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Storm of Chaos and UK GW Tournaments Announcement 
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The Ancient One
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Having wondered about this issue I contacted GW. The text below, reproduced with permission, is the reply from them

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Exclusion of Storm of Chaos book from UK GW tournaments.

With the recent publication of White Dwarf 315 we’ve decided to take a look at what armies we allow in our Warhammer Doubles and Warhammer Grand Tournament events held at Warhammer World in Nottingham.

We’ve reviewed the content of Jervis Johnson’s “STANDARD BEARER - A World of Confusion” article in White Dwarf 315 and have decided that, as the Storm of Chaos book falls under the heading of a Warhammer ‘Expansion’ rather than an army book, we are not allowing the use of Storm of Chaos army lists at these events.

As a rules expansion, the Storm of Chaos book and the army lists contained within it will be allowable, where appropriate, in other Warhammer events such as the Rise of Kingdoms – Warhammer Campaign weekends as well as other shows that are currently on the drawing board for 2007.

We have also taken this opportunity to consider the other armies that have been allowed in the past. Chaos Dwarf and Dogs of War armies are not contained within a published ‘army book’. However as these are well established army lists we have decided to continue to allow them. If you require copies of the army lists for these forces you can contact our Hobby Specialists on 0115 9140000 who would be happy to send a photocopied version of the rules.

This decision only applies to the above mentioned events and is not intended as a statement of the ‘official’ or ‘unofficial’ nature of the Storm of Chaos rules in the wider gaming world. Other event organisers are welcome to include the Storm of Chaos lists in their events should they wish to.

Brian Aderson
UK Events Manager



Personally I'm saddened as there are many armies out there that people have spent a lot of time and money creating that they now cannot use in the UK GT.

cheers
Sha'a'alaar


Last edited by Sha'a'alaar on Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:46 am
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Wow.. what a dick move.

Oh well, the US Rulespack is out already. I feel bad for the UK, and presumably this will be the same fate that Canada will share.

Fr0

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:53 am
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"Hello, people. Once again, we, GW, tread all over you, gamers, who paid money to us, GW, to buy our crappy models at twice the market price for metal miniatures. I'm sorry; did you spend thousands of [insert currency] on that army? No worry, it's no longer official, so you don't have to torture yourself over giving us more money - you can't not do it!"

Very logical to ban something recent and let the players who play DoW and CD, who most probably already have a second army out of having enough of waiting for their army books, keep their toys. I'm glad for the DoW and CD players (those armies do rock), but rather saddened for the people who've invested lots of time and money in lists that weren't fringe lists until now. This does solve the problem of certain overpowered armies that were constantly getting all the trophies at UK events, but the solution would have been to have playtested those lists correctly before releasing them. I wonder; when will GW get something right?

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Last edited by Ansob. on Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:58 am
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Well, that has got to be one of the biggest mistakes GW has made in a while. I don't support it one bit and I doubt many people will. I hope that they put lists like CoS, Daemonic Legion and all the others into the new army books as official lists, not appendix ones.

Sean

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:59 am
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Daemonic legion deserves to have never existed. SoC, AoS, Clan Eshin and probably one or two others were decent, but the slayers list and the DL list were horrendously broken. Have you seen the results for last season's GTUK? Daemonic legion was every top list, practically. This is GW's answer to that. It's a f*cking retarded answer, but it's an answer nonetheless. Something less retarded would have been to not have released lists that weren't properly PTed as official supplements.

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:02 am
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ansob; agreed - demonic legion was a crutch list that allowed players who were not that good to beat much better players - much like skaven SAD or brets (if you disagree with me PM me, ill argue till i win, you know these armys are broken).

Yes, GW blanket banning everything is a little rough, YET they do have a good reason. I really do feel sorry for those of you who are going to have invalid lists because of this blanket ban, but these things do happen - i really hope the gamers in your area are kind enough to allow you to continue playing your list. Best wishes.

All in all, i know this may sound rough, but I am happy with this development.

jfazz.

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:48 am
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Quote:
Have you seen the results for last season's GTUK? Daemonic legion was every top list, practically.

As I recall, the top ten lists were Skaven, Bretonnians, Lizardmen and Wood Elves.

