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Beasts From Karond Kar -- May Ideas of the Month 
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Lord General Of Khaine
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A new Month Begins so we now we move onto the next Ideas of the Month, this month we move east away from the Temple of Khaine and those who follow their paths. Now we move to the Beast Pens of Karond Kar to see what new creations can be created from the pens, and here is my contribution thus far.
An Old idea that i created long ago, jealous of the Myrwurm i created another great beast of the sea. The Scylla

Scylla [the sea hydra]

The Scylla is a titanic sea monster found in the subterranean lakes beneath the Iron Mountains. Closely related to the Hydra’s of the Blackspine mountains the Scylla is a fearsome, scaled beast with many serpentine heads that secrete a deadly poison that can kill within seconds. Only recently have the Beastmasters of Karond Kar begun to train Scylla by calling them from the depths of the oceans by bone whistles made of the bones of Hydras.

M Ws BS S T W I A Ld
Scylla 5 4 0 5 5 6 3 5 6


Points/Model: 245

The Scylla is a Rare choice.

Special Rules:
Scaly Skin: 4+ armour save.
Large Target: A Scylla is a Large target.
Terror: A Scylla is a terrifying creature and there for causes terror.
Regeneration: The Scylla has a highly advanced healing system able to heal wounds almost as soon as they are inflicted.
Poison: The Scylla Excretes a deadly poison through glands in it’s mouth it therefore has poisoned attacks.
Aquatic: The Scylla is a creature of the seas and therefore suffers no movement penalties for moving through water based terrain. Instead their movement is increased to 9 and they do not count as a large target in water.
Controlled: You may take as many Scylla as you have Beastmasters in the army, subject to the restrictions on rare units. Each Scylla is bound to a specific Beastmaster before deployment.
Should the Beastmaster be slain, the Scylla must pass a Ld test if the test is passed the Scylla fights on as normal if the test is failed it must take roll on the monster reaction table in the Warhammer rulebook.

A Beastmaster may ride a Scylla at +245pts if so the Beastmaster counts as a rare and a hero choice. The Scylla is bound to the Beastmaster riding it.

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Last edited by Voodoomaster on Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue May 02, 2006 1:48 pm
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"Should the Beastmaster be slain, the Scylla must pass a Ld test if the test is passed the Scylla fights on as normal if the test is failed it must take roll on the monster reaction table in the Warhammer rulebook."
Sounds logical:
Scylla hears a rumour that on the other side of the battlefield a beastmaster has been killed and decides to leave the battle...

I think that the beastmaster should remain close to the seawyrm at all time, because he doeasnt have a magical link to the creature.
I will give you my monster idea sometimesoon, but I don't have time right now.

I typo alot..

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Tue May 02, 2006 2:58 pm
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I remember liking this idea a lot before Vood, and I think it's nice. Quite a nice substitue to the Hydra. However, I think it perhaps follows too many of the Merwyrms trait's, and perhaps we should choose traits from both it and the hydra, to create a new hydra. Just a thought, because it's very similar, and I'm not sure it would really add so much to the list, just give us a more hardy but slightly less versatile hydra. About the creature itself...

Regen and a 4+ save? Make it 5+ at most, I'd say. Your excuse is that in the sea, it doesn't want heavy scales slowing it down, or something. Just seems a bit too much for me, even if the save can be reduced. Perhaps not, but it's what I think. Controlled, I'm not sure about. It's nice that it doesn't need handlers, but seems too much like the HE rule, and also forces you to take a BM, even if you only really want this Hydra. A sacrifice, perhaps was the intention, but we can make it other ways. Not sure though, perhaps it's ok, and if playing a beast army it wouldn't make too much of a difference. Nice idea to start though.

