Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:28 pm



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 265 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 11  Next
Dark Magic: Innate Spell 
Author Message
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:41 pm
Posts: 5170
Location: Putting needles into people.
Our cousins get an innate magic spell: WE Tree Singing, HE Drain Magic.

What should Dark Magic get?

Now I will be monitoring this thread. Please be careful in your posts. No posting spells that would be WAY TOO POWERFUL.

Also bear in mind this theme: Dark Magic is deadly, is psychological in many ways, offensive, and subtle as well. Thus a magic missile type spell is not specifically in character with an innate spell. Please respect the theme.

Finally CONSIDER other people's ideas as well. Don't just post your own idea and not evaluate anyone else's ideas. Those kind of people are selfish and non contributing, and I will likely delete their posts and send it back to them "just because", unless it is a really good idea.

Go at 'er, hoss.

_________________
While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."


Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:00 pm
Profile
Hunter Of The Night
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 4:17 pm
Posts: 2152
Location: England
Post 
Well having looked at what the High and Wood Elves get (not actually too sure about Tree Singing though, I don't the rules for it. Does it allow you to make woods bigger or create woods?) We need a spell that will help the army in some way rather than just a spell that will affect one character etc. A spell that focuses on increasing our magical power, our speed and movement, our combat or our shooting should be ideal. Personally I would like to see something that affects our magic. Simply allowing us more power with our spells etc. Here's my idea.


Dark Ritual (or some other fitting name) Difficulty 5+

The Sorceress captures a strong gust of Dark Magic and distributes it over the Dark Elf army providing magical power for all Sorceresses present.

Add D3+1 power dice to the Dark Elf player's pool.


Ok it allows us more power to cast with. I thought about D3 but people will probably just use up dice to cast this only to get the dice back (a total waste of time.) So I thought about D6 but this seemed a bit too powerful as all Dark Magic wielding Sorceresses know it. Therefore I settled on D3+1 meaning if you use 2 dice to cast it with (what a lot would use IMO) the minimum you get out of it is those 2 dice.

Thoughts?


Last edited by /\\//\ on Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:22 pm
Profile
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:35 pm
Posts: 292
Location: Praggaroth
Post 
Nice Idea Only the name... I'll prefer Dark ritual. Does somebody knows from which game I have It? Its a long time ago but I remember It :)

_________________
Give me more Druchii and I'll give you more blood


Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:32 pm
Profile
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:41 pm
Posts: 5170
Location: Putting needles into people.
Post 
/\\//\'s post is an example of a good idea. Thank you Malda for contributing to it in a good way.

_________________
While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."


Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:59 pm
Profile
Manipulator of the Masses
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 2:38 am
Posts: 3074
Location: A cheery little corner
Post 
I like the concept of it, it would definately help make a magic heavy DE army (since we lack the bound items), and do it differently than a lot of magic heavy armies. My only fear is it could become easily exploited; since you can cast if effectivly with 1 die (66% chance), you can quickly generate a sizable pool of die without having to dip heavily into Arcane and Enchanted items (my last GT Army could possible go from 9 to 15, which means 4-5 spells on average, as opposed to 3-4). My only though would be to change it to a flat 2 die, but that looses the randomness of most spells, but will balance it a lot more (also lesen huge impact it can potentail have).

Just my thought in the end.

_________________
We stand now on the precipice of something monumental and perhaps even capable of boggling the mind in its myriad potentials and possibilities. Try not to drool too much…


Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:12 pm
Profile
Hunter Of The Night
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 4:17 pm
Posts: 2152
Location: England
Post 
Good point Drakken. Perhaps 5+ to cast is more in order (maybe even 6.)


Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:13 pm
Profile
Trainee Warrior

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:26 pm
Posts: 42
Post 
Malda wrote:
Nice Idea Only the name... I'll prefer Dark ritual. Does somebody knows from which game I have It? Its a long time ago but I remember It :)



Are you talking about magic(the gathering)? The cad is very similar to the spell.


Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:25 pm
Profile
Manipulator of the Masses
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 2:38 am
Posts: 3074
Location: A cheery little corner
Post 
Wow, nothing like Blinking and find myself answered. But yeah, a Higher Difficulty would balance it out. The problem becomes if you can't cast it successfully on 1 die, theres a very good chance you accomplish nothing, which adds time to a game for no reason. And I also just noted my math is wrong since I was going off a 4+ casting for some reason :oops: .... You actually have it a 5+ a I just can't seem to read, though I would suggest a 6+. 6+ is 1 Die Possbile, 2 Die almost guarenteed, like all the low Dark spells it has a risk if you save die for bigger spells meaing your balancing precariously between a really scary magic phase and an almost non-exsisitent magic phase.

Note to self: Next time actually read the number, and remember the correct number when using the reply button.

_________________
We stand now on the precipice of something monumental and perhaps even capable of boggling the mind in its myriad potentials and possibilities. Try not to drool too much…


Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:28 pm
Profile
Hunter Of The Night
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 4:17 pm
Posts: 2152
Location: England
Post 
Sorry it was 4+ but I edited it to 5+ on your suggestion. :lol:


Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:35 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 11:13 pm
Posts: 1071
Post 
Warp Magic- 6+/8+/10+

The Sorceress floods the area around the enemy spellcasters with raw magical energy, making their magic violent and unpredictable.

This spell can be cast at three different levels. Choose a level before you attempt to cast the spell. The spell may be cast on a single enemy Wizard within 24" of the caster and may be cast into close combat. If successful, until the start of the caster's next magic phase, reduce rolls of 2, 3 or less, or 4 or less (depending on the spell level) to 1 before calculating the total result of the roll. This may cause the enemy to miscast, even if 2 or more 6s are rolled.

Level: 1... 2... 3
Casting Value: 6+... 8+... 10+
Dice Rolls Reduced to 1: 2's... 2's & 3's... 2's, 3's, & 4's


There has been discussion on a spell/item to make enemies miscast easier, and it fits the fluff of being cruel and manipulative.

_________________
Lock up your children, shut all windows tight.
The Witch Elves are hunting for victims tonight.
When old hags do knock at your door, you must hide,
Your death is the gift sought by Khaine's pretty brides.


Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:44 pm
Profile
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:41 pm
Posts: 5170
Location: Putting needles into people.
Post 
/\\// wrote:
Good point Drakken. Perhaps 5+ to cast is more in order (maybe even 6.)


The thing is people who use one dice to cast it will easily find it dispelled by the opponent. So I like the original.

_________________
While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."


Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:02 pm
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 2:27 am
Posts: 662
Location: United States
Post 
Heres a spell I thought of...

Treachery___________________Difficulty 4+

A whisper leaves the sorceress' lips as dark thoughts of betrayal overcome the target. This spell can be cast on any single character or model within line of sight, even if in combat, making it possible to target such things as a warmachine crew member or a character in a unit. The model must take a leadership test. If passed the model is unaffected by Treachery. If failed the target immediately takes a hit with a strength value equal to how much they failed the leadership test by. In addition if the target struck by treachery is still alive at the start of your opponents next turn he/she must make a single attack against a friendly model in base contact, chosen by the caster. This spell does not effect targets immune to psychology.


Its not perfect I know but I really think its a base spell that really suits the feel of the druchii, being treacherous themselves.

_________________
"Do unto others before they do unto you."


Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:49 pm
Profile
Master of the Red Legion
Master of the Red Legion
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 1:06 pm
Posts: 7037
Location: Land of Chill
Post 
langmann wrote:
/\\// wrote:
Good point Drakken. Perhaps 5+ to cast is more in order (maybe even 6.)


The thing is people who use one dice to cast it will easily find it dispelled by the opponent. So I like the original.


Well, the thing here is that its normally a good thing to take one power die and have it remove one dispel die in most games, esp those that are magic heavy, since there are usually more PDs that DDs. I like the idea too, but think that even 5+ is not enough. 6+ would be better, making it almost a requirement to use two dice to get the spell off.

