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Why using 2 sorceresses?! 
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:18 pm
Posts: 10
Im wondering why ladies and gents.

Because the power/dispel pool is limited anyway, I can't justify of using 2 or more sorceresses.

I see some pros:

Multiple lores.
2 times power of darkness.
two arcane items

But:

It costs more points
Ill have to swap her for an other hero.
the lvl 2 has difficulty casting higher level spells.
You have two focus points to remember very well.
The second sorceress wont contribute to the power pool anyway.


If you do use more then one sorceress, wich lore, would shadow be good for a lvl 2 sorceress?


Mon May 21, 2012 5:32 pm
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Corsair
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Other pro:
- Two spots from which casting spells.
- Redundancy: if you lose one, you still have a use for PD.
- If same Lore, guarantees to get THE spell you want so much.

Shadow Lore is awesome for a Lvl1 (take the default spell).

Also, for Storm of Magic, you want more than 2 sorceresses! ;)

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Mon May 21, 2012 5:44 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
Posts: 987
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With Power of Darkness and the Sacrifical Dagger, it is quite possible for two level 4's to cast all their spells, especially if one of them uses a low-casting-cost lore like Dark Magic, or Death Magic and it's ability to generate extra power dice. Going Death, Dark, and Shadow, it's quite possible for THREE sorceresses to get all their spells off.

But it would be expensive...


Mon May 21, 2012 6:09 pm
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Cold One Knight
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:54 pm
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It also doubles your odds of channelling PD or DD.

I've done pretty well with a pair of Level 2s this edition. I don't really rely on casting the big spells so much as getting off a good number of the little spells each round. Furthermore, when you mix lores, you can get a broad range of magical options that you can tailor to meet specific battlefield situations.

For instance, if your Dark sorceress is out of range with most of her stuff, your Fire sorceress isn't. Furthermore, when using Shadow, you can use the Lore Attribute to swap your sorceresses' places when tactically necessary, giving you a lot more flexibility.

Also, and finally, a pair of level 2s is about the same cost as a single Lv 4, and sometimes even less. The Lv 4 gets power, the Lv 2s get flexibility. It's a decent trade-off in some lists.

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Mon May 21, 2012 6:12 pm
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Generalissimo
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
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Location: Baltimore
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I always take a level 1 whenever I can.

Why? Well, a dispel scroll is pretty much a must, and my level 4 never goes to battle without her trust dagger of stabbyness.

I also find that the level 1 is handy for ensuring I definitely get the spells I want in the game: a level 4 by herself has some risk of not getting me all of the spells I want - but with a level 1 on side that risk becomes significantly lower...

Finally, if my level 4 does for some reason get splatted, then I can continue to cast spells in the magic phase and get a useful +1 to the dice rolls to boot.

1 extra channeller is helpful too.

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Mon May 21, 2012 11:42 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 8:12 am
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Location: Umeå, Sweden
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It's actually quite common to use two Lvl 4 mages in tournament lists (and with great success!). I recommend trying it if you haven't already!

The reason why this heavy points investment can pay off is because each Lvl 4 mage (hopefully) has at least one spell that the opponent cannot afford to let through. Against a single mage it's normally feasible to save all or most dispel dice for the big, threatening spell and just let the others through, but if you're up against two or more really threatening spells you normally have to face one or the other.

For example, my current 2400 list features a Lvl 4 Metal mage with Dagger and a Lvl 4 Death mage. If I roll 8 PD (quite average with Channeling), I will be able to use 4 dice casting Purple Sun and 4 + 1 from dagger casting either Searing Doom (Metal Sig) or Final Transmutation. For example; when up against Ogres, should he stop Purple Sun on his big Gutstar or should he stop Searing Doom on his Mournfang Cav? What if he let the first one go and I roll Irresistible Force the other?

Why bother with a second Lvl 4 instead of a Lvl 2 mage? Because the extra 125 points grants you: 2 more spells, +2 to Cast, +2 to Dispel and +1 Wound. In the case of Dark Elves, it also frees up very important points in the Heroes section, allowing you to field three pegasus riders or two pegasus riders and a CoB along side your dual mages.

With two Lvl 4 mages you can also take a lot more chances when dispelling and casting spells with low casting values. If your opponent makes a single-dice casting (say on 7) you would normally be forced to use 2 dispel dice, because if you roll 1 or 2 on a single dice you will lose your +4 dispel bonus for the remainder of the magic phase. With two Lvl 4 mages, you can afford to fail once each magic phase and still keep your bonus.


Tue May 22, 2012 5:49 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:18 pm
Posts: 10
Post 
Red... wrote:
I always take a level 1 whenever I can.

Why? Well, a dispel scroll is pretty much a must, and my level 4 never goes to battle without her trust dagger of stabbyness.

I also find that the level 1 is handy for ensuring I definitely get the spells I want in the game: a level 4 by herself has some risk of not getting me all of the spells I want - but with a level 1 on side that risk becomes significantly lower...

Finally, if my level 4 does for some reason get splatted, then I can continue to cast spells in the magic phase and get a useful +1 to the dice rolls to boot.

1 extra channeller is helpful too.


Her trusty dagger,. yeah I like the item, but I almost never use cheap spearmen. they just wont do anything then dying.

So my corsairs, BG and witches are too expensive to dagger. I rather like my Focus familiar on my metal pegasus sorceress.

., I see now that its not uncommon to field 2 sorceresses, I will build a list with this in mind. Thank you.

