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Army of Insane Maneuvrebility *Updated 03/07 with games 1-3 
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Rudolph's Heir
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Well, I have begun to dig up some old threads I read 2 years ago and found really go. I also looked through the Hall of Fame again (and noticed that it has been updated once again :)).
I wanted something new and tried an all cav army. I kind of tried to get Hajij's theme of all eggs in one basket in there too as I could do this during deployment but don't have to.
So here is the list, short but sweet:

lvl 3 with 2 scrolls
noble with gw,ha,sdc,xbow, shield and on steed
noble with gw,ha,sdc,xbow,shield and the seal on steed
noble with the draich of dark power,ha,sdc,xbow shield on steed

2x5 DR with standard+mus
5 DR with xbows
12 xbowmen with shields and mus

10 COK with mus
5 harpies

spellthirster hydra
10 Heavy Cavalry of the Dogs with barded steeds

57 models

Ok, here I have the 3 chain nobles + the lvl 3 which Ash is to thank for. I still think it to be a great idea and very effective vs most armies as there AS is decent, they have the flank bonus and can do a lot of damage with all that str 6 and killing blow too, which makes strong hero characters kinda flee. (If you know what I mean :evil: )
Then I have my standard lvl 3+ spellthirster set-up which just works with great efficiency against them rather magic heavy lists in my club. 5 DD+the magic resistance just rocks!
My punch is distributed by the two heavy cavalry units and the DR with standards who usually combo charge, if possible with the nobles. This will hopefully result in big messes :)
And to round things off I have the xbowmen for fast cavarly and flier defense as well as the occasional flank and table quarter getting. The harpies and DR without standards will do the usual marchblocking, mage hutning + being a pain in the ***! :)

And.. yes. Comments pls .)

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Yeah, been a long time and I have come across all sort of ****.

but I AM back so there you go-it's official ;)
It seems like the assassin sent out to eliminate me failed.
[insert evil laughter]


Last edited by Narathiel on Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:51 pm
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Master of the Red Legion
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I like it - it actually uses a bunch of stuff that Ash has always seemed to like and which works quite well for him. I don't think I'd bother giving the nobles RXBs mind you, and taking them away would net you a musician in the 3rd DR unit and one in the RXB unit (or more command options for the COK). Apart from the little tweaking, looks solid, fast, and adaptable to many situations. :)

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Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:18 pm
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Rudolph's Heir
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Thanks for your advice Vorchild.

I think the idea with the xbows is good as the nobles can't march and shoot anyway and will mostly using their speed to catch things or be in combat.This gives me the all so important full command for the COK too. :)

So Versions 1.1

lvl 3 with 2 scrolls
noble with gw,ha,sdc, shield and on steed
noble with gw,ha,sdc,shield and the seal on steed
noble with the draich of dark power,ha,sdc, shield on steed

5 DR with standard+mus
5 DR with standard
5 DR with xbows
12 xbowmen with shields and mus

10 COK with full command
5 harpies

spellthirster hydra
10 Heavy Cavalry of the Dogs with barded steeds

57 models
5 PD
5DD+ hydra+2 scrolls

more replies welcome:)

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Yeah, been a long time and I have come across all sort of ****.

but I AM back so there you go-it's official ;)
It seems like the assassin sent out to eliminate me failed.
[insert evil laughter]


Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:57 am
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Rotting skull on the Glottkin trail
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Very nice list. I like the Dark Rider set up a lot. The 2 with std + 1 with rxbs really gives you a lot of options, and one of the bannered DR units along with the nobles could really do some damage!

All in all, I'd love to see a single RBT in the list (to help you control the movement phase, as in this thread http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=21848&start=12 and specifically this reply from Underway), but I know that's impossible as there are no rare slots. Maybe the Lifetaker and a great weapon instead of the DoDP on the Noble. Also, consider the Deathmask.

Very good list IMO. Cheers.

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Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:18 pm
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Rudolph's Heir
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Thx for your reply Lord Hajij.

True, the lifetaker would be a very nice addition.
(Obviously the reaper doesn't work and that is why I used the xbowmen)
The deathmask, is not really my liking as i have the hydra anyway and only one test has to be taken. The 3 nobles cannot autobreak when they are US 6 and will definitely when US 20+ anyway so not worth it IMHO.

I think the DODP is really important to get that fear aspect into the list as then big ugly characters will be more scared of the nobles and units of cavalry and thus will want the lifetaker on the other noble.
However, I have no real idea what to drop because everything seems to have it's own place here.

Any suggestions?

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Yeah, been a long time and I have come across all sort of ****.

but I AM back so there you go-it's official ;)
It seems like the assassin sent out to eliminate me failed.
[insert evil laughter]


Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:09 pm
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Rotting skull on the Glottkin trail
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The Deathmask suggestion stems from the fact that the nobles are far faster and maneuverable than the hydra is. I don't think its something to put in the room of 'vital' in any means. Actually now that I think about it I dont really think it too worth it at all.

Are you planning on using your DoDP noble as a sort of 'character assassin' ready to charge in and hope for a killing blow? If so I think you are going to be dissapointed. With only WS6 and 3A he isn't going to get much better than a 1 in 6 shot to take out a lord, and even less should said lord have a ward save.

