The Slave Topic - All Slave Topics Go here

R4v3n · Post by **R4v3n** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:39 am

dark elves cant hav slaves.

if we did we would have a horde unit, hich practically everyone would take, making us a horde army.
we are not a horde army.
MSU/MSE is what we do best, not horde.

Dimreapa · Post by **Dimreapa** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:25 am

They've been tried out before, in a citidel journal in 5th edition - they really didn't work out.

The rules could be there for them to use, but I really don't think it fits the style, unless something devious was done with it's rules.

Sorry if this topic is old btw, forgot to look...

don't worry its a sticked topic ~ VM

Kargan daemonclaw · Post by **Kargan daemonclaw** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:23 pm

Historically slaves were used in battle but had to be shackled to prevent them from running away. This made them more of a terrain feature than a warrior.

If the slaves hate and fear the DE that much what is to stop them from turning on their masters as soon as they get weapons?

If you want a slave unit it would likely have really bad stats, no armour and maybe a spear. Why would you want low quallity units like that potentially panicing your DE.

BY the time you have bought a DOW slave unit like Beorge Bear struck, to represent drugged combat slaves they cost the same as a DE spearelf.

There was a story about DE using drugged slaves to defeat an Elven force invading one of their cities. I think it was Eltarions original invasion. This looks like a desparate defence strategy when the city was in danger of being over runs and the slaves being freed. Not an offensive strategy for taking on raids.

Dragging a buch of low utility units around one battles / raids in the old world sounds really unlikely.

Opera of death · Post by **Opera of death** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:10 am

A small unit, about 5 figures strong, that rushes about like a Goblin Fanatic, but has poor combat stats, or perhaps acts like a swarm, could represent a small number of slaves, chained together, drugged to frenzy and pointed toward the enemy to disrupt their attack. It could even be a unit add-on, again a little like Night Goblin Fanatics.

Lordofthenight · Post by **Lordofthenight** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:24 am

Something I'm surprised no-one has suggested...

Leave the slaves weaponless, and next to useless in combat. However, give them the 'Life is Cheap' Skaven rule, and allow Dark Elf units to target them while in combat.

It'd be a similar use to how Skaven use their slaves as well, though they're even less likely to do damage.

Malekith-aenarion · Post by **Malekith-aenarion** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:32 am

Skaven slaves dont do damage, you shoot your ratling guns/warpfire throwers/warp lightning into the slaves when they get into combat and hope to take down about 1 enemy for every few slaves you lose, not something the druchii would reduce themselves to doing as slaves are so profitable. Also the druchii wouldn't really fight side by side with a lesser race they captured, would they?

Lordofthenight · Post by **Lordofthenight** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:12 pm

I see no reason why they wouldn't use them, just because they're a 'lesser race'. As a lesser race, they're there solely to die to furthur the druchii. They've fought with Chaos, who I'm sure would also be seen as a lesser race.

Fingol23 · Post by **Fingol23** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:33 pm

What about to prevent DEs becoming a horde army you make them an option for an unmounted beastmaster.

Beastmaster Equipment:
0-3 slave groups
WS BS S T A W I LD SV
1 1 1 3 3 3 1 N/A none

Special Rules: Swarm, Chained (same as braindead), if the beastmaster dies the slaves run off, the beastmaster follows the same rules as skaven packmasters.

What do you think? !eek!

Malekith-aenarion · Post by **Malekith-aenarion** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:55 am

im not sure im reading your thing right but would that mean they are a swarm with one wound? (0 is listed as the iniative for zombies btw)

Harabec · Post by **Harabec** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:22 am

im not sure im reading your thing right but would that mean they are a swarm with one wound? (0 is listed as the iniative for zombies btw)

The numbers are misalighned. Is listed as 1 wound with n/a for I.

Malekith-aenarion · Post by **Malekith-aenarion** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:48 am

Bloodfire · Post by **Bloodfire** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:23 pm

In the 5th edition army book for the Dark Elves, the Dark Elf time line states

Quote from 5th Edition Dark Elf army book
'1122: The High Elf punitive expedition to Naggaroth is massacred by the Dark Elves, aided by a screaming horde of drugged slave warriors'.

So shouldn't we have a unit of frenzied slaves on our side?

Archatheron · Post by **Archatheron** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:12 pm

Malekith-Aenarion wrote:Skaven slaves dont do damage, you shoot your ratling guns/warpfire throwers/warp lightning into the slaves when they get into combat and hope to take down about 1 enemy for every few slaves you lose, not something the druchii would reduce themselves to doing as slaves are so profitable. Also the druchii wouldn't really fight side by side with a lesser race they captured, would they?

Heh, maybe if we got a bonus to rank piercing Bolt Thrower shots going into slave units...

Inertia: If the Bolt is shot at a unit of slaves in combat, and pierces at least 3 ranks before encountering the enemy, the Bolt does D3+(D3XExtra slave ranks pierced) wounds at strength 6, armor saves allowed. Enemy units that take casualties from this attack must take a Panic test, or break from combat immediatley.

But in general, Id say Im against slaves. I think the terrain features are the best representation.

Oh, and guys, remember, it doesnt matter if you dont think we should get slaves, this is the place to debate how to get them if we DO. IDEA forum.

Krille krokodille · Post by **Krille krokodille** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:30 am

The swarm idea is good. make them a normal swarm unit, call them drugged slaves. Poor stats, 0-1 unit and no additional special rules.

