The School of the Arcane

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights

User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

The School of the Arcane

Post by Dalamar »

Image

We've got access to all 8 lores of magic and our own amazing lore now! With that in mind, my last Treatise on Magic Lores has become obsolete and I intend on writing a new one, including all 8 lores. It will of course take significantly longer to write and as such I'm going to split it into separate posts/edits. This will allow me to expand more than I have in the past on each lore and I will attempt to discover as many combinations and synergies as possible, potentially editing already written text (so do re-read it once I have all lores documented) I will begin with our own signature lore: The Dark Magic.

Dark Magic

Lore Attribute: Spiteful Conjuration
There isn't actually that much to say about this lore attribute as it's random and does extra damage. There's no downside to it, but it's also not something you can count on, just a little extra damage if you roll a double or a treble when casting your spells. Being limited to Hex, Magic Missile and Direct Damage spells is not horrible, as that includes 6 out of 8 spells (Only Black Horror and Power of Darkness don't qualify). It's best if you get a treble when casting Shroud of Despair as it affects multiple units, each of those units takes damage and if any of them happens to die (could be a single model left from a unit) or loses enough models to cause a panic it has a potential to cascade with the Shroud of Despair but it's not something I would count on. Additionally, as Dragon9 pointed out, the damage from the lore attribute is resolved after the spell itself is resolved so there is a potential that the spell will reduce a unit to below 5 rank and file models enabling the attribute to hit any characters in the target unit.

S1: Power of Darkness

8+ to cast means level 4 sorceress can cast it on a single die on 3+ making it a handy spell for that one last power die left in your pool. It's the last one so if you fail there's no real loss, but if you roll 3+ (66% chance) you have a good chance of being able to cast one more spell and that ability should not be frowned upon. Taking a wound on generating 3 dice should not be a problem for a level 4. With Cloak of Twilight and Obsidian Trinket she'll have 2+ ward save against that wound. If taken on a level 2, I believe it's better used as a support for the unit she's with. Reliably cast on 2 dice, she will more often than not get those dice back and boost the power of her unit making it essentially a free spell. This is a spell I believe you have to prepare for. Sorceress in a unit of warlocks can make a good use of it, making them equivalent to Dragon Princes on offense, or a sorceress in a unit of cold one knights, allowing them to charge with S7 (as well as making the Cold Ones/Horses +1 S)
I wouldn't take this spell on a level 4 sorceress as being in combat will limit the choices of targets for the remaining spells she might have while a level 2 with one other spell will be fine powering through just the Power of Darkness. Additionally it's a handy spell to protect your unit from Dwellers Below or opposing Black Horror.
Level 4 - cast on 1 die to regain some power dice
Level 2 - cast on 2 dice to boost a combat unit for essentially no PD

S2: Doombolt
This is one spell I believe my supreme sorceress will often default down to. It does require 3 power dice to be cast reliably by a level caster, but the power of 2d6 S5 hits is not to be underestimated. The boosted version of the spell is a hit and miss as even a supreme sorceress has barely over 50% chance of a successful cast when using 6 dice. When it comes to a level 2 caster (including warlocks) the spell requires at least 4 power dice to be cast effectively so unless supreme sorceress isn't present (or has no viable targets) I wouldn't attempt to cast it often as the drain on PD is significant, not to mention trying for a boosted version with either one requires 6 dice and being really lucky. I would leave Doombolt to the Supreme Sorceress and let her blast away at the tougher enemy units.
Level 4 - cast on 3 dice, attempt to boost it on 6 dice only if you're feeling lucky
Level 2 - cast on 4 dice as a last resort measure since supreme sorceress is far more likely to get it off

1: Chillwind
super easy to cast, even a level 1 will always either cast it or lose concentration on a single die. While S2 is not exactly very impressive, it's the 2d6 hits that make or break this spell. On average, the chillwind does about 2 wounds on your typical ranged unit (T3, 6+ save) while old chillwind did a wound and half on the same target. Additionally, the extra die of hits makes chillwind far more likely to cripple war machines since up until S6, the strength of the attack doesn't really matter, just the number of hits. New chillwind does a wound on average, while old one wouldn't even get that far. The effect also got improved. Where old chillwind required a casualty (removed model) making the effect essentially useless on war machines, the new one only needs to inflict a wound so all BS based war machines are affected far more easily. Now there's an additional effect chillwind has which is more of a psychological one. Having your unit unable to shoot at all (like with the old chillwind) allowed you to freely take the turn to move into more advantageous position. With -1 BS you're tempted to keep shooting... and we all should know how effective hitting on 6+ is. If you don't roll the spell though, it's fine, this spell is not the top of the pack by any stretch.
Level 4 - cast on a single die, but I would trade Chillwind for Doombolt whenever possible
Level 2 - cast on a single die, essentially poor man's magic missile that can in fact shred small units due to number of hits. It can be useful and easy to cast to pull out dispel dice.

2: Word of Pain
Oh my goodiness, we're getting to the really good spells and we're only on number 2! Unboosted version is easy to cast and reduces WS and BS by d3, -1 to BS often cripples shooting units, -3 renders them useless and with 24" range it's easy to get in and I shouldn't have to count benefits of reducing enemy's WS... we've all used Shadow Magic long enough. Important fact to notice here is that there's no limit on reduction for WS and BS, which means that it's very possible to reduce target's WS and BS to 0, making them unable to attack at all. Now the meaty part of the spell, the boosted version does have that limitation but it's still easy to cast! on only 12+ a supreme sorceress pulls it off on mere 3 dice. Now we're reducing WS, BS, S and I. Its like rolling Miasma and Enfeebling Foe into a single spell and making it easier to cast on top of that! With the enemy's stats reduced like that, our fragile elves suddenly become much more resilient. This spell also builds sweet synergies within the lore itself like Bladewind or Black Horror!
Synergies: Bladewind, Black Horror
Level 4 - cast on 2 dice, boosted on 3 dice. Aim at ranged units first, then at combat units that you're about to engage. Win those combats with a single spell.
Level 2 - cast on 3 dice, boosted on 4 for maximum result.

3: Bladewind
The horde thinner spell. By itself it's ok with majority of units (especially the ones fielded in large numbers) that are prime target for this spell are WS3, meaning you will hit half of the models in the unit, possibly wound two thirds of that, so for an easy spell to cast you can thin a horde by a third, more if you get lucky... or slaughter them if you pull off Word of Pain first. Yeah, imagine taking a WS test with WS1 or 0. You need to start practicing your evil laugh right now. The delivery is simple and it can still hit characters out of a unit like it used to, but now they need to fail a WS test, which compared to the last version is just fine. With 3d6 attacks you'd average 10 and about 5-7 actual hits regardless of the size of the unit. Now the spell can slaughter troops like almost no other (Fiery Convocation comes to mind). These are no longer close combat attacks so the spell has lost its usefulness as a war machine blender.
Synergies: Word of Pain
Level 4 - cast on 2 dice, target a WS3 unit and watch your opponent rush to dispel it
Level 2 - cast on 3 dice to ensure successful cast

4: Shroud of Despair

Oh my goodness. When I first read this spell I had a giddy moment. It doesn't seem like much at first, after all its effect doesn't actually do anything initially. Ld is extremely important in 8th edition. Especially the BSB re-rolls. taking away Hold Your Ground! and Inspiring Presence would often be enough by itself... but on top of that the spell reduces Ld by 1 for each failed Ld test and that's shared among targets! If you catch three units (and it's not hard with 12" bubble and fast sorceress), and one of them fails to... say.. swift reform... all 3 take -1 to their Ld! Just think how many times BSB re-roll saved your game plan... now take that away from your opponent. If that wasn't enough, our list is currently equipped to capitalize on this like no other. Cry of War from a death hag forces fear tests at -3 Ld, Bloodwrack Shrine adds additional -1 to the pile, Kharibdyss forces a re-roll of successful tests. It's a spell with enormous potential that if used well can single-handedly win you a game. It can also do absolutely nothing if you cast it willy nilly so be careful jumping all over it, make sure the situation is beneficial to you and keep stacking those modifiers. It lasts until your next magic phase so you have opportunities to force leadership tests in the same magic phase, shooting phase, close combat, enemy movement phase (march blocking and swift reforms), enemy close combat, your following movement phase (terror while charging). That's a lot of opportunities.
Synergies: The Burning Head
Level 4 - cast on 2 dice if you only want to keep pressure on but spell is not essential, power it through with as many dice as you feel necessary if you absolutely need it
Level 2 - cast with 4 dice minimum

5: Soul Stealer
Much reduced version of our old soul stealer that would hit every model in the unit (now Bladewind takes that role) but it got improved! Now the sorceress can gain up to 10 wounds maximum instead of double her starting wounds! Due to the nature of a scattering small template it's only really useful when facing large blocks of enemy infantry to avoid scattering too far. It's likely a spell I would trade for a signature if I didn't see viable targets for it on the other side of the table unless I built a sorceress to abuse it... and there's a sneaky way to abuse it. As a Direct Damage spell, you can cast it from combat (but not into combat) so it can be used on a sorceress equipped with the Black Amulet to charge enemy characters and challenge them to a duel to the death (theirs of course) Black Amulet, Other Trickster's Shard and Tome of Furion to ensure you can replenish lost wounds with Soul Stealer and she can be a veritable assassin of enemy combat monster characters. Sadly Black Amulet only bounces wounds in a challenge, but how many tooled up combat lords will refuse a challenge from a little sorceress? ;)
Level 4 - cast on 3 dice and aim in the middle of an at least 5x5 infantry block, the bigger and heavier armored the better since it ignores armor saves
Level 2 - cast on 4 dice if you have to, but it's not an optimal spell for level 2

6: Arnzipal's Black Horror
It's almost exactly as I predicted! Vortex that causes Strength test or kills outright. Unfortunately unlike nearly all "instant kill" spells, this one allows for ward saves (but not regeneration saves, as they are no longer a special kind of ward save). It's a shame but not the end of the world, the spell is a unit killer, not a character killer (like Dwellers) and most units don't have the luck to sport a ward save. Many people say that Purple Sun is far better due to the I test having a wider range of targets, which partially is true. S test though, opens up a venue for a completely different type of targets, namely those with high natural I and not so high S... like elves. At the same time, models with high I often have it far higher than their S, while models with high S, often have accompanying comparatively high I. What does that mean? It means that spells lowering S (like Word of Pain!) have far greater effect for Black Horror than spells lowering I (like... well, Death doesn't have I lowering spell so like Word of Pain!) have on Purple Sun. Just look at our units and do the math of what you'd be more worried about, Black Horror with -2 S or Purple Sun with -2 I? The boosted version is hard, there's no doubt about it, only about 50% to be cast by a level 4 on 6 dice so I would only use it in most desperate times. And never forget, a vortex is an impassable terrain so even if you don't do any damage with it, you can attempt to position it in front of an enemy unit that you don't want moving any closer to you (easiest done from behind said unit which shouldn't be too hard with our speed)
Synergies: Word of Pain
Level 4 - cast on 4 dice and sail smooth with small template, only cast the big template on 6 dice in most desperate times.
Level 2 - cast on 5 dice for small one... big only if you hope for irresistible force.