If, on the other hand, you are using it soley as a GW that strikes in initiative order with a chance of killing blow, then i think its kinda overkill. In fact, I think that the DoDP is wasted on a noble with only 3A. Don't get me wrong its a great weapon, I use it in my everyday army along with the Black Amulet on a Highborn on foot to put me on somewhat equal ground in a fight with above average lords like VonCarstein vamp counts and such. I just don't think that in this case it's worth it over a GW, or a SoM + Lifetaker. Also, if you think about it from a somewhat fluffy perspective (which I always do) a noble on DS with a SoM, Lifetaker, sh, and ha would be a pretty sweet looking model. Maybe an old school corsair or something.

The lifetaker I see as being perfect for this army. In fact I've recently become a huge fan of it. It has a realistically decent chance of forcing a panic test on a unit of skirmishers or fast cav in a single turn, and can provide a reliable +1 to CR (by means of taking off a rank) before an important combat. Also, placed on a mobile noble you can pick your shots easily. Which means the potential to take out unarmored T3 mages in a single shooting phase.

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Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:02 pm
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Hajjij: The only problem with lifetaker is that you can't march and shoot with it. Also, SoM + Lifetaker's not going to work, as that's two magic weapons.

If you're looking for a menacing element to the list, I'd consider switching out the last noble for a BSB on a horse with the hydra banner. You'd have to scrounge up some points, probably from command throughout the army and maybe the spellthirster upgrade.

Hydra banner + chain-linked nobles = nasty. The guy can pop in and out of the COK and DR where you need him.

I'd also try and get the darkstar cloak in, so you have a decent magic offense, but I can't see anywhere to pull enough points from.

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Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:24 pm
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Rudolph's Heir
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Ok.

Hajij:
I totally agree that DODP won't kill scar veterans and the like but it has an ok chance. I use the DODP to be able to have one noble always attacking first with such a high initiative and with str6 and have someone with magical attacks. The killing blow keeps experienced players away, which works most of the time, as they have all seen how mean killingblow can be to those characters. This is, i think an excellent psychological advantage for me.
The lifetaker would be great for the sorceress imho, so she can get some kills on enemy cavalry.

Black Beans :):
Yes, the hydra banner would hugly benefit my list but people will expect to see this in the list and I have no idea where to get the points from. The noble would also be hunted down very soon and would die to all kinds of enemy flying heroes with just a 5+AS to str5. Getting the 100+ points for this would also be very hard and I really need the spellthirster and the commands for my list to work-even more so than the banner....
And the dsc is IMHO not worth it as 6PD is rarely enough to do enough damage anyways. And as msot of my opponents have 5+DD it's rather pointless...

Any more ideas?

_________________
Yeah, been a long time and I have come across all sort of ****.

but I AM back so there you go-it's official ;)
It seems like the assassin sent out to eliminate me failed.
[insert evil laughter]


Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:07 pm
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Rotting skull on the Glottkin trail
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Quote:
I totally agree that DODP won't kill scar veterans and the like but it has an ok chance.


Chances of a Killing Blow against WS6+ (some hero and almost all lord level characters): 1/12 or 8.333% chance.

Chances of a Killing Blow against WS5- (crap heroes): 1/9 or 11.111%

So even against crappy heroes like humans or skaven you still only have about a 10% chance to killing blow them. 8)

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So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.

-Sun Tzu


Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:38 pm
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Rudolph's Heir
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^^Doesn't look too light huh?

Ok. I will not take the DODP, as you didn't even consider ward saves which lots of people have. However, I think that I really need a magic weapon for one of my nobles for dryads, spirit hosts and the like.
I would probably go for Crimson Death meaning that I would have to take away 95 points. That is basdically my dark rider unit which would be a big pain to loose as it gives me so much to do.

any suggestions?

cheers
nathy

_________________
Yeah, been a long time and I have come across all sort of ****.

but I AM back so there you go-it's official ;)
It seems like the assassin sent out to eliminate me failed.
[insert evil laughter]


Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:54 am
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Master of the Red Legion
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You'd be surprised at how useful a basic sword of might can be. With the leftover 30 points you save from the draich, you could give the guy a kick ass armour save or a ward save, or even just toss the points elsewhere and keep him cheap.

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Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:05 pm
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Rudolph's Heir
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Yes, I suppose a sword of might will be the best.
So Final Version

Version 1.2

lvl 3 with 2 scrolls and lifetaker
noble with gw,ha,sdc, shield and on steed
noble with gw,ha,sdc,shield and the seal on steed
noble with the sword of might,ha,sdc, shield on steed

5 DR with standard+mus
5 DR with standard
5 DR with xbows
12 xbowmen with shields and mus

10 COK with full command
5 harpies

spellthirster hydra
10 Heavy Cavalry of the Dogs with barded steeds

57 models
5 PD
5DD+ hydra+2 scrolls

So basically the noble now has the sword of might as a magic item and the sorceress has the ever useful lifetaker now.