I had an idea before about changing the beastmaster slot from a character to a unit choice, or at least add in/change it to a unit. You could take either a single beastmaster, who could ride beasts etc, and had abilities, or take a few, who worked together and probably had a pack of beasts. Either in the same manner as squigs or more like OK hunters and sabretusks. Anyway, these beasts could be like dogs to wolves (massive ones), big cats, or even cold ones (perhaps optional, or just choose one for the Dark Elves to specialise in)! I was thinking something like:

Beastmasters 40 / 10pts per model
The Druchii live in a desolate country, but not an unpopulated one. In the land of Naggaroth lurk many ferocious beasts, that are captured by Dark Elf Beastmasters, and trained for use in battle. Often apprentice Beastmasters work together in teams, with a few animals, while veterans ride great monsters into battle.

Code:
            M WS BS S T W I A LD
Beastmaster 5  5  4 3 3 2 6 2 8
Apprentice  5  4  4 3 3 1 5 1 8
Wolves      9  4  0 3 3 1 4 1 4
Cold Ones   7  3  0 4 4 2 3 2 3


-BM rules as now, with perhaps some additions...
-Max of 1 BM per "pack" (40pts) - Must be on own to ride a beast
-May take between 1 and 5 apprentices
-May take wolves at 10pts each, or cold ones at 20pts each
-May take no more than 2 wolves per apprentice and/or beastmasters in the pack
-May take no more Cold Ones than 1/2 no of elves in pack (rounding up)
-Cold Ones are subject to stupidity - unless BM is with unit.
-May either go at pace of apprentices, or can ride on beasts, going at speed of beasts, but must take a ld test each turn or take D3 S3 hits on apprentices - if BM is in unit, this test isn't taken.
Skirmish, Cold ones cause fear, if BM is slain take a monster reaction test

Not sure about these rules at all, but this is the sort of thing I was thinking about. Not sure at all about the points costs or the special rules, but you get my drift. Perhaps a way to add a unique (ish) unit to DE and add some beasts too.

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I wish i had been told about the "A-Team effect" that druchii experience with their shooting.

i.e. move into position, huge ammounts of shooting, nobody gets killed.


Tue May 02, 2006 5:07 pm
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Wolves ? Are you goblin?
I would prefer to see beastmaster on lions than on wolves (I say lions but I mean a beast asbig as a lion)
Why not an hydra cavalry?
It won't be very cheap (5 beastmaster on hydras, banners, musician....1500 points!!!), but there will be less dead people after a battle ( on th DE side, of course!) and our race won't be in extinction.

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Tue May 02, 2006 5:24 pm
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Personaly I believe we need some sort of non-flying elite monster,something like a giant Cold One or small Carnosaur to be riden by our nobility.
M WS BS S T W I A LD
7 5 0 5 5 4 5 3 5
Special Rules:4+Armour Save
Terror Causer
Large target
Blood Frenzy(frenzied after it causes a wound)
Bred for war(if rider is slain it attacks the closest enemy unit.
Points:140
What do you thing guys???

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Tue May 02, 2006 6:16 pm
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What about a swarm of Snaps(tiny dragon on COK champion's arm)It could be like VC's bat swarm.

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Tue May 02, 2006 6:21 pm
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Wolf riding elven cavalry??? We need something more refined. Since Druchii see themselves as the most civilised race, I think we deserve something no other race has, an especially bred cold one for instance.

Otherwise we could might as well take Vin Diesel riding cavalry! Oh no, those creatures would resemble cold ones too much: fear causing and stupidity! :D :D :D


Tue May 02, 2006 6:54 pm
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Swarms are interesting, but personally I like BG for this sort of tarpit/holding up use, but then again they don't really do the same sort of jobs.

I meant less wolf riding cavalry, and more packmasters. Think ferocious wolves charging the enemy, straining on chains perhaps, whipped into battle, or something like that. Think less rider, and more packmaster.

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Venkh wrote:
I wish i had been told about the "A-Team effect" that druchii experience with their shooting.

i.e. move into position, huge ammounts of shooting, nobody gets killed.