Overall we can only boost three of our spells, Doombolt, Word of Pain and Black Horror. Doombolt and Black Horror boosted have such high casting values that I would only attempt them in dire cases while boosted Word of Pain is still easier to cast than equivalent spells in other lores. Looking at my writeup, I will say that Dark Magic is a lore for a level 4 wizard, as most of the spells hover in that magical area where level 4 can still cast them on 2 dice, while level 2 starts to need more and more. That's not to say that lower level caster has no place with Dark Magic, but their role should be much more specific, like a Power of Darkness booster for a combat unit or Word of Pain spammer (which would require Tome of Furion to ensure the spell)

The Lore of Fire

Lore Attribute: Kindleflame

This attribute is two-fold. First, all spells from lore of fire have the Flaming Attacks special rule. This has twofold consequences. One, it makes it a relatively good lore (why only relatively I will say at the end) to combat regeneration troops. Two, it makes is basically useless against anything with protection from fire. These days that includes Dragon Princes and any character that wears armor regardless of army due to the ease of access to Dragonhelm and Dragonbane Gem. Second, all magic missile and direct damage spells from the Lore of Fire, get an additional D3 to the cast roll, if the spell is cast on a unit that had another magic missile or direct damage spell from the Lore of Fire already cast on it in the same phase. Keep in mind it only affects Magic Missile and Direct Damage spells, meaning Fulminating Flame Cage does not benefit from this attribute because it's a Hex. The lore attribute works like a fire would, start small and fan the flames. Starting your magic phase with the small or medium fireball will make all subsequent spells cast at the same target easier to cast. It doesn't stack with itself though. Once you cast a fire spell successfully, all subsequent spells cast at the same target will be at +d3, and not +3d per successful spell.

S: Fireball
One of the easiest spells in the game to cast and one of the few spells that has three levels of fire. From a little ball of fire to throwing blazing suns at the enemy. It is a very straightforward magic missile, doing d6, 2d6 or 3d6 S4 hits with increasing range which makes it a very good spell at clearing out enemy back support like ranged units and war machines (those sixes to would count!). The fact that it's so easy to cast and so versatile makes it a great spell for a support wizard. You can scale the fireball depending on your needs sending d6 or 2d6 hits after chaff and forcing 3d6 hits after larger units.
Level 4: 2 dice for the least fireball is a waste but 1 risk loss of concentration, always cast at least the middle Fireball on 3 dice and if you go big use 5 dice for best chance of success. Cast it first for an easy Kindleflame
Level 2: 1 dice small fireball as loss of concentration is not so terrible for a level 1 and can pull out some dispel dice, 3 dice for middle fireball and 6 for the biggest one. Cast it first for an easy Kindleflame

1: Cascading Fire-Cloak
The spell remains in play which is its saving grace, but with a cast difficulty of only 5+ it makes it also very easy to dispel. Targeting only the wizard's unit severely limits its use but it's not to say that the spell is useless. Considering most wizards like to hide in small shooting units not really geared for combat that get hunted by equally lightly equipped fast cavalry or scours this spell is the perfect deterrent. Cast it in your magic phase when you see enemy getting ready to charge you with a small unit and now they need to do the following: Decide if they still want to charge you and face 2d6 hits (which will cripple such a unit), if they decide to charge, they will have to use their power dice to remove the spell (which a level 4 wizard removes by rolling a 1) and reduce the power of their offensive magic. Even then they might fail (maybe they only had a level 2 Loremaster?) and you still have a protected unit. Far from useless, this spell is more of a "if it happens, great, if not no big loss" kind of spell.
Level 4: Cast on 1 die as the last spell in the phase so the loss of concentration won't be an issue
Level 2: Cast one 1 die as well.

2: Flaming Sword of Rhuin
One of the best augment spells in the game if I dare say so. +1 on to-wound rolls is inherently better than +1 Strength as far as wounding is concerned as it automatically puts you on the one easier level so you can end up wounding even Necrosphynxes (T8) on 5+ while +1S would only let Executioners and Cold One Knights achieve that feat. It also makes the attacks magical, making it a great weapon for a unit of crossbowmen who need to deal with some ethereal targets as no spirit host enjoys a salvo of 20+ magical bolts coming its way. The spell does not remain in play, so once cast you're safe until your next magic phase, making it a good spell to use defensively as well as offensively (as a charge deterrent when your troops wound at +1) unlike the Cascading Fire-Cloak which can be dispelled rather easily. More importantly in can be cast on any unit within a rather long range (24" boosted to 48") so you can keep your wizards safe.
Level 4: 2 dice for a safe cast, 3 dice for the boosted version
Level 2: 2 dice if you like risk, 3 dice to ensure it and 4 for boosted range.

3: The Burning Head
A "template" spell in the fact that it can hit multiple units in a straight line. With its boosted range of 36" that can be a rather large number of units. The spell itself is not very devastating but it has a handful of combinations that work particularly well. Best used on a fast sorceress which can go down the enemy's flank, the spell's strength lies in forcing a panic test even if only a single casualty is caused. This means that if you cast the 36" version and hit 5 enemy units in the battleline, as long as you manage to kill at least a single model in each, that's 5 panic tests your opponent has to take which works great with Shroud of Despair.
Synergies: Shroud of Despair
Level 4: 3 dice for the short range, 4 for long.
Level 2: 4 dice for short range, 5 dice for long

4: Piercing Bolts of Burning
The anti-horde spell. The more ranks the target has, the more effective the spell gets. It's in rather direct competition with fireball though. Cast on 10+ it's twice as hard to cast as the small fireball and to have same effectiveness as the small fireball, the enemy has to have at least two ranks, so as the battle progresses and the units get smaller, this spell's effectiveness diminishes. At 4 ranks, the spell is a little bit better than middle fireball and this is where the spell begins to be useful. 5 ranks or more is where you want to cast it, and you should know when you roll it if you have enough targets, otherwise fireball will always be a better choice.
Level 4: cast on 3 dice for best results, if you really need the extra range, add 4th die.
Level 2: will also need 3 dice to cast reliably and 4 for longer range

5: Fulminating Flame Cage
The even better anti-horde spell. Not only it does massive damage to large units (much larger than Piercing Bolts of Burning) it also has the potential to stop an entire unit in its tracks (at the cost of not doing the massive damage) Any T3 infantry will be terrified of this spell as it hits every single model in the unit. If you've ever been on the receiving end of the Fiery Convocation, this is it's younger brother with just as devastating potential damage output, but cast on 8 less than the Convocation. Additionally, if you have any effects that can force any models in the unit to move, you will be able to force that damage on them. Panic is the most obvious, but you can also challenge a character in the unit and if they refuse, they will move to back ranks, triggering the cage. If they accept and are not in base contact with the challenger, they will have to move into base contact, again triggering the effect. Since the spell is a Hex it can be cast on already engaged units, potentially dealing the damage if they lose combat and break. Even Make Way! will trigger the effect so your opponent might think twice to move his characters around within units.
Synergy: The Burning Head
Level 4: Cast on 3 dice, target something that you can try to force a move on, or you want to not move in their turn. Boosted range will require 4 dice
Level 2: cast on 4 dice for shorter range or longer range, depending on the risk you want to take.

6: Flame Storm
The Fire spell that has potential to be very devastating... or very useless due to the fact that it scatters. You still have 1/3 chance of a hit, which if centered on a unit can be pretty devastating, but large template scatters whole 2d6" making it wildly inaccurate. It's a great spell against horde armies though since very often regardless of where you scatter you will end up hitting something. It's casting difficulty is also rather easy for a 6th spell so there is some benefit to that. Overall I think it's a pretty mediocre spell for the position it occupies.
Level 4: cast on 4 die for the small template, 5 dice for big one
Level 2: 4 dice for small template and 5 dice for the big one.

I haven't mentioned the strength of the attacks in any of the spells as they are all the same, and I believe this is a weakness of the Lore of Fire. All of its attacks are S4 and they can't be boosted in any way, limiting the use of the lore largely to fighting large units of low T/low save infantry. It is a great lore against elven elites but not very universal so I would caution against taking it in an all-comers list. It is by its design a support lore for a lower level caster with none of its spells being game breaking but most being capable of turning the tide of battle. Well placed fireball can win you the support war, flame cage and stop a nasty unit of swordmasters in its tracks and burning head can scare away half a greenskin army if placed well. Level 2 wizard can always drop the less useful spell (Piercing Bolts or Flame Storm) to a fireball and keep the good ones (Flaming Sword or Fulminating Flame Cage) as a d6 S4 hits is always a useful spell, especially if it's cast on 3+ by a level 2 wizard. For a level 4 I believe Fire magic is a waste as none of the spells are capable of making up for the cost of the wizard, barring crazy luck.

