Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:29 am



Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Hydra and Khari 
Author Message
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:55 pm
Posts: 647
Location: Sweden
The more I read the rules and compare it to other armies that I will personally face the more I start to ponder about these two monsters.

How do we keep them from running off the board the moment they fail a panic or break test?

Bloodwrack Shrine babysitters?
High Beastmaster general babysitters?

thoughts ideas?

_________________

My Hobby Thread

Stats since I started playing again in 2013
W/L/D
Total: 16/21/1
vs. Demons: 0/2/0
vs. Dwarfs: 1/2/0
vs. Empire: 2/4/0
vs. High Elves: 0/4/0
vs. Lizardmen: 3/0/0
vs. Orcs & Goblins: 3/0/1
vs. Ogres: 1/0/0
vs. Skaven: 4/4/0
vs. Tomb Kings: 0/1/0
vs. Warriors of Chaos: 0/3/0
vs. Wood Elves: 2/1/0


Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:40 pm
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:53 am
Posts: 506
Location: Germany
Btw, is there any... "hard" reason to pick a Beastmaster Manticore Rider over a Dreadlord on Manticore? It's +W3 Monster attacks vs +1 Lord attack (which might be a wash, better/worse, depending on gear etc.) and +1 Ld on the Dreadlord... and with the Ld advantage this is basically back on topic: I don't see anything but a general in 12/18". The BSB itself is not enough, Ld6 with Rerolls will not be enough (and you might have to put the BSB in range so they gather more easily instead of forward).

Bloodwrack might alleviate the problem somewhat, but Ld7 is still meh-ish. Together with BSB maybe. But still...


Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:50 pm
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:55 pm
Posts: 647
Location: Sweden
Trax wrote:
Btw, is there any... "hard" reason to pick a Beastmaster Manticore Rider over a Dreadlord on Manticore? It's +W3 Monster attacks vs +1 Lord attack (which might be a wash, better/worse, depending on gear etc.) and +1 Ld on the Dreadlord...


True enough, not really Dreadlord really is a better choice overall. Even moreso on a large target.

_________________

My Hobby Thread

Stats since I started playing again in 2013
W/L/D
Total: 16/21/1
vs. Demons: 0/2/0
vs. Dwarfs: 1/2/0
vs. Empire: 2/4/0
vs. High Elves: 0/4/0
vs. Lizardmen: 3/0/0
vs. Orcs & Goblins: 3/0/1
vs. Ogres: 1/0/0
vs. Skaven: 4/4/0
vs. Tomb Kings: 0/1/0
vs. Warriors of Chaos: 0/3/0
vs. Wood Elves: 2/1/0


Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:54 pm
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:53 am
Posts: 506
Location: Germany
That's a pity, really. I was hoping for a buff that made the Beastmaster on Manticore really superior. Quite sad that both our new characters seem to be duds. Well, maybe someone will make the Beastmaster on Scourgerunner work.


Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:02 pm
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:55 pm
Posts: 647
Location: Sweden
Trax wrote:
That's a pity, really. I was hoping for a buff that made the Beastmaster on Manticore really superior. Quite sad that both our new characters seem to be duds. Well, maybe someone will make the Beastmaster on Scourgerunner work.


Now if beastmasters had an insipiring presence that monsters and harpies could use regardless if they were the general or not . . . .

That -would- be a good ability

Sadly they do not

_________________

My Hobby Thread

Stats since I started playing again in 2013
W/L/D
Total: 16/21/1
vs. Demons: 0/2/0
vs. Dwarfs: 1/2/0
vs. Empire: 2/4/0
vs. High Elves: 0/4/0
vs. Lizardmen: 3/0/0
vs. Orcs & Goblins: 3/0/1
vs. Ogres: 1/0/0
vs. Skaven: 4/4/0
vs. Tomb Kings: 0/1/0
vs. Warriors of Chaos: 0/3/0
vs. Wood Elves: 2/1/0


Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:06 pm
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:53 am
Posts: 506
Location: Germany
Something like that would have been something I was looking forward to. Or anything else besides a buff that's almost negated by the nerfed profile, really. With 3" range he will rarely buff a monster that is not his own.


Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:09 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:58 pm
Posts: 169
what i am really thinking at is, since we have all these new cool units with these crazy stats, do we really need to spend points in a monster? i am thinking of going MSU with more elite troops and no monsters.


Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:50 pm
Profile
Shade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:43 am
Posts: 101
I'll probably use them as I'm using my hydra now under the old book. near my lines as a deterrent while advancing. I've actually had people not charge my spearmen or repeaters with a unit for fear of the hydra in the flank.


Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:52 pm
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:53 am
Posts: 506
Location: Germany
I think no monsters is perfectly viable, it's just that monster mash seems to be perfectly viable as well. And that's what might be so great about this book.


Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:53 pm
Profile
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Posts: 9675
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Simple, keep your monsters 6" away from potential sources of panic. If they never take a Ld test, they will never fail it.

I'm hoping I can squeeze in a High Beastmaster alongside Supreme Sorceress but will have to wait and see.

Monster mash has the issue of being bad for scenarios (no fortitude to speak of and no models to claim buildings) so full monster mash is unlikely to happen. But, I think I will be fielding 3-4 monsters and 1-2 blocks of infantry supported by standard chaff.

_________________
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:35 pm
Profile
Beastmaster

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:14 am
Posts: 347
I think both monsters are very playable!

Although the hydra got weaker, you still get to field an 8 attack, healing S5/T5 monsters.. that's pretty nice and fits well into msu! I don't see the problem of staying within 12' of bsb and General..

The K****** is even better and I think mandatory in many setups, as it is the only thing apart from the Execs that offers very high Strength to kill those high AS foes.


I don't know how to make the Beastmaster work, yet. Somehow I'd like to shoot that Reaper with BS7!
On a manticore he'd really have to pick his fights wisely.. He'd need the cloak of twighligt and maybe some lore of life to heal the manticore.


Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:55 pm
Profile
Lord of the Dragon Caves
Lord of the Dragon Caves
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:34 pm
Posts: 8372
Location: The Dragon Caves of the Underway (Indianapolis IN)
I like the new K monster not just because of high strength but initiative 4. Having the hydra's attacks depend on number of remaining wounds sucks for an I2 monster. My hydras may be sitting a lot from now on.

_________________
Truly These are the End Times ...


Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:40 am
Profile WWW
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:56 am
Posts: 2261
Location: Flying my manticore 'Bloodmaw', looking for prey.
Dyvim tvar wrote:
I like the new K monster not just because of high strength but initiative 4. Having the hydra's attacks depend on number of remaining wounds sucks for an I2 monster. My hydras may be sitting a lot from now on.
Heh, more reliable breath weapon and less reliable attacks. Hydras are more of a choice for avoidance lists now IMO. Lurking and waiting for the warlocks or a sorceress to hex enemy toughness before unleashing their breath weapon and then charging the remnants from the flank. They aren't front-on attackers any more as far as I can see.

Avoidance lists and combined arms forces got so many toys in the new book though. I think there's enough stuff to make them work quite well.

_________________
ImageImage
http://urialsulla.mybrute.com


Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:29 am
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:19 am
Posts: 2089
Anyone notice the Karibdyss isn't a 'sea monster'?

_________________
Proud supporter of druchii.net
phierlihy@druchii.net


Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:43 am
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:53 am
Posts: 506
Location: Germany
Phierlihy wrote:
Anyone notice the Karibdyss isn't a 'sea monster'?

Yeah, why would it be one. It would be totally useless if it was.


Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:06 am
Profile
Corsair

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 89
Location: netherlands
din't the hydra could get some sort of shot attack ? you could use it like fallenturtle says, babysitting other units and letting it shoot. and if it still has terror it could help enforsing ld tests after units are hit with dispair


Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:28 am
Profile
Warrior

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:36 pm
Posts: 51
Falstaff wrote:
I don't know how to make the Beastmaster work, yet. Somehow I'd like to shoot that Reaper with BS7!


well, maybe U will put High Beastmaster in Scourgerunner Chariot shooting with S7 bolt thrower, assisting Kharibdyss (to give her +d3 S7 attacks)?
If you want to be more focused at supporting Kharibdyss than shooting (ie. more aggresive playstyle) then go instead with Manticore, it can fly and march and it is easier to stay 3" close to friendly monster - and always, when Kharibdyss dies, +d3 attacks can be given to manticore.

Thats how I see it.


Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:58 am
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:01 am
Posts: 165
Location: Nottingham, Home of Warhammer
TBH with a BSB and any Ld9 Lord you should be fine for Ld for Monsters.

_________________
In Khaine we trust...
Image


Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:31 pm
Profile WWW
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:19 am
Posts: 2089
Between the Medusa, the Hydra, Karibdyss, Harpies (ok, maybe no them...), and Stupidity, having a strong General's leadership seems pretty important to keep near your own lines. Part of me thinks this was a deliberate attempt to prevent the Unkillable Dreadlord from flying around making a nuisance of himself.

