Item caddies and maybe provide a good signature spell.
Captain - He's the BSB, so you're bringing at least one. Hold the Line! is a nice bonus.
Master Engineer - I like him most manning Helblasters, though I guess Pigeon Bombers are decent.
Warrior Priest - Love these guys. My goal would be to fit one into every fighting unit for the Hatred, and the prayers aren't chopped liver.
Witch Hunter - Still haven't found a kit for these I like.

Lords:
Arch Lector - Decent if you put him on the War Altar, otherwise... meh.
General - Cheapest access to Ld9 for us, and he's fairly easy to protect between the gear allowance and his good access to mundane gear.
Grand Master - The fightiest guy we have on the list, I like him with a Runefang.
Wizard Lord - Gotta have the L4.
Warlord wrote:
So what does the new, classic 8th edition Empire army look like?
So lets have a quick list of unit choices and their effectiveness (ignoring Special Characters):

LORDS
General - cheap L9 in units, or great on a Griffon
Arch Lector - with CoC can double as both General & WP in a unit, WA gives good AOE buffs (however many WPs may be cheaper)
Grand Master - only really any good with Runefang & OTS
Wizard Lord - cheap, must take even just as magic defense

HEROS
Captain - always take one as BSB, useful in units, useful on pegasus
Warrior Priest - cheap buff character, useful in all types of units, spam has potential
Wizard - cheap, must take, good offense / defense
Engineer - only useful on a helblaster, arguably an expensive combo
Witch Hunter - not very useful, perhaps useful in a second rank with MoH

CORE
Halberdiers - Still great as a Horde and detachment
Swordsmen - expensive, WS4 is only benefit, halberds are probably more useful
Spearmen - cheap bus unit
Free Company - overpriced, anything they can do, halberds do better

Crossbowmen - too expensive, outriders are a better choice for the points
Handgunners - too expensive, outriders are a better choice for the points
Archers - cheap screening unit, good redirectors,

Knights - cheap flanker
IC Knights - cheap strong flanker, consider with GW

SPECIAL
Greatswords - bunker unit for characters, bestows stubborn on detachments, expensive but useful as a horde, small autonomous flank unit
Flagellants - benefits most from war altar buffs, people liked a horde of them before will still like them

Reiksguard - useful flanker / tarpit
Demigryph Knights - strongest unit for cost, should see at least 1 unit of these in any competitive list

Pistoliers - expensive and situational
Outriders - besides from archers, only viable small arms fire, decent on a flank or behind lines
Huntsmen - cheap, good disrupters

Cannon - despite point increase, still must take
Mortar - too expensive, not strong enough, situation - must take against skaven or elves only.

RARE
Helblaster - reliable, good for killing knights and monster units
Helstorm - not very reliable, situational, decent against skaven

Luminark - useful for a defensive army
Hurricanum - useful for an offensive army

Steam Tank - reliable, all rounder - can shoot, charge and tarpit.


Now lets consider how they all fit together.

THE 8TH EDITION RECIPE
    I see most people still taking the horde of halberds (with a general or AL with CoC), together with a bus of spearmen.
    I expect people will take the demigryph knights as their strong flank support, perhaps backed up by a steam tank.
    A War Altar, Luminark or Hurricanum (or 2 of the 3) will make an appearance in the middle / behind the line of halberds and spears.
    A cannon and a helblaster will form our artillery support.
    BSB will be with the infantry, either the spearmen or a bunker unit of greatswords.
    Sprinkle with wizards and warrior priests, and whatever other units you want to flavour, and voila, the mainstay Empire army of 8th edition.
Obviously people will make adjustments to their own preference, but surely this is pretty much what an optomised 8th edition Empire army would roughly look like.

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Last edited by Calisson on Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:41 pm
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Good review, Calisson.

Cheers! :D

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Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:53 pm
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Thanks Calisson

I was quite disappointed myself (i have the book too). i had decided to try out either VCs or Empire for my next army, and i must say that empire feels a bit dull. they arent bad (they seem very balanced, possibly a bit weaker than the other new teams), but it just felt like they had nothing i was excited about. It will have to be VC for me i guess :)

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Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:49 am
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Lots of discussions going on warhammer-empire.com
Most gamers are pissed off by the nerf of their favorite unit(s).
On a second read, many gamers acknowledge that the new book is rather balanced - but still are pissed off for flaggies.
The new units (demichicks and wizwagons) have great potential and will be seen.

What emerges is the requirement to make units work together in the best synergy, rather than relying on a one-trick pony. Deployment and maneuvre will be vital. Melee for the win.

I expect excellent gamers to be powerful with Empire.
On the other hand, mediocre players like me, or those like me who want to stick to their previous gamestyle and not evolve, will struggle with that new book.
Empire no longer for beginners.

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Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:17 am
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It sounds like this is another excellent release by GW.

Despite my initial scepticism, I've actually been fairly impressed by all of their new 8th ed book releases so far. Each new book has been strong, but not overpowered: good in the hands of a skilled general, but not click and shoot or no brainer. Ogres, for example, are very good - but not anything like the books of the latter half of 7th ed (including our current book). Same applies for TK, O&G and VC. It sounds like the new Empire book is the same way. I'm excited to see WoC when it comes out on that basis, as well as our own new book.

It seems scarcely believable, given their track record, but GW for once seems to be making a game that is fun to play, rather than purely good for sales. Now I'm off to go ice skating on one of Hell's lakes and to watch the pigs flying squadron do some loop-the-loops...

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Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:57 am
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I would not be surprised to see in our future army book that the CoB's prayers will become bound magic and that it's influence extend to Khainite units at 6".

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Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:47 am
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hahah then I don't have to buy the CoB model anylonger :))
cause the current isn't a beauty either.


would be sad, the fluff around it was very Dark elven.


Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:13 pm
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