The Lore of Beasts

Lore Attribute: Wildheart
This lore attribute is very specific and heavily dependent on both your, and your opponent's army list. Since you can't guess what your opponent might bring, you may as well disregard that part and treat it as a bonus. When it comes to your own list though, the lore attribute makes this lore benefit greatly from your build. All spells that target some sort of a "beastly" unit, get +1 to cast so if you build your list fully mounted, every augment (except one) is easier to cast by 1 point. It's worth mentioning that 4 out of 7 spells are augments (with one not benefitting from the attribute. When it comes to hex and magic missile spells in the lore, you will also gain the benefit of the attribute as long as you don't target infantry with them (unless they're beastmen).

S: Wyssan's Wildform
The spell that the entire lore largely revolved around. It's a powerful and universal spell that greatly benefits anyone it's cast on but it's particularly good when cast on elves due to natural elven lack of resilience. T4 elves are unheard of and Wildform gives us easy access to it. The downside is, it's pretty hard to cast for a signature spell, needing 10+ to be successful. This can be slightly mitigated due to the attribute if you augment cavalry or monsters and making our knights S7 on the charge and T4 is pretty useful. It's also useful defensively against enemy spells like Dwellers or Black Horror or any generic magic missile thanks to boosted T
Level 4: Easily cast on 2 dice
Level 2: Use 3 dice even if targeting cavalry

1: The Flock of Doom
The spell seems rather underwhelming. 2d6 S2 hits is barely enough to cause a scratch in most targets. Don't underestimate the value of a cheap magic missile though, it's cast only on 5+ so a single die cast will either be successful or fail completely due to not enough power. It's even easier cast on cavalry and I believe it's one of its three prime targets. One - fast cavalry, they are T3 and in small numbers so a missile that inflicts double the hits of a typical magic missile can't be disregarded. Two - skirmishers, for the same reasons as fast cavalry. And three probably the most surprising - war machines. You wound war machines on 6s unless you can get an S6 or better ranged attack which means that until S6, S is irrelevant and the number of hits matters much more. 2d6 hits has much higher chance of inflicting 2-3 wounds than 1d6 after all. With it's boosted version doubling the range, it can snipe out war machines starting from turn 1.
Level 4: single die as the last spell, two dice if you actually need to cast it or are boosting it
Level 2: single die as the last spell, two/three dice if you actually need to cast it or are boosting it

2: Pann's Impenetrable Pelt
The first of the character improvement spells, especially useful if you have multiple characters in close proximity. It's simple in its use, like the beasts that the lore represents. By increasing the T of a single character by 3, you can create a tank in a pinch out of anybody. Master with re-rollable 1+ save and T6 will be a really tough nut to crack. Boosted version makes all characters within 12" gain the benefit of the spell so keeping them close together (a bunch of cheap masters perhaps? acting as a character based unit of fast cavalry?) and amaze your enemy with tough elves!
Level 4: 2 dice for an easy cast, 4 dice for boosted
Level 2: 2 dice could be tricky so 3 to ensure it. 2 dice if you will get the attribute bonus, 5 dice for boosted

3: The Amber Spear
Pocket Bolt Thrower, or pocket Cannon. It is a really handy spell but also extremely straightforward so there's really not much I can say about it. Keep in mind the lore attribute when using it though as most of your targets will be of the big and ugly type and you'll likely get the benefit of the attribute, making the spell easier to cast.
Level 4: 2 dice will cast the bolt thrower version, 4 for the cannonball
Level 2: 3 dice for bolt thrower, 5 dice for cannonball

4: The Curse of Anraheir
This spells is somewhat controversial due to the definition of "terrain" some players use. Thankfully the rulebook itself comes to our rescue and silences those dissenters (in case you need a proof). The rulebook defines Open Ground as "the most prevalent type of battlefield terrain" so it is clearly affected by the curse. This spell can be deadly on any kind of unit (that doesn't have ward saves available) as failing dangerous terrain on 1-2 will mean a third of the unit will succumb to it if they are careless enough to take the risk. It is a great spell to stop otherwise hard to deal with heavy cavalry or slow down large units of infantry. Keep in mind, your opponent can ignore the dangerous terrain part of the spell if they don't march, charge or flee with the unit it affects. On top of that effect the spell also reduces the chances to hit of an affected unit by 1, so it's very universal as it lowers the odds of ranged units hitting you, as well as slowing combat units down (or killing a third of them if they charge/march anyway). The ability to extend the spell's range can be useful sometimes, even though base range is already 36", I doubt that anyone will ever use the maximum 72" range though... after all the standard game table is 80" across.
Level 4: 3 dice, 4 if you for some reason need to long range. 2 and 3 dice respectively if you get the attribute
Level 2: 3 dice, 4 for the longer range

5: The Savage Beast of Horros
The second of the character improving spells. This one increasing S and A, and both by 3 can make our characters into incredible killing machines with typically 6-7 S7 attacks and that's before you take any weapons into account. If you're feeling lucky, this is the spell to go for if you take some of the more dubious weapons in our arsenal. Chillblade has issues with going through armor? Not so much if you're S7. Obsidian Blade or Hydra Blade has troubles with wounding? Not so much if you're S7. Even better when you double the available attacks. Even more incredible when used on Death Hags, making them 8 S7 attacks PMSing monstrosities. Add Rune of Khaine for a mini Hellebron with 9-11 S7 attacks. The boosted version affects all friendly characters within 12" like the pelt so again, keeping them close is a good idea for the lore of beasts.
Level 4: 3 dice to cast it, 2 if getting the attribute bonus. For big version you will need 6 dice, 5 if you're getting the attribute should do it.
Level 2: 3 dice to cast regardless of attribute, 6 dice for boosted version.

6: Transformation of Kadon
The Transformation! This spell is more fun than anything else as it faces a handful of issues. First - it can only be cast on the wizard herself, and she has to be on foot (so no lore attribute bonus). Second - it's remains in play, so your opponent can dispel it in their magic phase. This means that you either have to put your wizard in a risky combat first, and then try to cast the spell... which is a pretty obvious thing to dispel by your opponent, or cast the spell first and hope your opponent doesn't remove in in their magic phase. There is an upside to it though. Once successfully cast, the sooner the better, it puts pressure on your opponent since nobody wants to get charged by a Mountain Chimera. This means your opponent will want to dispel it in their magic phase if they failed to do it in yours, taking away on average 4 PD from their resources. Even better if they try to dispel it and fail, but it all is a very risky prospect meaning you can't count on it as a strategy.
Level 4: 4 dice for smaller monster, 6 dice for big one
Level 2: 5 dice for small monster, 6 for big.

With Lore of Beasts you can count on only one thing - augments. They are really good augments but aside from the signature they all improve your characters in one way or another which in a way forces your army build down a certain path. If you decide to take a level 4 sorceress with lore of beasts, I believe you will have to emphasize on that part really strongly, fielding multiple mounted characters and plenty of mounted units so you won't waste the strength of your magic. This leads me to believe that Lore of Beasts is best used on a support level 2 wizard. You can always drop down to the signature which is a universally good spell. If you happen to get either Flock, or Amber spear you can always make her act as ranged support and if you roll the transformation with a level 2 wizard, she can double up as protection against enemy magic if you're willing to force the spell through. A mountain chimera is far more dangerous than any level 2 wizard. Concluding I believe Lore of Beasts is best used on a support level 2 caster. We're not beastmen after all.

The Lore of Metal

Lore Attribute: Metalshifting
As great as this attribute is, it only affects two spells of the lore - Searing Doom and Gehenna's Golden Hounds. While Final Transmutation also fits within its restrictions, it already overcomes everything the attribute would help with on its own. It ignores all saves and kills outright so even flammable troops won't be any worse off (since they will be the ultimate worse). That said, it is still an attribute that defines the lore and the reason why this lore is most often taken. The ability to turn someone's defense against them is not to be underestimated. Watching heavily armored knights die as their heavy armor melts on them is a glorious sight after all. One problem is that it also makes the spells flammable, rendering it nearly useless against most armored characters due to cheap and easy access to 2++ against flaming attacks.

S: Searing Doom
The bread and butter of the lore. Probably the main reason why you chose lore of metal with the rest of the spells being a bonus. It's not easy to cast for a signature spell and even harder to cast when you consider the difficulty of other spells that do d6 hits. This one gets better with the quality of the target though, and sometimes is even worth it to cast on targets with low save if they have comparatively high toughness. While the most common target for Searing Doom is knights, look at potentially casting it on a Frost Phoenix, giving the spell an equivalent of S5 missile or a Necrosphinx with 5+ save and T8. Searing Doom would be like an S7 shot in that case
Level 4: 3 dice for small version, 6 for the big spell
Level 2: 3 dice for small version, 6 for the big spell

1: Plague of Rust
Remove 1 point of armor from any unit for the rest of the game. With 24" range, it's easy to keep casting this spell at your intended target from turn 1. Remember that dropping someone's save from 2+ to 3+ or from 5+ to 6+ effectively halves successful saves made. Warhammer is filled with little thresholds like that where a single point makes a world of difference. Important fact to notice here is that this spell, while reducing target's armor, in no way adversely affects Searing Doom. This is because Metalshifting works based on unmodified armor save of the target so even if the knight's armor is rusted completely through, it's still metal armor. This spell will remain on the target for the entirety of the game and can't be dispelled except with Drain Magic. Only one other spell like this exists in the game so it's definitely something worth looking into.
Level 4: easy cast on 2 dice, boosted range with 3
Level 2: easy cast on 2 dice, boosted range with 3