What do you think now?

cheers
nathy

_________________
Yeah, been a long time and I have come across all sort of ****.

but I AM back so there you go-it's official ;)
It seems like the assassin sent out to eliminate me failed.
[insert evil laughter]


Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:27 pm
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The list seems to be very flexible and versatile :D Although in my opinion always I need some pourpose for the characters to be there...regarding the simple noble the one without any special weapon/armour how do you plan to use him?...You do not need any BsB so that option is off, not another magick weapon as you already got a hunter for etherials. Maybe if you gave him the deathmask? Should you encounter any mortals the banner unit of DR would proove reliable for that task. Furthermore if all of them are on same type of mount they would proove to be a realy strong chain afterwards.
If you do not find any points available you may try to swap the RxB 12 warriors(I regret to say I do not trust them on the protection of the High sorceress, perhaps if they were a solid block but then they would just slow down the whole army) for a further unit of RxB DR which will advance along with the Heavy Cavalry fyrthermore you get more mage/machine hunters. In any case you must have your resons for using this special army list and in any case i'm not implying anything as most of you guys are far more experienced than me but I realy wanted to express my point of view and see if it makes any sense or not.

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Single combat I await
My shadow brings them fear
The spikes upon my chariot
Will grind them when they're near...


Last edited by Kristo on Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:05 am, edited 4 times in total.



Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:56 pm
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Rudolph's Heir
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Thx for your reply.

The nobles are there to either work together in the chain you mentioned with US6 and they can also support units of knights and DR. This makes my list potentially very dangerous as the movement means that setting up charges shouldn't be too hard. I kept the nobles as simple as possible as I don't want to spend the 500+points on them but rather a 100 points more on units. We have already discussed the use of the deathmask btw.

The xbowmen I would keep, and they are probably not guarding the lvl 3. These are really helpful to keep the mobility of my list as they can kill other fast cav with their xbows.
They are also good at getting the odd table quarter or flank charge in the end and just have better survivability on the field.

cheers
nathy

_________________
Yeah, been a long time and I have come across all sort of ****.

but I AM back so there you go-it's official ;)
It seems like the assassin sent out to eliminate me failed.
[insert evil laughter]


Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:41 am
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Rudolph's Heir
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Ok. I had 3 battles in a mini tournament at my house with this list yesterday.

One was vs a DE list (civil war ;)) with 2lvl 2s, hb on steed, witches, cauldron, reapers 4 chariots and lots of warrior units. So a magicky, cauldron list with lots of troops.
In short, he rolled black horror for both his mages and killed some DR units and the COK unit+ a noble.
However, my other 2 nobles and the hydra had out-flanked his whole army with the smart usage of steed of shadows on the lvl 3 so she could be in range to cast it and then unseen lurker to get them into position. I killed the COB and a reaper and overran killing a big spearmen block too.
On the other flank I was loosing bad with everything gone but 8 heavy cavalry. However, in the end my nobles were too much for him and nor magic, arrow bolt or sword could kill them. I killed all his models and only had a noble and hydra left at the end:
By very close a solid victory

Next game against SAD skaven.
To sum things up I deployed a refused flank and totally smashed his one flank with dual charges of the 20+ US cavalry units. The other side I kept annoyed by terorrizing it with the hydra, harpies and DR. Almost half his army fled off the board and the rest I killed. In this game I was, I must include here, extremely lucky with dice rolling as his shooting and magic only killed the hydra (a sacrifice worth taking), harpies and all my DR- normally everything would have died. :(
Massacre needless to say

Game 3 vs a similar army to mine: All cavalry Brets with luckily no pegasus lord.
This was quick vs quick and my harpies and DR dominated most of his movement 8 army after using unseen lurker to kill his peggie knights in turn 3 already. The rest was me marchblocking, killing his mounted yeomen and circling around him, eventually surrounding his whole army. Then he gave up- he didn't want to see all those attacks. :lol:
Massacre-as he gave up.


Learning points:
-3 nobles can win combat against all infantry units supported without a character and are very vversatile
-Shadow magic on this list is really nice and frustrating to opponents
-Playing a refused flank and "harassing" the weak flank with the hydra, harpies and a DR unit with xbows is really good as the maigc resistance means he mostly can't magic me and all untis are really good and evil if he makes a mistake.
-xbowmen make a good decoy, are good at flanking and won't be expected to flee and thus often hunted aroudn the board as the opponent know he can't catch the rest :twisted:
-cavalrymen are a great alternative to COK and have a really nice AS.


As you can probably imagine I won the tournament. Home advantage all the way :)
(that's why Germany will probably win the world cup)
I really, really like the list. The nobles are definitely the strength as they are the only rather shooting-resistant models in the list and the reason why I win against all shooting or slow/horde armies.
My only troubles with this list are heavy magic. Any str 5 spell or no AS spell would really wreck havoc on those knights. but what should I do to counter this. Invest in another scroll?


cheers
nathy

_________________
Yeah, been a long time and I have come across all sort of ****.

but I AM back so there you go-it's official ;)
It seems like the assassin sent out to eliminate me failed.
[insert evil laughter]


Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:38 pm
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