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:14 pm
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Well not being a tournament player or the owner of an army from the SoC supplement, this doesn't affect me really - but it does sound very harsh IMO.

Whats the point in GW releasing a product and telling everyone 'it is perfectly legal' and 'a formal set of rules' and then banning it less than a year later (or was it 2 yrs??). its typical GW in my narrow but aged opinion.

i may be being cynical, but its probably just another ploy by GW to force a percentage of players to have to buy a new army....AGAIN!

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:55 pm
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One reason more not to join a GT or something like this.
More and more I hate this tournaments at all. Where is the fantasy behind this bullhead rampage?

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:20 pm
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A neutral shade of black. wrote:
Daemonic legion deserves to have never existed.


I have to disagree with you here, mainly because you skipped the Slayer army. I just might have a bit more experience playing as and against Daemonic Legion than many here. They have weaknesses just like every army!

jamesfazzolari wrote:
ansob; agreed - demonic legion was a crutch list that allowed players who were not that good to beat much better players -


James, I really resent that comment. I feel the DL list can be just as hard as EVERY other army. Please note that Chaos Dwarfs are still legal, and have leadership TEN on core troops! How about an entire unbreakable army, like Slayers or UNDEAD? Sorry, I just don't agree here.

Eldacar wrote:
Quote:
Have you seen the results for last season's GTUK? Daemonic legion was every top list, practically.

As I recall, the top ten lists were Skaven, Bretonnians, Lizardmen and Wood Elves.


Exactly! I don't hear that many people peeing and moaning over them!

Bait and switch. Jerks! I hate GW eternally for this, though I have been playing with a Daemon army this morning.. which can field Mortals too, but we lose out on WAY too much stuff for it to be that effective.

Thankfully, at this point I don't really have any models that I can't use save both of my Druchiis, which might get fielded as Highborns or Nobles. :x

Fr0

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:53 pm
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Good Call Games Workshop!!!!!

You have to take this whole thing in context. The UK GT is the most competative environment for tournaments out there. As such they have to make sure as best as possible that all the armies fit into the new 7th ed environment.

This means that all those annoying armies from the SoC list should be out. Lothern Sea guard, Demonic Legion, Archaons Horde, 'ardboys etc... all to rediculously unbalanced for the GT. The only lists that were balanced never showed up, as the Tzeench Deamonic Legion and Lothern Sea Guard which were RIDICULOUS should never have existed in their form.

The GT is a competative environment, all competitions have rules.

As for this stupid crap about "official" and "unofficial" the label should be "tournament legal" and "non-tournament legal" or something like that.

Quite frankly this hostility is overblown. It's a tournament, rules change, deal with it. As for your normal gameplay it shouldn't matter. People make up house rules and change things all the time. The vast majority of SoC tournament army owners won't care and also probably have multiple armies anyways.

And Fr0, you live in Canada. Why the hell should you be so pissed off anyways. You knew that the SoC lists would go out of style sooner or later, or you should have.

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:49 pm
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Well done GW! :roll:

I still worked for them when I first heard about the slayer army and KNEW it would be broken.
That's what they get for doing stupid army lists which clearly weren't playtested properly
I feel sorry for people who collected such armies but at least they can change them slightly unlike Squat players


Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:33 pm
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So this is for the UK, for the moment, correct? Which means, for now, that USA players can still use their lists? Granted, there was the Slayer and Sea Guard lists, but what about the 'Ardboyz? CoS? Players liked THOSE lists! What happens to them now? Do I have to give up on my boyz 'cause some of those lists were broken? :cry:

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:38 pm
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the 'Ardboyz list was grossly strong, simply put there is a very good reason that Big 'Uns, and Black Orcs are normally 0-1 choices, 8 points a model is just way to cheap for a model with WS4, S4, T4, normally it's fine because they are limited to only 1 unit of it in the army

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:46 pm
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Underway wrote:
And Fr0, you live in Canada. Why the hell should you be so pissed off anyways. You knew that the SoC lists would go out of style sooner or later, or you should have.


I should be because we haven't gotten our rulespack yet!

How did I know? I'm not not psychic. I'm glad it was so obvious to you. :roll:

Quote:
Q. Will the Storm of Chaos army lists be official even after the
campaign is over?