2: Enchanted Blades of Aiban
Enchanted blades are simply amazing, especially for Dark Elves since we lack any units with magical attacks so ethereal units can sometimes have a field day. The benefit is not as great as it used to be as with ASF we re-roll pretty much anytime but a +1 to hit, can't go wrong. This, coupled with Armor Piercing special rule is especially beneficial to our Executioners, who don't get ASF re-rolls, making them hit on 2+ and 3+ when fighting elites, then wound on 2+, re-rolling 1s and reducing armor by 4 points. Nobody wants to fight a monstrosity like that. Similar to Flaming Sword of Rhuin, it's a great tool to give your darkshards an accurate salvo against ethereal targets. Just remember you don't get the benefit of Armor Piercing twice.
Level 4: cast on 2 dice with 3 to boost the distance
Level 2: cast on 3 dice with 4 to boost the distance

3: Glittering Robe
Really, really good augment, especially for our lightly armored elves. Turning nearly any of our infantry units into 3+ save heavy infantry, even letting our dark riders have 2+ save for a turn! It additionally comes with the option to bubble it onto every friendly unit within 12", making it an incredibly good defensive spell. The short range is rather limiting though, forcing you to keep your army compact so use your fast units to direct the enemy where you want them to go as best as you can. Keep in mind Scaly Skin doesn't stack so the spell will have no effect on any model wearing a sea dragon cloak or on any of our big monsters (except for a Manticore without Iron Skin... but why wouldn't you give Manticore Iron Skin?)
Level 4: 2 dice for single target, 4 dice for bubble effect
Level 2: 3 dice for single target, 5 dice for bubble effect

4: Gehenna's Golden Hounds
This is basically a miniature searing doom. It allows you to pick out characters from a unit, but it also allows for a Look Out Sir! roll, so don't expect to actually snipe any characters with it. The upside is that if the character is in a unit that's just as heavily armored, the hits that don't go on the character will still do considerable damage, and it's easier to cast than small searing doom! Short range is the downfall of this spell as you're likely to get to cast it only once before combat is met. If you cast it on a rank and file model, the spell is no different from Searing Doom as excess wounds spill over onto the unit as normal.
Level 4: 2 dice for short ranged cast, 3 for extended range
Level 2: 3 dice for short ranged cast, 4 for extended range

5: Transmutation of Lead
Very nice and not overly hard to cast spell which creates a synergy with our own dark magic. -1 penalty to weapon skill often can mean no difference so make sure you know the to-hit table before you cast it. Casting it on WS3 models fighting your WS4 elves will do nothing at all to the hit chances for example, you will still be hitting them on 3+, they will still be hitting you on 4+. -1BS is good point for point so it's always nice to cast it as the difference between hitting on 5+ and 6+ is colossal if you don't have the extra shots to offset it like the Druchii do. Finally the -1 save is a great addition to the hex, with magic coming before shooting phase you can set yourself a target for a following armor piercing repeater onslaught, or soften a target up for combat (It may even be used as a deterrent to stop your opponent from charging you with weakened troops). Combined with Word of Pain, or even Miasma, it can feasibly reduce the target's WS or BS to 0
Synergy: Word of Pain, Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma
Level 4: 3 dice for lower power, 4 dice for extended range
Level 2: 4 dice for lower power, 5 dice for extended range

6: Final Transmutation
First from the "I kill you and there's nothing you can do about it" list of #6 spells. This one is peculiar in the fact that it doesn't cause statistic tests and it works very simply. Target has 1W - dead on 5+, target has more than 1W - dead on 6. Keep in mind it works based on wounds on the profile so even if you drop that pesky High Elf Prince to last wound, he'll still die only on a 6. Nothing else can affect that roll which is a blessing and a curse. Blessing, because your opponent can't protect his units other than by dispelling the spell, curse because you're unable to weaken the target to be more susceptible to it. The larger the target unit is, the more efficient the spell becomes making it an obvious anti-death star choice. Additionally once some models are turned into statues of solid gold the secondary effect of the spell comes active, it makes every enemy unit within 6" of the target (including the target) suffer from stupidity at the start of their next turn, potentially ruining your opponent's plan... and just think how many tests they can potentially fail for the Shroud ;)
Synergy: Shroud of Despair
Level 4: 4 dice for an easy, short ranged cast, 5 dice for extended range
Level 2: 5 dice for extended range, 5 dice for extended range

Some say that the Lore of Metal is the lore of choice against heavily armored enemies. I have to disagree. Only two spells depend on enemy armor being good to work well, one of those two spells is rather mediocre. The remaining 5 spells either improve your own troops (always a good thing) or don't care about the enemy's armor. The lore also contains one of the anti-death star spells and those don't always carry a lot of armor (like the common in my area Phoenix Guard Death Star). Overall I would consider this spell a lot more universal than the general consensus is as you don't always have to switch a spell to a signature and if you happen to roll golden hounds and don't need them, you'll be down a single spell but will still have three very useful ones so it's certainly not the end of the world especially since all of the lores suffer from "this spells is useless to me right now" syndrome.

The Lore of Light

Lore Attribute: Exorcism
Exorcism is very straightforward and opponent specific. If you happen to play against any army other than undead or demons, it's absolutely useless. Otherwise it's an extremely nice attribute when you take into account the damaging light spells and their options. Of course talking about an all-comers list, I don't see the attribute taking effect often, but if you're allowed to tailor your list, and know there are demons or undead you will be fighting... It can be devastating.

S: Shem's Burning Gaze
It begins as a standard magic missile. d6 S4. But, where all the other missiles boost the number of hits, keeping their use to largely the same targets but with higher damage, Burning Gaze when boosted becomes an S6 missile, which drastically changes what you can cast it on. Need to deal with fast cavalry and scouts? Cast the small version. Monster bearing down at you? Boost it up. When you take the attribute into account, any greater demon will shake in their proverbial boots when faced with a chance of taking 2d6 S6 hits.
Level 4: you can give it a shot on 1 die, two if you want to be sure but to boost it you will need 4 power dice.
Level 2: Same as level 4 largely as the low version is really easy to cast while boosted will require 5 dice from a level 2

1: Phâ's Protection
A spell that we, as squishy elves, should love. -1 to hit can me an enormous difference. Most things in close combat hit us on 4+, making it 5+ will drastically improve our chances of survival, moving the shooting table from 5+ to 6+ is incredible too when that happens. What's more, it has a 50% chance of stopping non-BS war machines as well so those cannonballs become a lot less scary. But that's not everything still! This spell (like many Light spells) can be boosted into a bubble version, affecting all allied units in range. Well placed you can walk your army up to the enemy under great protection of the Light magic. Small version often can be ignored, simply by choosing a different target, but bubbled you're making your opponent's life very difficult.
Synergy: The Speed of Light, Word of Pain, Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma, Transmutation of Lead
Level 4: cast on a single or two dice, bubble on 3
Level 2: cast on two dice, bubble on 4

2: The Speed of Light
By itself this spell is actually not that very impressive. WS10 and I10 sound great on paper but we already sport above average WS and excellent I. In most cases the Speed of Light will give us no benefit. There are a few times when it will though: Fighting enemy characters who can have higher I will let us keep the ASF re-rolls, fighting enemy elites with WS5 will enable us to hit them on 4+. Against troops that are already WS4 or less it can have a great benefit when combined with Pha's Protection, first becoming WS5 so enemy hits you on 5+ and then reducing their chance to hit by 1. Welcome to the world of Nurgle Warriors.
Synergy: Phâ's Protection, Word of Pain, Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma, Transmutation of Lead

3: Light of Battle
This is a spell that's rather tricky to use, but its use when utilized to the best effect can turn the tide of battle (which is pretty impressive for a spell that's not #6). By casting this spell you're making the affected units essentially unbreakable with the benefit that you can still flee from charges if you deem them unfavorable (and will rally automatically next turn). A really good use of this spell is to use your usual charge benders to force your opponent's unit to charge them at an awkward angle or not charge at all. Without the spell, they would likely break the unit and reform, not gaining you much. With this spell in place, your little unit will hold the line regardless of the odds and you can counter charge the enemy into an exposed flank. This is easier said than done though but keep practicing. This is a second spell that can be bubbled and just ask any undead how great it can be to know for sure your army will not run no matter what.
Level 4: cast on 2 dice, bubble on 4
Level 2: cast on 3 dice, bubble on 5

4: Net of Amyntok
Given the right target (S3 or less) this is a spell that can really mess with your opponent's battle plan. Especially if the unit targeted contains any wizards. Reading through the spell, any time the target unit wants to perform *any* action, it must take a S test. If failed they take d6 S4 hits (2d6 if cast on demons!). Lets think how many actions a unit can take between the spell being cast and the beginning of your next magic phase shall we? Panic and run in your magic or shooting phase or break from combat in your combat phase - 1, rally in their movement phase (because rally allows you to reform, otherwise they are stuck facing away) - 2, cast spells in their magic phase - +1 per spell attempted so possibly +4 for 6 - panic from a miscast and run - 7, get charged in your next turn and flee again - 8. 8 S tests on a unit with the net on them. Of course you are unlikely to cause that many tests but then again you may not need to. If a fleeing unit fails their test, they can't move and you are very likely to catch them.
Synergy: Word of Pain, Enfeebling Foe, Soulblight
Level 4: cast on 3 dice, 4 if you want to boost the range
Level 2: cast on 3 dice, 4 if you want to boost the range

5: Banishment
The spell that any form of Light Council relies on. Personally I don't believe Dark Elves can create a good light council as it depends on multiple Banishment spells and only a handful of armies are capable of that. Without the light council though the spell is rather underwhelming as a 2d6 S4 hits is a staple of a fireball. Start adding level 1 light wizards though and you are making the spell significantly stronger. You would need to make it at least S6 (so two additional wizards) but S7 is preferable (and deadly to most high value targets). If you believe taking a level 4 Light mage and 3 level 1 supporters is a good idea, go right ahead. Lore of Light is a pretty strong lore of magic (if situational). Just remember, especially when facing an opposing light council, that all wizards have to remain within 12" of the one with Banishment to increase its strength, forcing the council to stay close together and potentially making them vulnerable to targeted assault.
Level 4: 3 dice to cast, 4 for boosted range
Level 2: 3 dice to cast, 4 for boosted range