@ Semitor.
How does your 2400 list looks like? thanks

Thanks all mates :)


Tue May 22, 2012 10:34 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 8:12 am
Posts: 1294
Location: Umeå, Sweden
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Current list is actually 2500 pts:

Lvl 4 Metal, Dagger, Lifetaker OR MR 2
Lvl 4 Death, Scroll
Cauldron BSB
Pegasus, Pendant, Dragon helm, GW
28 Spears, Shields, FC, Standard of Dicipline
10 Spears
16 Crossbows, Mus, Champ
16 Crossbows, Mus, Champ
35 Executioners, Mus
5 Harpies
Chariot
Chariot
Hydra

Can drop a Chariot to make it fit into 2400 pts. Lifetaker or MR 2 talisman changes daily... :P


Tue May 22, 2012 2:27 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
Posts: 987
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Use a bunker of 15-20 spearmen, no shields, chump to take challenges, and musician for the reforms. 100-135 points, power dice to burn, and little to fear from 'not enough power!'


Tue May 22, 2012 6:21 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:15 pm
Posts: 30
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I have a question on this, i have a 2K army with a lvl 4 SS and a lvl 2. The lvl 4 has Sacrificial Dagger and PoK, and the lvl 2 has the Tome of furion. I am going to give one of them a Dark Pegasus and Lore of Death and the other Lore of Shadows and sit in a regiment of RxB.

I was planning on giving the lvl 2 Death, but would it be worth swapping Arcane items and giving the lvl 4 the free reign of the battlefield?

I haven't really used these lores, so i'm not sure how it will go (normally use Dark Lore). What do most people go with in this sort of situation?


Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:32 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: California
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It depends on what lores and what levels you take as one sorceress will hog most of the dice, even if you get 12 dice a turn every turn. It just depends on what you are shooting for.

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Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:42 pm
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Executioner
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
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Depends on whether you're focusing more on magic or combat. If I'm taking a combat lord, I'll only take a Lv3 with me.

If I don't have a combat lord, I'll take a Lv4 and a Lv1 with me. Lv1 for a signature spell, Lv4 self explainatory.

There is no right or wrong on taking one or two Sorceress. There is only "enough". If you need two for lore combos, then you take two. If you just need magic defense, you take one.

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Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:34 pm
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Highborn

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:06 pm
Posts: 603
Location: the Netherlands
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@Romark,

Looking at the casting values of the spells I'd let my level 4 sorceress keep the Sacrificial Dagger and let her use Lore of Shadows. It is one of the hardest lores to cast.

Death has some spells that are easy to cast, especially at short range. But most of these spells are a direct threat, so forcing your opponent to use dispell dice. And leaving your lore of shadow open for real battle breakers.


Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:31 am
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:15 pm
Posts: 30
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@Cold73 Thanks, i had a quick look over them as well (normally just use Dark and/or Metal) and i agree with you. Also think the lvl 4 can do more 'damage' with more Shadows spells.

Thanks.


Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:21 am
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Warrior
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Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:08 am
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Location: Plymouth
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Shadow has the better range of spells so having four of them is advantageous. However the sig spell for death is based on unmodified Ld, which with a lvl2 is only 8, you need to be really lucky to kill anything really useful. Good for picking on champions and unridden monsters. Look at how many of the non sig death spells you would use and make sure you are happy with them. Although I do like death sorceresses on peg/dragon, if I do use one is is normally lvl 4, haven't tried lvl 2.

Regards and best wishes
Luke


Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:07 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:15 pm
Posts: 30
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I'm just going to pray for Death 4 (can't remember the name) where you lower Ld, good combo (as I'm sure everyone knows). But it's a first play through, if it doesn't work too well I'll switch it around. Play for fun and all that (though, I really want to batter my mate that uses Lizardmen!).


Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:36 pm
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Warrior

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Posts: 72
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Quote:
Her trusty dagger,. yeah I like the item, but I almost never use cheap spearmen. they just wont do anything then dying.


i beg to differ on this one, i brought a unit of 19 spearmen with standard of disipline and a lvl 4 with shadow against my opponents high elves. this unit was pretty much all that was left and my opponent still had a unit of 35 spearmen, his unkillible prince and a unit of 20 archers with teclis in it. i charged the flank of the spearmen, and cast mind razor, they ran. the got the prince and followed up by getting teclis's unit too. cast mind razor a total of 2 times. the beauty of it the unit is they never expect them to do much so they are ignored until its too late :P

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Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:54 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
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Depending on getting Mindrazor off is not a winning strategy. Depending on getting it off TWICE is a Vegas game, with Vegas odds.


Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:20 pm
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Warrior

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:06 pm
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i wasnt dependant on getting it twice, but when i comes down to it, im just saying the unit CAN be effective when it comes down to it. its not useless... and not really vagas odds, when you throw all your dice and sac dagger each time. such u my miscast but hey, a unit of 20 is like 120 points and my sorceress has the pendant so isnt really effected

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Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:07 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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With sacrifical dagger and the choice of being able to roll all your dice on one spell, you will either get too much dice for your opponent to dispel (if he don't have a dispel scroll), or there's a big chance of getting irresistable force. Either way, in my last tournament, I got the mindrazor off every time I went for it, which was 4 times, 3 times in one battle (Met a knight empire army).

I'd say that we have a quite reliable way of getting it through, the main concern is what damage our SS will take.

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Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:16 am
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