A. Yes.
S. October 2004 Issue of White Dwarf Magazine (US #297 / UK #298)


That made me think, oh cool I can spend the extra couple of dollars to play Daemons and CoS!

It's not being blown that far out of proportion if I can link you to many, many threads on several forums across the net where it's really annoyed several players. I'm sure you're glad that you didn't spend anywhere near the amount of resources that we have, but that's not reason to be so dismissive of our army selection.

Either way, I'm currently sampling the Daemon army out of the HoC book, which is nearly inferior to the DL list but I get mortals so the extra DD may help offset my annoyance, and provide me with support. :) As for my CoS, I'm actually not stuck with stuff I can't use at this point, thankfully. I will however have 20 Devoted that will have become Witch Elves (again) :?

I have a right to be pissed is all I'm saying, and for some people that collected soley on the fact that they were given the ok, and went to all the time and effort of converting beautiful(and gross) cavalry they should be too.

Tell this guy he can't use his awesome PR's.

And check out all four pages in this thread. That stuff is incredible! The Herald, the 'Crushers, and the chariot. Poof

Anyway, I think I'm finished commenting on this subject, on all forums it just really sucks for a lot of people man.

Fr0

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:50 pm
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Fr0 wrote:
I have to disagree with you here, mainly because you skipped the Slayer army. I just might have a bit more experience playing as and against Daemonic Legion than many here. They have weaknesses just like every army!


Actually, I do, though covertly ("certain overpowered armies"), I just wasn't mentioning any names (DL only got mentioned due to seanzala's comment). I was of course thinking of DL and slayers.

Fr0 wrote:
Exactly! I don't hear that many people peeing and moaning over them!


Strain your ears harder.

You do indeed have a right to be pissed off, though - no one's denying you that (at least I'm not). This just serves to prove that GW are icompetent morons, which I've been preaching for a while. The solution to the problem is not to pretend it never existed, it's to make damn right sure it doesn't come into existance in the first place.

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Last edited by Ansob. on Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:57 pm
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Bad Beast wrote:
the 'Ardboyz list was grossly strong, simply put there is a very good reason that Big 'Uns, and Black Orcs are normally 0-1 choices, 8 points a model is just way to cheap for a model with WS4, S4, T4, normally it's fine because they are limited to only 1 unit of it in the army


No stronger than a regular Chaos list, and since we got no gobbos, that means our fastest unit movement is 7. NOT TO MENTION that we got no armor 'sides from the Black Orcs..... :roll: We're ALMOST as slow as dwarves. :shock:

And no, I am not trying to annoy or bait anyone here. Its just, I've spent money on bits to make my boyz look good, and NOW that I'm ALMOST READY TO FINISH THEM, I get a notice saying that they won't be legal much longer. Its kinda bumming me out right now..... :( :x

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:00 pm
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a regualr chao list isn't 7 points a model for their S4 T4 models

the fact that it's very possible to get 'Er we go on multiple banners as bound spells (often power level 6 or so)makes up for the lack of speed since it allows no charge reaction when you hit with it

i will grant you that you get no goblins, and you limited to a single mage at 2000 points (still a level 4 orc mage normally)

it's the cheapness of Big 'Un, and the lack of need for normal orcs that makes the list unballanced

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:08 pm
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Ok. I'm saying this once, and if I have to say it again, I'm shelling out locks and time-outs. Do not let this degenerate into a flame war, or a "lets bash people who play X army" or a "lets bash X army because I only got a minor victory against it 6 months ago!1!!!!!111!!". If I see anymore argument OFF TOPIC, or any personal attacks, this is going bye bye.
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Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:19 pm
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Fr0 wrote:
Please note that Chaos Dwarfs are still legal, and have leadership TEN on core troops!


Err, no they don't. They have ld10 heroes as the hugely handy advantage (Warriors have the "standard" dwarf stat line).

I just hope that the SoC lists will make an appearance in other tournaments. I wouldn't mind taking my CoP to a tourney, if only as a reason to get the damn thing painted...

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:32 pm
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Baran's right, this is getting offhand now guys. Ranting and raving isn't going to change GW's mind now.

The case now is if you want to enter a tournament, see what you can salvage from what you've bought. Daemons are still hard as nails, just you're not going to get your decent save any more, but still look at them. I might be able to mage daemons without a problem now, but what am I going to do when they hit?? Not gonna help me then is it?