6: Birona's Timewarp
The ultimate #6 is not as useful to us (or other elves) as it may be to armies without army wide ASF. Don't dismiss it based on that one point though, it's not all the spell does. In fact I would say it's a minor thing among what the spell does. Granting an additional attack to almost any of our units turns them from killing machines to slaughtering war monsters. Executioners and Cold One Knights are prime targets for this spell. Then there's the movement effect if you cast it on a unit that's out of combat which doubles their M value. In our cast this means every single affected unit becomes M10 (as that is the cap). By every single affected unit I mean, did I mention it can also be bubbled? It won't be easy to cast in that form but making a vast majority of your army M10 and +1 A is not insignificant (even though it may appear to be)
Level 4: 3 dice for single target, 6 for bubble
Level 4: 4 dice for single target, 6 for bubble... if you're feeling lucky

Overall I see Lore of Light as predominantly support lore. Do not get swayed by the shininess of an S6 or S7 banishment. While a powerful spell, all it does is a little bit of damage. Phâ's Protection, Light of Battle, Net of Amyntok and Birona's Timewarp is where the meat of this lore of magic lies, Burning Gaze and Banishment are just gravy (and something to switch to if you get speed of light without Pha's Protection). Personally I would take it on a supporting level 2 sorceress as many of the spell are rather easy to cast if you don't worry about boosting them. Signature is really useful to a support wizard due to its versatility in choice of targets but I would never pass up on an opportunity to throw the Net of Amyntok on anything valuable. Even failing a single S test can destroy your plans... just ask any greenskin player how they feel about planning and animosity.

The Lore of Life

Lore Attribute: Lifebloom
One of the nice attributes that work on all spells in the lore (that's actually less common than it should be). Every time you successfully cast any Life spell, the caster, or any friendly model within 12" regains a wound. It doesn't sound like much but in a good magic phase you should get two spells off, three if your opponent is concerned about dispelling Dwellers. Returning 2-3 wounds to a character or a monster is a very handy thing. It helps keep our (now much less resilient) monsters and new cannon magnets (both shrines) stay alive.

S: Earth Blood
Regeneration is always a good thing to have, aside from Cauldron of Blood this is our only other way to give a reasonable ward save to a unit. There is a downside though as the spell only affects the unit the sorceress is in. This can be an unwanted scenario if you want to protect a combat unit, but it's always a nice thing if your sorceress is holding back, perhaps with a unit of darkshards, able to keep them alive longer.
Synergies: Throne of Vines
Level 4: 2 dice to cast
Level 2: 3 dice to cast

1: Awakening of the Wood
While Lore of Life isn't among the overall destructive ones, it still has some potentially devastating spells. Cast only on 6+, Awakening of the wood is just that spell when targeting the right victim. There's usually something sitting in a forest, most likely a unit of scouts or a ranged unit that wants to benefit from the soft cover. Those units are ripe for the picking of the really easy to cast 2d6 hits. If the Throne of Vines is in play, it greatly expands the range of targets for this spell, even if they're not in a forest.
Synergies: Throne of Vines
Level 4: 2 dice to cast unless it's your last spell or you don't mind high chance of losing concentration
Level 2: 2 dice to cast

2: Flesh to Stone
One of the main spells for the Lore of Life, one of the reasons why you take this lore in the first place. Increase of toughness is a great tool regardless of army, but making elves T5/7 is incredible turning from the squishiest army out there to a stack of bricks. Obviously you will want this spell on a unit that will be taking the most punishment. Units that might get hit first before they get to attack can also benefit from the spell. Executioners or one of our monsters are your choice targets for this spell as well as anything getting shot at (your opponent will likely just target another unit instead of shooting at T5 elves)
Synergies: Thone of Vines
Level 4: cast on 2 dice
Level 2: cast on 3 dice

3: Throne of Vines
The best... and at the same the worst in my opinion spell in Lore of Life. The best, because it makes other spells more powerful without making them harder to cast, making it unique among all the lores. The worst though, because it's a crutch. If you want to cast the more powerful versions of Life spells, your opponent will see it coming. This can still be used to your advantage though. Casting the spell early in the game, your opponent might let it through and will have to waste his power dice later in the game to remove it. Casting it later can draw out dispel dice, making room for your other spells. On top of making your other spells more powerful, it makes the wizard nearly immune to miscasts which is a great thing when 6-dicing Dwellers Below. I would not take this spell on a level 2 wizard, because it will leave you with one useful spell, making it easy for your opponent to decide which one to stop.
Synergies: Earth Blood, Awakening of the Wood, Flesh to Stone, Shield of Thorns, Regrowth
Level 4: cast on 2 dice, the more dice you use the more likely your opponent is to let it through and focus on dispelling other spells
Level 2: cast on 3 dice

4: Shield of Thorns
Comparable to Cascading Fire-Cloak but potentially stronger due to the fact that it can be cast on any friendly unit within 24", freeing up the wizard to keep safe away from combat. 2d6 S3 hits doesn't sound like anything too powerful, but don't underestimate the power of a handful of hits on a small unit. Shield of Thorns is best cast on something threatened by typical fast cavalry or skirmishers, making them think twice before engaging your previously vulnerable war machines. With Throne of Vines in place it becomes a respectable S4, making it useful even in combat between professional warriors.
Synergies: Throne of Vines
Level 4: cast on 3 dice
Level 2: cast on 3 dice

5: Regrowth
This one is a funny spell when you're playing Dark Elves due to our access to the Sacrificial Dagger. The spell brings back d3+1 (d6+1 with Throne of Vines active) wounds worth of models to a unit you cast it on. If it's a unit the sorceress is using as fuel for sacrificial dagger... well, you may end up with overall positive balance ratio of models sacrificed to models resurrected. It is also the ultimate evil to sacrifice someone for spell fuel and then bring them back to do it again. The spell returns models to full wounds first so if cast on a unit with damaged Bloodwrack Shrine it it, it will first bring back champion and the musician (if applicable) and then heal the Shrine back up to full wounds before bringing back any other models (keep in mind it doesn't work on characters or their mounts so it will not affect the Cauldron of Blood).
Synergies: Throne of Vines
Level 3: cast on 3 dice
Level 2: cast on 3 dice

6: The Dwellers Below
Another one of the "I kill you" spells. Similar to the Final Transmutation in that it hits every model in target unit, making it really good at sniping characters, especially wizards which tend to have lowest S in their armies. There isn't much to say about this spell as it's the fire and forget type not requiring much thinking or strategy. Dark Elves are in a unique position here being able to ensure we have a Strength lowering spell makes for a deadly combo with the Dwellers below (even Warriors of Chaos won't pass many S tests when they're S1) but it requires magical superiority. It is a rather short ranged spell so being able to get in range and get out quickly (Dark Steed or Pegasus) is a good idea if you want to avoid trying to cast the boosted version.
Synergies: Word of Pain, Enfeebling Foe
Level 4: 5 dice, 6 for boosted but even that doesn't ensure it.
Level 2: 6 dice to even attempt the small one.

Overall I see Lore of Life as largely defensive lore designed to keep your forces alive as you cross the field and later in combat as it's able to give them regeneration, increase toughness and bring back dead models. It does have Dwellers Below though, making it one of the deadliest lores of magic as well if your opponent tends to build death stars. It can be effectively used on a level 2 wizard as long as you avoid Throne of Vines, making the wizard into a force multiplier, making your troops far more resilient. For a level 4, this lore is crazy easy to cast, being able to cast majority of the spells on 2 dice, you can invest in the Sacrificial Dagger and go for trying to 2-die every spell with a bonus die when loss of concentration is possible. Then you can bring the sacrificed models back to life. I would see this lore used in predominantly infantry force with a sprinkle of monsters and multi-wound single models like chariots to take advantage of the lore attribute and augments. All of the spells are single target so it's far more useful on large units than, unlike lore of light which can bubble most of its spells, on an MSU style list.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Dalamar »

The Lore of Heavens

Lore Attribute: Roiling Skies
This attribute is basically a free magic missile against any flying creature. It's not exactly very powerful but d6 S4 hits can upset the most annoying fliers like harpies or great eagles. This would be great if those targets were the prime ones for the actual spells. Unfortunately, Lore of Heavens spells are very good in most cases, and often it's a waste to target small fliers with them and a d6 S4 hits is unlikely to do much harm to a bigger target like a dragon or griffon.

S: Iceshard Blizzard
In my opinion this is one of the best signature spells, often underappreciated. It has strong synergies with many other spells and even by itself it can change the outcome of any combat. -1 Modifier to all to hit rolls can make your elves being hit on 5+ which is huge to our squishy T3 troops. After all, not getting hit in the firtst place is the best elven defense. Often -1 to hit has far bigger effect than reducing their WS, although in case of BS 1 point equals -1 to hit. Often overlooked part is the reduction of target's Ld though. Have you ever had trouble breaking that steadfast block? Well imagine their Ld is down by 1 point. Doesn't sound like much but in the world of random rolls, the difference between Ld 7 and Ld 6 is huge
Synergies: Shroud of Despair, Word of Pain, Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma, Burning Head, Curse of the Midnight Wind, Transmutation of Lead
Level 4: cast on 2 dice, boost on 3
Level 2: cast on 2 dice, boost on 3

1: Harmonic Convergence
This spell is largely wasted on the Druchii. With ASF and Hatred (High Elves) we re-roll all misses against vast majority of opponents and with Murderous Prowess we re-roll 1s to wound all the time anyway. Re-rolling 1s on armor saves can still be used to great effect on knights and often might be worth that re-roll alone considering how easy to cast the spell is. If you build your list around units of Cold One Knights I would say this spell can be used to great effect in its bubble version.
Synergies: Glittering Robes
Level 4: cast on 2 dice, boost on 3
Level 2: cast on 2 dice, boost on 4