Also, I think the 0 spell should be a spell that can be used by a sorc of any level. Drain magic, for example, is still useful to a L1 mage, and similarly, the WE spell is useful for their L1s. However, there would be little or no point for an L1 to have the above PD generation spell since they'd only have one other spell to begin with and can only use 2 dice to cast it (and already have 3 at least). Yes, there is the possibility that it could be used to get enough PDs to dispel a remain in play spell, but I don't think that's a very common occurance.

I had the idea earlier of moving the word of pain spell to be our 0 spell and then putting some other type of offensive spell in its place. Yes, its expensive to cast, but even a L1 has a good chance of making it work and its a spell that has a limited yet useful effect, and its one of those things you'd expect a sorceress to keep in mind (as by fluff it is only the uttereing of a name). So that's my idea for now.

_________________
_
Image
The storm is coming...
Are you ready?


Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:51 pm
Profile WWW
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:36 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Sitting in a dark dank tower plotting the downfall of the civilized races occasionaly going Mwahaha
Post 
The Hag’s curse 7+
Creates a singles dice reroll which the DE can force the opponent to make in that DE turn. Note that every dice must be rerolled.

First of all I’m not entirely sure how much this spell should be, I reckoned that 10+ should be somewhat accurate since the forced reroll only works in your own turn, although this could of course be changed to d3 single dice rerolls (I just wanted it to be a little more different than being a simple inverted Second Sign of Amul). I also know that this spell requires a fairly high lev sorc. but I was afraid that lowering the cost would make the spell overpowered. (The DE don't need overpowered spells like certain other feable and weak races)

I think that some evil voodoo seems in character for a race which prides it self on having cruel and unusual ways of killing people. The fact that it works in your own turn makes it potentially useful for helping a charge hit extra hard or muck-up some armor saves.

Creating extra spell dice or wrecking opponent spell casting is already done by other armies and some evil mojo would add some cruel flavor to the DE. When facing the DE enemies should feel the evil doings of DE magic users forcing their movements and wrecking the discipline of the rank and file do to the evil spirits in the air.

_________________
Hamsters rule


Last edited by Unholy_hamster on Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:42 am
Profile
Slave on the Altar

Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:09 am
Posts: 3
Post 
I love name Dark Ritual...very DE...and like the idea of giving Dark Elves innate spell, just like others...elves are supposed to be a "magic race"...how about the following with the name Dark Ritual...the sorceress slits her wrists and inflicts a wound on an enemy wizard anywhere on the table...however, upon performing this Dark Ritual, the sorceress loses 1 wound, no armour save...4+/1 wound 6+/2 wounds...let me know!


Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:49 am
Profile
Noble

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:15 am
Posts: 475
Location: back from the sea
Post 
Harm Cast on a 4+, range is 24
Cast on a single model visible to the caster, even if a char in a unit. The target sufferes a hit at a strength one more than the targets toughness, up to a maximum of stregth 6.

This spell is like a combination of rule of burning iron and manbane poison. i think as an agressive race we should get and agressive base spell, and this one could be used to "snipe" things like enemy characters and skaven weapon teams, but not in the way like a heavens wizard can.


Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:35 am
Profile
Dark Rider
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 6:46 am
Posts: 147
Post 
ilike the harms cast but isnt the complexity a lil bit low?i would say 5 or even 6+ to be cast, because ull kill chars pretty fast...

the Hags curse is vERY fluffy thou ilike it a lot :mrgreen: but still ithink its too difficult(for level one?almost impossible and as ull get it automatically it should be around 7 mayb and 1D3(anyway 2nd sign of Amul is at 5 or even 6+??))

treachery... really original idea- ithink

dark Ritual is afine idea BUT ithink it is very similar to other spells thou...

_________________
All living beings shall be put to slavery and governed by the fearful Druchii


Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:56 am
Profile
Noble
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:43 am
Posts: 400
Location: Karond Kar
Post 
I suscribe the idea behind the Dark Ritual. Only that I'd make it 5+ to cast, and if successful it would give 1D6 magic die (sp?) for that magic phase only.