_________________
Proud supporter of druchii.net
phierlihy@druchii.net


Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:11 pm
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:53 am
Posts: 506
Location: Germany
The BM bonus just doesn't cut it for me. How often will you just park him right next to your Kharybdiss to give it 1 attack (that's what you better calculate with, 1d doesn't allow for much variance)? That's ~400p just standing there for a minor buff and 3" means he's most likely in sight of something since the Kharibdyss seems to be in combat. And for the use on his own Manticore - well, I'd just roll with the Dreadlord then, probably. 1 Attack by him and Ld10 is more down my line.

I'm way more interested in sticking the BM on the scourgerunner - and that's when he might actually get some use out of the creature buff since him "standing around " (i.e. shooting) isn't a mere waste, but rather using him to his full potential - but the scourgerunner is awfully fragile and I don't know if I want my lord (well, might squeeze a lvl 4 beside him in there...) to be on foot on turn 3 with no designated unit to be with him.


Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:26 pm
Profile
Beastmaster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 338
I wonder if Big-K's Feast of Bones rule triggers if just its regular attacks all hit, but the additional hits 'gifted' from a BM don't? Expecting to hit with up to 8 attacks before FoB triggers is bonkers surely. :? Thoughts?


Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:46 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:19 am
Posts: 2089
Darkmark wrote:
I wonder if Big-K's Feast of Bones rule triggers if just its regular attacks all hit, but the additional hits 'gifted' from a BM don't? Expecting to hit with up to 8 attacks before FoB triggers is bonkers surely. :? Thoughts?

The same idea occurred to me as well which is why I don't think I'll be throwing the beastmaster's ability on my Karibdyss.

Though I think getting a Beastmaster and another monster within 6" of each other will be fairly easy. All they have to do is get into the same combat or fight units fairly close to each other.

_________________
Proud supporter of druchii.net
phierlihy@druchii.net


Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:49 pm
Profile
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Posts: 9675
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Yes, it's practically designed for the beastmaster to be in the same combat with the monster you intend to buff.

_________________
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:23 pm
Profile
Warrior

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:36 pm
Posts: 51
Feast of Bones will rarely be seen, Kharibdyss must first hit with all attacks, and chaces are low.

when rolling toHit on 4+ there is 3.13% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 1.56% (for +1A), 0.78% (for +2A) and 0.39% (for +3A)

when rolling toHit on 3+ there is 13.17% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 8.78% (for +1A), 5.85% (for +2A) and 3.90% (for +3A)

when rolling toHit on 2+ there is 40.19% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 33.49% (for +1A), 27.91% (for +2A) and 23.26% (for +3A)

from my point of view, I would give Kharibdyss +D3 attacks most of the time when S7 is needed, but I will playtest it when plastic DE Manticore will be released (if ever it will be ; P)


Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:13 pm
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:55 pm
Posts: 647
Location: Sweden
Golan wrote:
Feast of Bones will rarely be seen, Kharibdyss must first hit with all attacks, and chaces are low.

when rolling toHit on 4+ there is 3.13% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 1.56% (for +1A), 0.78% (for +2A) and 0.39% (for +3A)

when rolling toHit on 3+ there is 13.17% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 8.78% (for +1A), 5.85% (for +2A) and 3.90% (for +3A)

when rolling toHit on 2+ there is 40.19% chances for additional D6 S7 hits
if given +D3 attacks, the chances to additional hits are: 33.49% (for +1A), 27.91% (for +2A) and 23.26% (for +3A)

from my point of view, I would give Kharibdyss +D3 attacks most of the time when S7 is needed, but I will playtest it when plastic DE Manticore will be released (if ever it will be ; P)


Just use the plastic manticore from warriors of chaos!

_________________

My Hobby Thread

Stats since I started playing again in 2013
W/L/D
Total: 16/21/1
vs. Demons: 0/2/0
vs. Dwarfs: 1/2/0
vs. Empire: 2/4/0
vs. High Elves: 0/4/0
vs. Lizardmen: 3/0/0
vs. Orcs & Goblins: 3/0/1
vs. Ogres: 1/0/0
vs. Skaven: 4/4/0
vs. Tomb Kings: 0/1/0
vs. Warriors of Chaos: 0/3/0
vs. Wood Elves: 2/1/0


Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:15 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software