2: Wind Blast
Often overlooked as a "useless" spell, Wind Blast has a game changing potential and one fun synergy. Have you ever failed a charge by 1" and stumbled forward into enemy charge range? No problem, just wind blast them d3+1 or d6+2 inches away and you're back to being safe. Extra damage is minimal so it shouldn't really be counted for. Keeping in mind the unit is pushed directly away from the caster, if your wizard is mounted, it can be more than possible to push that unit of knights into a marsh, or deep into a forest forcing them to take dangerous terrain tests next turn or slow them down horribly. The fun synergy is with the Flame Cage which burns all models in the target unit if the unit moves for any reason... well, this forces the unit to move!
Synergies: Flame Cage
Level 4: cast on 2 dice, boost on 4
Level 2: cast on 2 dice, boost on 4

3: Curse of the Midnight Wind
Re-rolling all 6s to hit, wound and armor saves doesn't sound like much, until you start lowering your opponent's stats. If your opponent is only hitting on 6s, re-rolling them will be a pain in the behind. It also drastically reduces chances for killing blows and poison. Rather heavily dependant on synergies to be an amazing spell, it still has good use on its own, especially against the aforementioned enemies.
Synergies: Transmutation of Lead, Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma, Iceshard Blizzard, Word of Pain, The Enfeebling Foe
Level 4: cast on 3 dice, boost on 6
Level 2: cast on 3 dice, boost on 6

4: Urannon's Thunderbolt
Not much to say here, it's a S6 magic missile with no particular special things about it. Pretty impressive range for a missile when boosted though.
Level 4: cast on 3 dice, boost on 4
Level 2: cast on 3 dice, boost on 4

5: Comet of Cassandora
This is the perfect spell against bunkered up gunlines. Requires no front arc or line of sight so you can hide your army away from a nasty gunline and drop comets on their heads. It's not even remains in play so you can put a new token down each turn. They will either run towards you, which is great for you, or they stay and take the comets, which is also great for you! Against mobile list this spell can be equally dangerous to your own troops.
Synergies: Flame Cage, Melkot's Mystifing Miasma, Wind Blast
Level 4: cast on 3 dice, boost on 6
Level 2: cast on 4 dice, boost on 6 if you're feeling lucky

6: Chain Lightning
The ultimate anti-MSU spell. A single hit isn't overly dangerous to a large unit. It will cause damage but d6 hits can often be shrugged off (especially for the casting value), but if you can make the spell hit multiple small units it suddenlt becomes very devastating to an MSU list, potentially cutting its effectiveness down in half from a single cast. Chain Lightning is to MSU lists what Dwellers is to deathstars.
Synergies: Wind Blast
Level 4: cast on 4 dice
Level 2: cast on 5 dice

Overall, Lore of Heavens seems to be very dependant on synergies to become amazing but it is still very good even without them. Its damage is limited to specific types of foes for the most part so I wouldn't count on it breaking the enemy's back (unless it's a gunline or MSU list). Heavens augments can be game changing but they are the ones that benefit the best from synergies through other lores (I would recommend Shadow as Miasma targets everything necessary to make Heavens augments amazing). Surprisingly enough, Wind Blast synergizes pretty well with its own lore. If you're taking the lore for those augments I would say level 2 is plenty as Iceshard is a great spell by itself. If you're planning to deal some damage, take level 4.

The Lore of Shadow

Lore Attribute: Smoke and Mirrors
Honestly this must be one of those useless attributes that never see the light of day. At least I have never managed to pull it off successfully. It is not completely useless though, it simply depends on your list. If your characters are all different troop types (like mine often are) then obviously it will never see much use. If you build your characters around abusing the attribute though you may be able to pull off such tricks as "charge a solo sorceress out of a unit, then smoke and mirrors a character with crown of command and replace her, pinning the unit in place, or replacing a vulnerable sorceress with just as vulnerable but much more deadly assassin etc. Overall I would rate the attribute as a curiosity rather than actually useful.

S: Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma
If this is not the best signature in all of the lores than I don't know what is. Extremely easy to cast, neuters opposing BS shooting, slows down enemy advance and makes them more vulnerable to Shadow damage spells. If it made sandwiches it would be amazing. It synergizes with multitude of other spells and makes all of your combat troops more effective, 1 point of difference in WS can often mean the difference between a win and a loss.
Synergies: Transmutation of Lead, Pha's Protection, Iceshard Blizzard, Curse of Midnight Wind, Word of Pain
Level 4: cast on 2 dice, boost on 3
Level 2: cast on 2 dice, boost on 3

1: Steed of Shadows
It's a spell you need to prepare for. It won't work in every scenario, it might never work if your list is not ready for it. If you have a lone character (especially a combat one) it can be incredibly useful to propel them 20" forward, obviously trying to put them behind the enemy lines. 12" range limits the spell's usefulness hence why you have to prepare for it. Luckily most of the time in my experience your opponent will be more worried by other spells and let this one through.
Level 4: cast on 2 dice
Level 2: cast on 2 dice

2: The Enfeebling Foe
Together with the Withering these two spells make for bread and butter of the lore of shadow. What I do find surprising though, is that its effect is the same as just a fraction of the Word of Pain, and it's harder to cast! It does make up for it by being remains in play though, acting doubly as a magical defense, forcing your opponent to spend their power dice or keep their unit neutered.
Synergies: Black Horror, Curse of the Midnight Wind, The Dwellers Below
Level 4: Cast on 3 dice, boost on 4
Level 2: Cast on 3 dice, boost on 4

3: The Withering
As The Enfeebling Foe, the lore of shadow revolves around this spell. This one can be used more defensively though, reducing the target's toughness and making them far more vulnerable to ranged attacks and other damage spells. Just like Enfeebling Foe, it remains in play doubling as magic defense. It's not easy to cast though so should be used when necessary.
Level 4: Cast on 4 dice, boost on 4
Level 2: Cast on 4 dice, boost on 5

4: The Penumbral Pendulum
Lore of Shadow's cannonball. With a tiny difference that the target first has to fail its I test, making it not exactly very useful against your typical cannonball targets (chariots and Steam Tanks test on crew's I for example). Since it's determined like for a bouncing cannonball, characters get a Look Out, Sir! roll, making it bad at sniping characters too. Coupled with the Miasma though, it becomes pretty good at hunting down monsters with average initiative (and don't forget war machines fail their characteristic tests, except for Ld, automatically so sending one along a war machine line can really cripple them).
Synergies: Word of Pain, Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma
Level 4: Cast on 4 dice, boost on 5
Level 2: Cast on 4 dice, boost on 5

5: Pit of Shades
Another one of the instant kill spells, this one is the least reliable though as it scatters off of the initial target, so while it is marginally easier to cast than the rest, it's also less predictable. It's also an I test, like Purple Sun and I is a generally higher stat than S aside from a few specific armies. That being said, it is always good to have an instant kill weapon in your arsenal, especially one that doesn't allow for saves of any kind. Be wary of the boosted version as while it expands the template to a large size, it also doubles the scatter distance, so you're more likely to miss the target completely (unless of course you're good at rolling the Hit!)
Synergies: Word of Pain, Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma
Level 4: cast on 4 dice, boost on 5
Level 2: cast on 4 dice, boost on 5

6: Okkam's Mindrazor
Some say it's the ultimate Shadow spell. I say it's not. Why do you ask? What have you found oh great and powerful Dalamar that the wisdom of the internetz missed? Well, it's rather simple. The spell is painfully obvious. While other #6 spells can be cast at any time, Mindrazor only affects a unit that's currently in combat, or is about to be in one. It's also very dice intensive, meaning it doesn't allow for many other spells to be cast in the same phase. In an average 7 die phase, if you want to cast Mindrazor... you'll have enough left for a reliable Miasma and that's it while instead you coule be casting both Enfeebling Foe and the Withering! Everyone with half a brain will see an incoming mindrazor and either save their dice for it, use their scroll on it, or simply let it go and not charge your unit on the next turn (which might work towards your plan sure, but it's a waste when other, cheaper spells can achieve the same effect. It is also often a waste against elves. T3 and paper armor makes little difference if you're being hit with S5 or S10, you will die either way.
Level 4: cast on 5 dice, boost on 6
Level 2: cast on 5 dice, boost on 6 (if you're feeling risky)

Overall Lore of Shadow can be potentially game changing lore. As an anectodal evidence I will give you my small unit of about 18 Executioners (back in the last book) get charged by 5 Blood Knights with a blenderlord vampire. Except the Blood Knights had their S reduced by 3 points and their WS reduced by about 2. There wasn't a single blood knight left standing and the vampire popped as they utterly failed to cause any sensible damage. There are a few missed spells that can be made to work with a bit of effort and planning (like Steed of Shadows) and a few that though their effects look amazing, are actually pretty underwhelming (like Mindrazor) Overall it's a good all around lore that you can't go wrong with with most types of armies. I would recommend it on a mounted sorceress though so you can move her around and not depend on boosted ranges of Enfeebling Foe and Withering, they get pretty hard to cast from far away (and a nice pendulum going through a gunline never hurts).

The Lore of Death

Lore Attribute: Life Leeching
Arguably one of the best lore attributes out there if not the best as it allows the caster to generate extra power dice, potentially casting spells for free, or even getting bonus dice. The issue I see here is that Lore of Death damaging spells are of a specific kind. All but one are single target, which limits the wounds they can cause per cast. So while Purple Sun can sometimes generate a boatload of power dice (say flying through a gutstar, doing 3 wounds per killed ogre), the other three damage spells are unlikely to do more than a couple wounds and generate even less power dice.