Tue May 02, 2006 7:25 pm
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Like Middenheim (SOC) hunting hounds you mean?

I think that could work fluffwise.

I only think Gav T is not likely to give us a fast throw away unit like that.

It could be very complementary to our list though.


Tue May 02, 2006 7:39 pm
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I like your idea, Lichdrow : Lustrie is not very far away from Nagarroth.
I would see a unit of monster lead by an apprentice beastmaster (as skavens do, you know, the giant "mouse"), may be some snakes (their poison is use for preparing the blade to assassinate).

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Wed May 03, 2006 10:38 am
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The Liger wrote:
The Druchii live in a desolate country


Naggaroth may be freezing, but it is far from desolate. There are haunted forests in every direction. It's like the Anulli mountain ranges, but an entire continent.

And as far as beasts go, I never leave home without them. This is my wishlist:

Cocatrice bring it back dang it!
Pack of Hunting Dogs/Wolves for rounding up runnaway slaves or dealing with lone characters/units
Swarms of Fell Crows sort of like carrier pigeons, and a lesser version of the harpies

I love the Scylla idea. I also once read about an idea in which the Hydra gets to shoot five seperate fireballs during the shooting phase. That would make the Hydra something like a walking flamethrower and you'd get more bang for your buck.


Wed May 03, 2006 5:10 pm
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That's a hard topic for me. Beasts are certainly a commodity (sp?) for the Druchii but it's important to keep the game balance and the feel intact. The idea of swarms of snaps is really cool but would give the Druchii a swarm and that could potentially upset the balance. But again, the idea is a good find.

Spiders are a possibility (we've got a plain of them), but I don't really like the idea. The Drow worship them in D&D and Goblins do so in Warhammer.

I really like the monsters already included in the list but perhaps there's room for one more.

I was thinking about two creatures:

Wyrm: a smaller version of the dragon or just a young dragon. Basically an independent flying monster of moderate power. Since dragons are presumed to be fairly intelligent, I guess you could leave them on their own. Otherwise, you can park a Beasmaster on it.

A Siberian Liger: Just a souped up cat. A Siberian tiger is a white cat with black stripes and this one would be quite a bit bigger. You could make large panthers of them if they're not dark enough to suit the theme. They could be used as optional mounts, replacement of steeds or packs.

Not the best ideas but perhaps they get the thread alive again. It's still a long way until June. ;)

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Wed May 10, 2006 3:08 pm
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SleekDD wrote:
A Siberian Liger: Just a souped up cat. A Siberian tiger is a white cat with black stripes and this one would be quite a bit bigger. You could make large panthers of them if they're not dark enough to suit the theme. They could be used as optional mounts, replacement of steeds or packs.
I likes it! Wonder why... ;)

Spiders are interesting, but gobbos have them. Wolves too. I think we need something unique, and befitting the Druchii. Cat's are sleek, stylish but with a hint of darkness and mystery to them, and perhaps even some malice. Yes, they're (very) big cats but they can still portray this (as long as they're done better than the sabretusks), and are pretty unique.

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Venkh wrote:
I wish i had been told about the "A-Team effect" that druchii experience with their shooting.

i.e. move into position, huge ammounts of shooting, nobody gets killed.


Wed May 10, 2006 6:49 pm
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Quote:
Wyrm: a smaller version of the dragon or just a young dragon
I thought it would interest you: a wyrm is considered a very old, cunning, strong dragon... Such like the one Imrik rides, Minaithnir, I think.
I would go for :
m ws bs s t w i a ld points 370
6 7 0 6 6 7 5 5 9
But it seems more to me that HE should have access to wyrms. We just stole some eggs. The real great Wyrms slumber in the Caledorian mountains. *Ilokir waits for Eldacar to pop up and confirm* :mrgreen:


here are two marvellous versions of a merwyrm, I especcially like the red one.. The next step to a merhydra or Scylla isn't difficult to imagine !wink!