They would do great as a shield.

Keep it simple

Khel · Post by **Khel** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:50 am

They are only drugged for that special occasion, its not as though there gonna drug their profits and then send them screaming into battle, They would probably think this as Barbaric for a slave to actually fight under any banner of the druchii. Slaves are ment to be in pens, not on open field smelling fresh air. They should be working in the mines, chopping down acient tree's and other back breaking stuff. Slaves are a disrgace, why do you think we keep them in shackles and shove em in cages, so they stay there, and so they can work in our cities or where ever else is required. I seriously think of giving up on the druchii if they bring slaves into the army list. Anyway Hordes are ment to be a high amount of low strength attacks, not crippled old, ragged slaves!

Dam'rek · Post by **Dam'rek** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:54 am

I'm still not convinced that a slave unit would be realistic in a Dark Elf army. Slaves are almost never carried onto the battlefield and when they are it is under very strange circumstances.

Even then, having a slave unit as 0-1 and with terrible stats and no weapons. What could they do that warriors can't do ten times better?

Krille krokodille · Post by **Krille krokodille** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:34 am

"Oh shiz, they brought heavy cavalry! This raid is going to be tougher than I thougth! Give the slaves some drugs and send them to die..."

They are not there for fighting, so warriors do better. But warriors arent unbreakable like swarms.

The slave thing isnt important for me, but IF we should have a slave unit, it should be like swarm units.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:30 am

How about this?

Slaves
Pts per model: 2

M: 8
WS: 3
BS: 0
S: 1
T: 2
W: 1
I: 10
A: 3
Ld: 3

Special rules:

Doesn't affect DE units when fleeing or are wiped out.

Frenzy, wich they never lose

Fear controlled: Slaves are treated as an ordinary unit as long as they are within 12" of a DE unit with a US higher than 5 at the end of your turn. If not, roll a D6 and check:

1-2 The slaves see an oppurtunity to escape, and runs for their lives, directly towards the closest enemy unit(your opponents). If they reach the unit, they are removed from the table. If not, they are under control if your units move within 12" again. If they still are free, they continue their escape.

3-4 The slaves stay where they are, and do not move.

5-6 The slaves have been so tortured and plagued that they have gained a form of "slave mentality." The unit is so afraid of the punishment they would get if they are caught, that they move to the closest friendly unit(your unit) no matter the distance or if the unit has allready moved.

The slaves have been tortured beyond all sanity. When they are brought to battle, they are so mad and insane that they attack the units they are told to attack, even if the enemy wanted to save them. The slaves are frenzied, but attack with their bare hands.

Arisos · Post by **Arisos** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:06 pm

Slaves.... Well DOW has 2 nice options:)

Norse Marauders: frenzied drugged slaves

Duellists for a Bulletcatching screening unit

Draknir · Post by **Draknir** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:33 am

I can't understand why should we have a unit of slaves, why should they fight in a military formation, if they are not warriors? The Slave pack swarm thing is more realistic, as they are chained to thick pack.

How about these rules:

Unwillingly in battle:
The slavemasters whip the slaves to herd them to the enemy. One slavemaster can whip up to two slave swarms. The Slaves are Unbreakable as long as the slavemaster is within 6" of them. If the slavemaster is removed as a casualty, the swarm is no longer Unbreakable.

Living shields:
If you unite swarms into a bigger unit, say, 2-3 bases, they count as hard cover. In addition, if an enemy tries to shoot at DE unit that is behind the Slaves (-2 to hit) and misses, the slave unit takes the hits instead.

Also, IMO, they should be Core units, but would not count towards the minimum of Core troops.

Cornelius · Post by **Cornelius** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:37 am

I think it is a good idea, but maybe not as the swarm but something like Spirit Hosts.

Prince of arnheim · Post by **Prince of arnheim** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:23 pm

Isn't every list a slaver list in a way?

I see no need for anything other than rules for slaves.

The new flagellants boxed set has given me some good ideas.

The rules would work very similar to a combination of Witch Elves and Flagellants

Silas witchblade · Post by **Silas witchblade** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:47 pm

How about using slaves, not as a unit so to say, but an add-on to repeater X-bow units and they can be used as "defensive stakes". Units can charge from the front but will run into slave units which will allow the DE player the option to: A) stand and fire, since the slaves are insignificant meatshields anyway, or B) flee and setup elsewhere

Mnesthius · Post by **Mnesthius** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:50 am

what do people think about letting an army which fields a beastmaster "controll" a unit of... say 5 to 30 drugged slave warriors (im thinking of those used against Ulthuan in one of the historical invasions) the warriors could be frenzied by the drugs (so are oblivious to ANYTHING, including DE, enemy numbers, eachother) but must be controlled by the BM so the BM cant be mounted (that would mean he's not controlling anymore)

in short, they would be a hybrid of the hydra, fanatics and some of the other points mentioned (hope that all made sense)

EDIT: you can also deduct DE vp as a 'balance' mechanism, as the slaves are so valuable, and would make a slaving mission worthless if they all died, hence, -vp per model lost or something to that effect

Khel · Post by **Khel** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:31 am

It's a good idea Mnesthius. But it has all been explained before. Maybe not here, but you don't have to look far through the pages od D.net to see the many (and i mean many!) locked topics about slaves.