S: Spirit Leech
Despite being a signature, it's potentially the strongest spell in the lore, mainly because it is a signature and you can depend on always having it. Its short range is offset by the ability to boost it to pretty standard 24". Due to the statistic used, it's of course best when used by a level 4 wizard, or a wizard within the Inspiring Presence range (as according to the latest FAQ, Inspiring Presence does not modify Ld, but replaces it with General's). While aiming it at lord level characters is very tempting, I think the best targets for this spell are support characters like battle standard bearers and support wizards as well as monsters. Most monsters tend to have below average Ld, and if they happen to stray outside of Inspiring Presence range, they become easy pickings.
Level 4: cast on 2 dice, boost on 3
Level 2: cast on 2 dice, boost on 3

1: Aspect of the Dreadknight
It's not an amazing spell but can come in handy when fighting against fear causing armies (to prevent unfortunate failures) but it also works great when built into a leadership bomb list that abuses Shroud of Despar as every single test you can cause has a deadly cascading effect. On top of that the spell is silly easy to cast, so you can keep a single die for the end of the phase not to risk loss of concentration.
Synergies: Shroud of Despair
Level 4: cast on 2 dice, 1 if last spell, 2 if boosting
Level 2: cast on 2 dice, 1 if last spell, 3 if boosting

2: The Caress of Laniph
Another short range but rather painful spell. Just like Spirit Leech it allows you to pick out single models but unlike spirit leech its damage is based on the target's Strength. This makes it nearly useless against lone monsters but very handy against enemy wizards (even lord level) who tend to remain at minimum strength of the specific army. Especially good against the wizards that are allowed to wear armor as it ignores it entirely (but so does Spirit Leech). If you happen to reduce the target's S though, anything becomes fair game.
Synergies: Word of Pain, The Enfeebling Foe, Soulblight
Level 4: cast on 2 dice, 1 if last spell, 3 is boosting
Level 2: cast on 2 dice, 4 if boosting

3: Soulblight
This is an amazing spell mostly due to the range of its effect. -1 S and T doesn't sound as much but it's surprisingly powerful as when you pick your units, you expect to be able to depend on their statistics when S and T are among the most important ones in the game. This spell is made even better by the fact that Druchii have a guaranteed access to it in the form of Doomfire Warlocks and the boosted version of it can decide the game if cast at the right moment.
Synergies: Dweller's Below, The Caress of Laniph, The Fate of Bjuna
Level 4: cast on 2 dice, boost on 5
Level 2: cast on 3 dice, boost on 6

4: Doom and Darkness
This is Death magic's solution to steadfast blocks since even Ld7 steadfast becomes very risky. Best used to target those large units that are hard to break, but not very hard to beat in combat so really any horde or a stubborn unit will hate this spell. It also has a beautiful synergy with Shroud of Despair, helping to "kick-start" the cascade by lowering the Ld of the unit you expect to take the first test. Use this spell carefully as your opponent is likely to predict your plan and put a lot of effort behind not letting the spell through.
Synergies: Shroud of Despair, Final Transmutation, The Burning Head
Level 4: cast on 3 dice, boost on 4
Level 2: cast on 3 dice, boost on 4

5: The Fate of Bjuna
Like The Caress of Laniph, it's a spell to pick out single models but this time dependent on their Toughness. Soulblight comes to the rescue again by lowering the target's tougness for you. As it is rare for character models to have T higher than 5 (and often less) you should be causing about 2 wounds per cast on average. That is rather dangerous situation for any character as averages like to skew one way or another and it's a risk not many will take. Stupidity if the target survives is a nifty little bonus, especially if you also have access to Doom and Darkness.
Synergies: Soulblight, Doom and Darkness. The extremely short range of the spell and the inability to boost it is its only downfall
Level 4: cast on 4 dice
Level 2: cast on 4 dice

6: The Purple Sun of Xereus
Purple Sun, the spell that everybody hates, the spell that elves chuckle at. I test or die. Insanely powerful against some armies (Dwarfs, Ogres) nearly useless against others (Chaos Warriors, Elves). Its great power comes from its ability to cause massive damage and then regain the power dice used to cast it, making it a nearly free to cast spell (if cast successfully). It's ability to go through ward saves also makes it useful as a last ditch effort to kill some characters, but most of these tend to have a high I value regardless of race (I think even Dwarfs go up to I4 on their characters). That coupled with Look Out Sir! rolls and the fact that there are plenty of armies there with average I or higher makes this spell rather underwhelming for me... until you start throwing spells reducing I around that is!
Synergies: Word of Pain, Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma
Level 4: cast on 4 dice, boost on 6 and pray
level 2: cast on 5 dice, boost on 6 and pray harder!

Lore of Death, the lore of magic considered by the ETC players to be the most powerful out there and so good that it requires being comped to the point of becoming nearly useless. I dare to say they're really, really wrong. The lore's strength comes from the ability to hunt down characters, but also depends on the stats of those characters (so the stronger the character, the harder they are to kill). Short ranges of nearly all of the spells don't make the task of getting close to the target any easier forcing you to put your wizard in harm's way quite often so mobility is the key. At least a Dark Steed if no a Pegasus to give you the ability to get behind the unit with your chosen target and spam damaging spells onto them. It also doesn't hurt being able to position yourself well for a Purple Sun. Overall, I see the lore as an ok lore, but not if it's the only one you have. I think having Lore of Death as your single lore bottlenecks you badly into one area. If you take Death on a level 4, I would still recommend taking another level 2 caster, or the other way around, Death on a level 2 and a level 4 with a more universal lore.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
User avatar
Calisson
Corsair
Corsair
Posts: 8820
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Hag Graef

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Calisson »

MOD'S NOTE:
I had to delete some posts, in order to let Dalamar finish his thread in two successive posts.
Here there are, along with my apologies for having deleted them.

Entreri bloodletter wrote:Great write up! Very informative, I especially liked the part about Shroud of Darkness and all those extra opportunities to fail leadership tests. I hadn't thought about all of those other tests, pretty sure the enemy won't until its too late as well.

Looking forward to any other posts on the topic
Calisson wrote:For Dark, there is a specific issue: Tome of Furion.
It means that you can 100% reliably select 3 spells, the two sig and any of the 6 regular spells.
That makes this Lore the only one where you can actually plan for a combo, even in tournaments.
The best is that this combo can be adapted to your opponent!

Example: you plan to get the Ld bomb with #4 Shroud of despair. You find out that the army you face is HE, rerolling all failed Ld against you. No big deal, change your plans and take #6 Black Horror instead.
But my battle experience is lacking to analyse such possibility.
strategem wrote:great read like always and added to the bookmarks. Cant wait for the other laws to be added :)

Edit: Also remember that shroud of dispear will cancell out the HE re-rolls making them use the first roll, so it still helps quite a bit
Dalamar wrote:Shroud of Despair has no effect on High Elf Valor of the Ages. Kharibdyss on the other hand would prevent them re-rolling panic fear and terror tests in base contact with it.
End of deleted posts.
Calisson.




Dalamar wrote:Kharibdyss on the other hand would prevent them re-rolling panic fear and terror tests in base contact with it.
Which rule/FAQ says that? AFAIK, only "to hit" re-re-rolls cancel out each other.
For Ld test, my understanding is:
- initial Ld test passed, K-beast makes it reroll, and no further reroll allowed
- initial Ld test failed, Valour of Ages makes it reroll, and no further reroll allowed.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Dalamar »

When you encounter re-rolls of successes and re-rolls of failures in the same situation, you don't re-roll at all, it's not limited to to-hit rolls.

If you are forced to re-roll regardless of the result (re-roll if successful and re-roll if failure) then there's no point to re-roll in the first place.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
User avatar
General Kael
Shade
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:33 pm
Location: The land of chill (canada)

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by General Kael »

I think you do get re-rolls, bet never more than once.
And there is a point, that it takes a bit of randomness out of the rolls example: If you have a low LD and pass your test then k-beast makes you re-roll(not likely to pass twice), and if you have high LD and you fail then High elves re-roll(not likely to fail twice). So it helps take out those statistical outliers.
User avatar
Calisson
Corsair
Corsair
Posts: 8820
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Hag Graef

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Calisson »

Dalamar wrote:When you encounter re-rolls of successes and re-rolls of failures in the same situation, you don't re-roll at all, it's not limited to to-hit rolls.
Dou you have a written rule stating that (BRB page number, FAQ, anything substantial)?
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
Setomidor
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1294
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 8:12 am
Location: Umeå, Sweden

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Setomidor »

General Kael wrote:I think you do get re-rolls, bet never more than once.
And there is a point, that it takes a bit of randomness out of the rolls example: If you have a low LD and pass your test then k-beast makes you re-roll(not likely to pass twice), and if you have high LD and you fail then High elves re-roll(not likely to fail twice). So it helps take out those statistical outliers.


I disagree, it has no effect on the outcome at all (not even statistical) as the rolls have no internal correlation (you're as likely to roll high or low on every roll of two dice). In the case of Valor of Ages against the Kharibdyss you could roll the first LD test in a dice cup, agree with your opponent that regardless of the outcome of the roll you would have to re-roll it, and then just roll again without looking at the dice. Hence, you might as well agree that the first roll is pointless and just skip to the second roll right away.

Calisson wrote:
Dalamar wrote:When you encounter re-rolls of successes and re-rolls of failures in the same situation, you don't re-roll at all, it's not limited to to-hit rolls.
Dou you have a written rule stating that (BRB page number, FAQ, anything substantial)?


Need no rule, just common sense ;)
User avatar
Red...
Generalissimo
Posts: 3750
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Baltimore

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Red... »

Great post Dalamar! I've been convinced into playing a match tomorrow against a high elf opponent where he uses high magic and I use dark, so this is invaluable. I have to say, I've not been impressed with dark versus other lores, but your write up helps a bit. One thing worth noting is that on black horror if you roll a misfire then the vortex begins on your sorceress's head and scatters randomly. It may be best to cast by a lady on a pegasus rather than from a girl leading a unit in the middle of your army to avoid the risk of annihilating your own forces if you get a 1 in 6 unlucky roll. If cast from a pegasus in the middle, or just behind/beside the enemy, if it goes wrong then it will still likely hit them and avoid you.