I know that it may sound too good, but think that:

a) In order to cast it, you'll have to spend at least two die, and you may end up getting to have less die (like the old Chaos Winds spell in 5th ed was) than you had at the start, which is rather risky; I think it is pretty much how Dark Magic works, under the fluff at least. Also, most if not all spells work under "1D6" and not one that I can remember works with 1D3. Just to keep things simple and straightforward ;).

b) We don't get rerolls in any of our magic lists; however, most other armies have access to Portent of Phar (sp?), which is pretty effective for its cost, and easier to cast.

c) Since Dark Magic is supposed to be devastating, I think getting more die to roll is key, and would help to not take the darkstar cloak (anybody not taking it in most of his games?). Also, having more die is limited by the fact that Dark Magic is pretty short ranged, so I think it would balance out nicely.

d) It gives us a chance to steal some dispel die from our opponent (since he would be pretty stupid if he didn't try to dispel it), like all other elvish armies can do. Why not us? :) Only that is worth giving a try to this spell. We win anyway we look at it. :)

_________________
Watch your steps, my friend, for your way up is almost as fast as your way down, at the whim of the Witch King


Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:53 am
Profile
Noble
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 8:27 am
Posts: 405
Location: italy
Post 
Yes it is good; it gives more power for our destructive spells, and it is unpredictable as chaos is :twisted:

_________________
i'm what i'm, that's what i'm!
www.utenti.lycos.it/ritornodelre


Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:01 am
Profile
Shade

Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:14 pm
Posts: 111
Post 
The dark ritual is a very good idea and well in theme. If anybody remembers the old spell (which has a history far longer than just last edition, btw) this power was always highly erratic. The sorceress taps into the very fabric of the chaos dimension to unleash terrible power upon her foes. This is of course very dangerous but possibliy highly rewarding.

If we get this spell to reflect both ends of the spectrum then i think we'll get it right.

Just from the top of my head something along these lines perhaps:

"If succesfully cast, roll a d6. On a roll of 2-5 the sorceress gains AVAs 1d3+1 power dice. On a 6 the sorceress gains 6 powerdice but on a 1 the terrible powers she invoked lash back on her, hitting her with a strength 10 hit for 1d3 wounds.

The gained power dice may be used like a power stone (even a level 1 sorceress may use them all) but can still give irr. force (as opposed to a power stone)."

I don't know, i'm not overly happy with my own thoughts here but i think the spell should somehow be more unstable, granting high rewards if lucky but also grave consequences if things go wrong.

Regards
Zorn

_________________
This is the future.
The dead shall outnumber the living, and those that remain shall be dragged in chains to the pits of Zharr to toil for the greater glory of Hashut.

And all will be blessed Darkness.

Hashut! Vorgrund! Zharr-Naggrund!


Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:57 am
Profile
Noble
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 8:27 am
Posts: 405
Location: italy
Post 
I agree totally with zorn, the spell should somehow be more unstable, like in the old ed.

_________________
i'm what i'm, that's what i'm!
www.utenti.lycos.it/ritornodelre


Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:06 am
Profile
Master of the Red Legion
Master of the Red Legion
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 1:06 pm
Posts: 7037
Location: Land of Chill
Post 
Well, I'm not exactly fond of having the 0 spell have the real ability to go our and kill my sorceress. Chances aer you will use the spell once per turn, meaning 6 or so times in a game. Thus, you will likely roll that 1 once (or at least the odds are good) and when you roll for D3 wounds, you are likely going to kill her. Indeed, you only have a 1/3 chance to keep an L1/2 alive. :shock: That's not good...

