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Horrible cheese to hide wizards 
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Malekith's Best Friend
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I saw a thread about this in another forum, and it strikes me as one of those horrible mistakes, but hopefully there is a rule to prevent it, and hopefully you guys can help me find it.

on BRB page 97 under "position in the unit" it says:
"when a character JOINS a unit, they are placed in the front rank..."

Now, English isnt my first language, but to me it seems that this literally means that this rule only applies at the moment when the character is actually joining the unit, and then stops applying. I agree it could possibly be interpreted as if it should hold for the entire time a character stays with the unit, but to me it is a gray zone.

The problem with this would be the following: you have a unit to bunker a mage. you have command with the unit. now you deploy it 3 wide (and however deep it needs to be) with the mage in rank 2. If the rule above only applies at the moment of joining, you can now reform the unit to the desired width, but leave the mage in the 2nd rank.

I have never seen this being argued before but it feels like this is an exploit that should have been discovered long ago, and hopefully been debunked.

Naturally i will house rule this thing if needed, but still it is interesting to discuss. what do you guys say? can you hide mages this way? why/why not?

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Sat May 12, 2012 7:53 pm
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Noble

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:37 pm
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People have been doing this since the edition first came out- deploy a unit 3 wide with the mage in the second rank, then swift-reform the unit to 5 wide and leave the mage in the second rank. Fortunately though, it has been around for long enough that it has appeared in the FAQ:

Q: Must a character be moved to the front rank of a unit as soon as a space becomes available? (p100)
A: Yes.

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Sat May 12, 2012 8:41 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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ah. great. was worried there for a while :D

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Sun May 13, 2012 8:16 pm
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Executioner
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still if he stays 3 wide with full command he stays in the 2nd rank and can use los from the model in front of him. The worst abuse of this Ive seen is high elves putting a bsb and highborn in a unit of pheonix gaurd giving them the banner making the unit immune to spells and charging them into a unit and casting purple sun from the 2nd rank

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Wed May 16, 2012 2:43 pm
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Generalissimo
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That's true, although you lose rank bonuses, including no additions to combat resolution, no steadfast and no ability to break an enemy's steadfast (ranks must be at least five wide: p54 BRB). That's quite a hit just to get the sorceress into the second row.

A far better way to do it, if you must, is to put two other characters in the unit (or a single extra character on a dark pegasus). That way you retain rank bonuses but can still cast from the second rank.

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Wed May 16, 2012 3:29 pm
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The Guiding Eye
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damn, I came here intending to find a nice bit've wensleydale...

Nasty tricks boys - particularly the purple sun high elf one: I think I'd slap my opponent if they tried to pull that one on me.

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Wed May 16, 2012 7:08 pm
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Executioner
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the bsb and highborn were the 2 characters making them 5 wide with the bsb holding the banner making them immune to magic.

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handsome jack


Wed May 23, 2012 2:51 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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There is a way to over come this.

You need a unit with (pick one);
a. assassin
b. hero (best with asf weapon)
c. champion with ASF weapon

when in cc, kill the champion (but DO NOT challenge) with asf sword or higher initiative hero. Once the champion is dead, the mage has to go in front rank. and since RnF models have lower Init, they will strike after the mage moved to the front rank, making him a leagal target. If you happen to have the unit with the KB blessing form the CoB, the better it is for you ;)

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Tue May 29, 2012 6:24 pm
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Okies this is actually used quite a lot particularly with Bretonnian Knights in Lance formation and with Ogres.

In the case of Bretonnians their Lance formation is 3 wide so with Full command and a Paladin or Lord in the unit a Damsel will then sit nicely on the second rank (centre). Also the Bretonnians can displace a command model to the second rank when the Lord or Paladin is placed in the unit.

Ogres being Monstrous Infantry also rank up 3 wide. So a Tactic to protect their BSB is to have full command with the unit and when deployed 3 wide the BSB can sit safely in the second rank. If the unit champion gets killed then the BSB will have to push through to the front rank.

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Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:12 am
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Yes, but in both of those instances, it's ok, because they're valid formations for their army. Irritating, but they're not going out of their way to protect their characters.

In our case, there's no benefits to three wide other than to put the wizard in the second rank. It's almost as bad as a congo line of BG with the champ having 1+ AS to hold up a horde with their Stubborn check.

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Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

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*Magical properties possibly imbued


Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:53 am
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Executioner

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I'm afraid I can offer no valuable input on this as I mainly am interested in the lore of Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k. I was just attracted because cheese was in the title. I like cheese. Cheese is (usually) good. XD


Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:42 pm
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Corsair
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@ Norelle
:lol: I suggest you started a new thread in the "History" forum about how to hide wizards in horrible cheese. :p
With fluff and smell.

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Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:37 pm
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Executioner
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Maybe the horrible smell of cheese can indeed mask the presence of a mage :O

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Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:43 am
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Beastmaster
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Hmm just re read the original post and yes it seems gamey to me.

On a par with conga lines.

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Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:32 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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check the second post. we worked this one out months ago :oops:

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Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:48 pm
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