A lot of stuff from these armies can be salvaged and placed into a new list should you want to go to a tournament, but even in friendly games these armies are still usable, and how many tournaments are people likely to go to per year?? There's a lot of people affected by this, and yeah this might just be a ploy by GW so people buy extra to change their army list. But maybe not, and I know there are GW staff who will uphold that this was just a campaign book and the armies really weren't supposed to last this long.

I mean I personally played an Archaon's Horde list, but I'm looking at this positively, because now I can be motivated to use that Daemon Prince of Nurgle I bought a while back in a Mortal army.

It's only the official GW tournaments dropping these as far as I know, some tournaments may still say "Yeah go on, bring them along :)."

Now as Baran said, lets try keep this calm, this is something that does need to be discussed, but screaming at eachother's not going to help.


Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:45 pm
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Well I don´t really see a big problem for the majority of gamers. Most gamers do not go to tourneys anyway, and so far, only the people who wished to take an SoC list to the UKGT are affected.

It might spread to other tourneys, especially official ones, but even then, the people affected represent a very small percentage of GW´s actual sales, so I don´t think they did this to make people buy new armies. That would be silly.

And yes, I know GW is known to not consider the soft factors of the market very often, but still, if that was the reason, none of the managers who made that decision would even have had the competence to actually complete university, methinks. So I think it is a very far-fetched idea.

Tourney-players might seem to dominate internet boards, but in fact, that´s not the case, they just post more in the tactics and army list sections, so they are more present than the casual gamers who just add a thought here and there every once in a while.

As a sidenote, I agree with Baran and Alkk. Cursing GW for this won´t help a lot - or rather, not at all - though I understand that tourney-players are annoyed by this. But give GW some credit. After all, they created this hobby, and without them, we´d not be able to enjoy it at all. They do make crappy decisions from time to time, but if you want that to change, don´t curse them and yell at them, give them constructive criticism instead. There are GW employees who look at forums like ours in order to find out what the community thinks, but they´re unlikely to take your opinions seriously if you say stuff like "GW sucks". They´ll probably stop reading your posts right there.

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:57 pm
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Excuse me, I apologize. I was thinking of their heroes, you were correct Rork.

I'm right irritated and I still maintain the right to but I'm all done posting in these threads, save my clarification here.

My contingency plans are to use the Daemon Army, and Dark Elves. It genuinely sucks that we can't use the armies though.

Out.

Fr0

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:03 pm
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i view this whole thing as a sort of double-edged sword.
Should GW have thoroughly playtested the damned lists first? certainly, however, i think its wonderful that they were big enough to at least admit their mistakes in the form of at least taking the lists out of the running.

Does this particularly affect me? not at all. I live in the states, use my mortal chaos at tourneys, and play with a wonderful group of friends that would let me use my CoS even it was opponent consent, simply because its not miserably unbalanced (see Daemonic Legion)

At any rate, lets hope this is the first step in getting everything in line for a smooth transition into 7th edition and maybe, just maybe, a bit of a nicer tourney scene in the UK.

Now, im not gonna say that these had THAT big an affect on the outcome of the GT's, but the thing is, for GW to illiminate or correct an entire army book is a lot more complex than simply stating "These lists weren't tested enough, they wont be allowed at UKGTs" Obviously what GW needs to do is look at their lists as they are and stop alienating the freaking veteran gamers, however...
GW IS STILL A BUSSINESS. The newest and next biggest thing is ALWAYS going to be stronger or more able than the last, simply to get people to buy it. Look at EA Games and the line of Battlefield 2. They keep expanding it, and they keep making the new guns (only available if you have the expansion) stronger and stronger, to the point where you almost need to get the damn expansion to keep competing.

Like i said, i pray this is just the first step in them sorting themselves out to get 7th edition to flow smoothly, to evolve this game that we all obviously love enough to waste our hard earned money and time on.

just my .02 at that.

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Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:33 pm
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I think you´re all frogetting one thing...
How often do you attend to a GT tournament?
I´m sure you friends and other tournament orginasiners can be pursueded to include the more balanced SoC armies like Daemonic Legion and DE-Cult of Slaanesh.

This isnt the end of the world! ...or rather the SoC lists :)

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Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:06 am
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