_________________
_
Image
The storm is coming...
Are you ready?


Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:09 pm
Profile WWW
Druchii Archangel
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2003 5:00 am
Posts: 1699
Location: Somewhere Kicking Butt with DE
Post 
After reading the posts so far i'm in favour of the folloing:-

1. Vorchild's idea of word of pain (but needs thinking what spell replaces it in the Dark arts list)

2. Dark Ritual (gains d3+1 power dice) potentially powerful but at a risk (this should be 6+)

3. Chillwind being moved to auto spell and the Dark ritual being first of the dark lore...

BTW we have that spell last ed. its power of chaos if some of you remember...

_________________
Seraphlaw

"HA! What damage can a DRUCHII do?" - Famous Last Words


Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:51 pm
Profile
Highborn

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:03 am
Posts: 682
Location: Danish
Post 
Vorchild wrote:
Well, I'm not exactly fond of having the 0 spell have the real ability to go our and kill my sorceress. Chances aer you will use the spell once per turn, meaning 6 or so times in a game. Thus, you will likely roll that 1 once (or at least the odds are good) and when you roll for D3 wounds, you are likely going to kill her. Indeed, you only have a 1/3 chance to keep an L1/2 alive. :shock: That's not good...


That is only if he lets it get through his magic defense, every single turn.
If he does you will be rewarded by 18 power dices and a S10hit in a 6 turn game.

I like the idea, allthough it might still need a little tweaking.

When i read the suggestion I got inspired, I am not usually for adding different special rules, but here goes nothing...

I think that it could be really cool if we could get our sorceresses to work together in a coven. So on his own he would be fairly normal, but the more you put together, the more powerfull they would get.

The Coven(not a spell, but a special rule)

A suggestion could be to remove the normal +1 we get as DE magic users, and to replace it all DE mages within 6" of another mage gets +1 for every mage within the range.
Thus if you pack together a group of mages, they would shatter the enemy through raw magical force. They would very quickly burn through the toughest magic defense. (Just imagine a Lvl4 and three lv2s, all getting +3 to their casting roll).
This is a great advantage, but in the mean time having all you're mages in a single place is also quite a liability.

There are though several problems that makes this solution a bad one. First it encourages people to go magic heavy or none at all, that is a bad thing.
If people just stayed at 2-3 mages I don't think it would be a problem, but if they went all the way it would be far to powerfull.
A solution could be to make the maximum possible bonus be +2 to the casting roll, thus in a countering kind of way encouraging people to stay away from 4 mages.
I still think the temptation to go magic heavy would be to great.


Channel 4/5/6+ (I don't know how har it should be to cast, but i lean towards 5+)

Another suggestion along the same line of thought, could be a range increaser. It should have a range of 6", and could target any friendly mage apart from the caster. The spell should remain in play as long as the caster stays within 6" of the affected mage, if they end a phase more than 6" apart it would be dispelled immediately.

The effect would be to add 6" to the maximum range of the spell, for every mage within 6" of the targeted mage.

I really like this one because it is not overpowering at all, and fits well in the character of the army. To some extent it would, give us the range we normally miss with our spells, though if you rely on getting the spell through you're opponent could just dispell that spell and leave the rest out of range.
A version where it isn't dependent on the amount of mages could be to throw it on a 4/6/9 and makin it add 6"/12"/18" to the range.

The final possibility, would be to make a spell cast at 5/7/9 a range of 6" and has to target a sorceress within 6".
The effect would be to add +2/+4/+6 to the next casting roll of the mage.

Just a disclaimer towards the last suggestion, it hasn't been thought through at all, so I am not at all sure about how well it would work.


The one I like the most is the channeling that becomes more powerfull the more mages you have within 6", just to let you know :D

I would just like to thank anyone who took their time and read through this huge post, and at the same time apologise for letting it get this big ;)

Asger

_________________
100% grumpiest in the universe!

Have you heard about the most ambitious Warhammer project attempted to date? For details, check the ETC homepage; www.abfab.net


Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:54 pm
Profile
Beastmaster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:19 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Croatia,Zagreb
Post 
Easy! D6 S D6+1...something like red fire....

_________________
If a man hasn't found something to die for, he isn't fit to live.


Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:12 pm
Profile ICQ
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.   [ 265 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 11  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software