Fear the liger! His name is Hercules, btw.. ;)

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Wed May 10, 2006 7:11 pm
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There is one gripe i do have about the current hydras though,
All hydras throughout mythilogical history have all had one thing in common...the ability to regenerate;

IE
Heracules VS the hydra, chopped off one head that split into 2 etc..

If anything we should fix our hydra before moving onto bigger and better things. I would definately pay extra10-20 pts for a regenerating hydra...

thoughts?

If there's anythign we should add the menajerie of the Druchii, is that its should be a Basilisk.

220pts

Only ever trained by the most proficient of Beastmasters, Basilisks have been known to hunt Hydras as prey. May only be lead if your army has a Beastmaster

M BS WS S T I A Ld Sv
6 - 5 5 5 2 4 6 4+

Special Rules: Large Target, causes Terror, scaly skin(4+), immune to poison

Piercing Gaze:
As a shooting attack; Flame Template, all models completely under take a S 3 hit, no armor saves. Partials are hit on a 4+. If the unit takes any casualties, must take an immediate Panic check.
In close combat, models in btb with the Basilisk must take a strength test or cannot attack.

Well Trained:
Should the Beastmaster be killed, the Basilisk will seek its masters killer. The basilisk is now Unbreakable and suffers from Hatred and Stupidity until the unit that killed its master has either fled off the table or is destroyed. If the Basilisk manages to avenge its masters death it will remain in the last spot it where it killed the offending unit. If the unit is already destroyed/ fled of table then it will gaurd the body of its fallen master.

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Wed May 10, 2006 7:26 pm
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Her is an idea for a seahydra:

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warh ... rtigon.htm

Needs only to remove the shell...

And the great wyrms slumber in the caledorian mountains(save for the forgeworlds empire dragon, which is totally insane/broken).
As eanybody who owns the latest Helf armybook can tell you...

And the Delf army book says:
"Over thousands of years he (Witch King) has been secretly hoarding a clutch of dragon eggs."(page 50)

Am I bored?

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Wed May 10, 2006 7:27 pm
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Dark elves should stick to the reptilian thing. It works for them. A small dragon would be a drake (think War of the Beard Dragon Princes).

Also in the DE book there is a picture of a smaller dragon type thing. Not to mention the hunting dragon the COK carries. I would suggest sticking to drakes, dragons, tiny wyrms and cold ones for DE type things. Cold blooded and venemous are very dark elven.

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Wed May 10, 2006 7:29 pm
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So, Drake instead of Wyrm, got it. 8)

Not all our creatures are reptilian and yet they are considered part of the Druchii. Dark Steeds, Dark Pegasi and the Manticores come to mind. I really like the way the Cold Ones look and the concept of going down that road is fine by me. I just feel we shouldn't dismiss ideas out of hand based on their reptilian nature.

I think the cats could work, although it would take some adjusting. On the other hand, the first time I saw Dark Elves riding Cold One (previous edition) fear was not nearly as close as laughter. But I got used to it. The current edition solved a lot of that and now I like having them on the battlefield (until they decide this is a pretty good place for a picnic and the battle can wait a few minutes. :D )

Perhaps using snaps as some kind of familiar? The Vampire Counts have Warrior Familiars the cause an automatic S5 hit to a model in base contact. Perhaps something similar can be used as a 'magic item' or perhaps even a mundane upgrade?

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Thu May 11, 2006 8:44 am
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Snaps could be used like gnoblars are used for Ogre characters,giving our characters some benefits.

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Thu May 18, 2006 9:11 pm
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Drizz't: I made Basilisk rules a while back for my Devotees of the Snake Goddess list, check it out if you want, there's a link in the Ideas Archive.

Although not really a completely new unit, I remember DruchiiShootLord coming up with some nice rules for Druchii Pegasi Riders...I'll see if I can either dig them up or send him this way ;)

AoAlgebra :lol:


Fri May 19, 2006 2:17 am
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