Ps, it's more fun to reroll in a case of re rolling failures and successes, even if statistically it's unnecessary, and the aim of war hammer is to have fun, so reroll away!
"While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. So answer the question."

Don't be a munchkin?

Image

I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
User avatar
Gerner
Noble
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:28 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Gerner »

@Red: You also use the Pegasus Strength to test, because it is higher. :)
User avatar
General Kael
Shade
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:33 pm
Location: The land of chill (canada)

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by General Kael »

Setomidor wrote:I disagree, it has no effect on the outcome at all (not even statistical) as the rolls have no internal correlation (you're as likely to roll high or low on every roll of two dice). In the case of Valor of Ages against the Kharibdyss you could roll the first LD test in a dice cup, agree with your opponent that regardless of the outcome of the roll you would have to re-roll it, and then just roll again without looking at the dice. Hence, you might as well agree that the first roll is pointless and just skip to the second roll right away.



I don't get how it doesn't alter the chances of getting extreme rolls. If you break a unit and they need double 1's to pass, and they roll it that's pretty lucky. Bu what are the chances that if you make him reroll it he will get double 1's a second time?
User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Dalamar »

Correct, I didn't write it because Black Horror follows vortex rules with one slight exception (distance is multiplied by caster's level instead of blanket 3 like Purple Sun). I honestly don't see a reason to keep a dark sorceress in a unit, she's far better off on a steed or pegasus.
Only time I would take a sorceress in a unit would be with Shadow magic and dagger, as that's a rather pricy lore to cast (and Dark is really easy for a level 4)

@Calisson
I use the to-hit FAQ, until now, there was no situation that I'm aware of that forced re-rolls of successful Ld tests (so Kharibdyss is the first) which made the FAQ unnecessary. But look at it from a mathematical point of view. If you are forced to re-roll your first roll, regardless of the result, then what's the point of having to re-roll in the first place? Just accept the first result and mathematically you have the same outcome.

@General Kael
The chances of him getting double 1 the second time are exactly the same as getting it the first time. 1/36 or .027%. The first roll has absolutely no effect on the second roll. It may make you feel better that you forced a re-roll that made the opponent break from combat, but mathematically there's no difference (because if his first roll was a failure, he would get to re-roll that and potentially get the needed double 1)
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
User avatar
General Kael
Shade
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:33 pm
Location: The land of chill (canada)

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by General Kael »

Thanks Dalamar I get what your saying every die roll has the same chance of getting that double 1's.
I'm no math whiz so if you would indulge me a little. If you needed to roll double 1's twice in a row on 2 D6 would that be a 1/72 chance? And if you went to extremes like 10 rerolls would it not be harder to roll double 1's ten times in a row?
Thanks if you take the time to explain it just seems weird to me :oops:
User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Dalamar »

A chance to roll a double 1 followed by another double one is even less likely than that. It's more along the lines of 1/1296 which broke my calculator but I believe it's about .1296% (so a tenth of a percent chance to get two snake eyes in a row)

It would matter if we were only talking about re-rolling successes. But since we're talking about re-rolling both successes and failures, it will look something like this:

Make a first roll:
36/36 or 100% chance that you will *have to* re-roll it.
Make second roll:
1/36 or 2.7% chance to succeed
35/56 or 97.2% chance to fail

As you can see, the first roll is irrelevant to the second roll. Now if your opponent didn't have the ability to re-roll failures (say thanks to Shroud of Despair to keep it on topic ;) ):
1/36 or 2.7% chance to succeed on the first roll, forced to re-roll it due to Kharibdyss
1/36 or 2.7% to succeed on the second roll...
It becomes 1/1296 or .1296% total chance of suceeding that break test. or 99.8704% chance of the enemy breaking
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
User avatar
General Kael
Shade
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:33 pm
Location: The land of chill (canada)

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by General Kael »

OK I get it now, thanks. :) Because you don't need to pass the first roll to pas your test, it doesn't matter what you roll first.
Sorry for side tracking things.
User avatar
Red...
Generalissimo
Posts: 3750
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Baltimore

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Red... »

Sure - but its fun to see what you get on the first dice roll, because if the second is different then whoever got screwed can feign being miffed whereas whoever came out better can have a good cackle ;)

Imagine the leadership testing player's look of delight as they rolled a double 1 on the first roll, then horror as they roll a six and a five on the second... :) Similarly, imagine the opposing player's look of delight as the testing player rolled a double six on the first roll, then their look of glumness when he rolled double one on the second....

We play Dark Elves, and so abide by a basic golden rule: rolling more dice is always better...
"While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. So answer the question."

Don't be a munchkin?

Image

I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
User avatar
Calisson
Corsair
Corsair
Posts: 8820
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Hag Graef

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Calisson »

Setomidor wrote:
General Kael wrote:I think you do get re-rolls, bet never more than once.
And there is a point, that it takes a bit of randomness out of the rolls example: If you have a low LD and pass your test then k-beast makes you re-roll(not likely to pass twice), and if you have high LD and you fail then High elves re-roll(not likely to fail twice). So it helps take out those statistical outliers.


I disagree, it has no effect on the outcome at all (not even statistical) as the rolls have no internal correlation (you're as likely to roll high or low on every roll of two dice). In the case of Valor of Ages against the Kharibdyss you could roll the first LD test in a dice cup, agree with your opponent that regardless of the outcome of the roll you would have to re-roll it, and then just roll again without looking at the dice. Hence, you might as well agree that the first roll is pointless and just skip to the second roll right away.

Calisson wrote:
Dalamar wrote:When you encounter re-rolls of successes and re-rolls of failures in the same situation, you don't re-roll at all, it's not limited to to-hit rolls.
Dou you have a written rule stating that (BRB page number, FAQ, anything substantial)?


Need no rule, just common sense ;)
Thanks, indeed, I was too rule mindset, and forgot maths and common sense.
Red... wrote:Sure - but its fun to see what you get on the first dice roll, because if the second is different then whoever got screwed can feign being miffed whereas whoever came out better can have a good cackle ;)
That's definitively how I would play it, and curse the maths!
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Dalamar »

Main post updated with Lore of Fire and I added a Synergies section for each spell where I will be listing other spells that work together well.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Entreri bloodletter
Assassin
Posts: 518
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 2:13 am

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Entreri bloodletter »

One thing that should be mentioned in regards to the Lore of Fire is using the Red Ruby Ring. Best used at the start of the magic phase to kick in the +D3 to cast from other spells. Good synergy on a lower level caster who can then cast a more powerful spell on the same target getting on average a total of +4 to cast - as good as any level 4.

I would only use a single die on it, if you fail only one is lost, if you succeed the enemy will probably let it go, giving you that extra oomph to cast the next spell. Even if they choose to dispel it, 1 pd is a good trade for 1 dd.

This idea is more effective on a low magic army, one with a single level two sorceress with a dispel scroll and the RRR still puts out decent damage for the cost. Add in a unit of Warlocks for extra synergy between spells, Soulblight first and then your fireballs become that much more powerful.
User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Dalamar »

Good point, I simply want to keep this guide to spells alone without inclusion of magic items.
Indeed though, Ruby Ring is a nice thing to have even on a level 2 fire scroll caddy.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Kargan daemonclaw
Highborn
Posts: 734
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Kargan daemonclaw »

Interesting discourse but the discussion seems to focus on what the lores do to the enemy rather than what they do for your army. Lore choice will be influenced by overall strategy and army selection.

If Dark Elves are a glass cannon, do you take magic that makes them more cannon or magic that makes them less glass.

Life looks like a great lore, especially if taking a monster heavy army.
Beast magic looks great especially the signature wild form and the one that boosts characters attacks and strength.
Celestial magic looks great for cavalry armies with the ability to reroll ones and comet to discourage castling armies, dropping an asteroid into the middle of a dwarf or empire castle could be just the business to get them out of their holes.
Death has the potential to be great, the combo of soulblight and doom and darkness is always great. Now with shroud of dispair blocking access to the generals leadership, it makes the death snipe spirit leach even better for aking out those chimeras.
Llight looks like the lore to make out armie even more cannon, WS and I 10, or time warp would be great on just about any unit but especially executioners that will now be an auto include in almost all armies. The lore is also great against daemons and undead which are common in the meta locally.
User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Dalamar »

You may have noticed that the lores so far are Dark and Fire, which mostly deal with affecting the enemy. Wait until I get to Life, Heavens, Life or Beasts and there will be more about spells that affect your own army.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Kargan daemonclaw
Highborn
Posts: 734
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Kargan daemonclaw »

I had noticed and I think Dark and fire make a good combo for a lvl4/lvl2.
Canadianguy
Dark Rider
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:25 pm

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Canadianguy »

It can be an extremely efficient combo with our bonus plus using ruby ring to get the fire bonus. Make the 4th levelM orathi and it becomes extremely efficient!
User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Dalamar »

I find Fire to be seriously underwhelming lore but I try to do the writeup as objectively as possible.

If you need a small magic missile for dealing with chaff I believe Burning Gaze from light is better as it gives you access to a more versatile lore where the second spell can be actually really good one as opposed to "another bunch of S4 hits"
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Canadianguy
Dark Rider
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:25 pm

Re: The School of the Arcane

Post by Canadianguy »

I agree it isn't the stronget lore but there are some very good synergies. Fireball, rhuin, flame cage and cascade when paired with the ring can really give a level 2 some easy to cast quality spells. As well, they each benifit msu lists and shooting lists very well which are strong options for us. That said I would likely only try it in a few specific builds. As stated above if you take morathi with it you can default to miasma, lash, doombolt and get 3 very good easy to cast spells. Between those 2 mages you could have 6 spells of which half could be single diced in a low dice turn as well as the ruby ring.
The builds i like this in are very msu/cav focussed with max rbts and have 2 to 3 characters on flying mounts or steeds. They act like little wolf packs, isolate the prey, focus fire and highly targetd cc while keeping other units in place ie double flee, cage, cascade, miasma on movement.
Post Reply