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Finally... 2250 Dodge and Weave (mid-page 1: 1K + 1.5K pred) 
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EDITED! Here's the 2250 list I've concocted! Prepare to be bored to death with why I chose each and every unit! BWUHAHAHAH! :twisted:

HS lv4 - CoDS, Lifetaker, HSoD 360
Sorc lv2 on DS - WoK 182
Sorc lv2 on DS - DSC 162

DoW Dark Emissary 265

5 DR, rxbs, Muso 127
5 DR, rxbs, Muso 127
5 DR, rxbs, Muso 127
5 DR, rxbs, Muso 127

8 Shades, Bloodshade 124
8 Shades, Bloodshade 124
5 Harpies 65
5 Cold One Knights, Full Comm - SSS 240

War Hydra 220

models: 54
rxb shots: 72+2(Lifetaker)
PD: 14+1(DSC)+WoK
DD: 8


In the 1K and 1.5K lists leading up to this 2250 version, the focus has been control of the Movement phases supported by missile fire. Since, the number of rxb shots has not been increased significantly - I'd rather have magic superiority. And off we went.

The Emissary: a blatant excuse to field another lv4 caster in <3K. But he's evil, and his spell list potentially very destructive - so I never really doubted this decision. I cut down on general items, keeping only WoK and DSC - until it was time to outfit the HS!

Both lv4 casters have a Shade bodyguard (totaling 9 each unit to keep Panic at bay) including a Bloodshade to avoid challenges (credit to Sulam for pointing that out!). The HS got CoDS to give her unit the option of scouting, HSoD because it rocks hard against miscasts as well as real battlefield dangers and Lifetaker because I'm a fluff biatch at heart. ;)

The two lv2 Sorcs will simply hook up with a DR unit each. As in my other lists, I have 4 units running around. I wanted more but tried to avoid cluttering the board too much. My solution should be clear (though I will elaborate later anyway :P )

The Harpies were taken because they... c'mon, 65 points. I don't need to explain this to you guys, right?

Now for the HAMMERS! The Hydra performed well in a recent 1.5K battle against Beasts of Chaos so it features here as well. Keeping in theme with the whole control thing going on here I opted for my favorite version of Knights: Shadow Knights :twisted: So while the Hydra unit behave as skirmishers, the Knights can fake-out as FastCav!

So everything in this list is either a type of shirmisher, or FastCav. If an opponent starts whining about cheesiness I'll be sure to point this Very Fluffy Element out to him/her ;)
Have fun ripping, guys! :D

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Last edited by Raneth on Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:03 pm
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I'd dump the Dark Guard for another unit of DR.

Effective, especially if you play quarters, and you will frustrate many opponents. You will make few friends however.

I slaughtered 1000 points of Brets with army like this.

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Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:55 pm
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And let the Dark Sorceress run alone?

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:22 pm
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Didn't notice the lack of mount, sorry. I think I'd take out the Scroll. At 1000 points, your DD should be enough. Put the non-scout on a horse, use the remaining points for another Shade in the 5 man unit.

The army is good, I just don't feel happy with all the shades, but you know your environment much better than I do. You will be able to move a unit of Shades into a building and the threat of scouting and deploying in the enemy deployment area may cause many problems for your enemy.

In any case, I do like the style of your army.

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Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:45 pm
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Drop the sorceress on a steed and give her the Wand. Then run her with one of the DR units. That would boost your magic quite a bit. 3 units of shooting and at least 3 magic missles a turn. The dispel scroll isn't completely necessary. You have enough mage hunters, and 5 dispel dice should be enough defense for most games. I think OODs advice is good, you just have to give her a steed.

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Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:52 pm
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OoD, Loki, thanks for your advice. It all fits to a tee! :o

Sorceress (Lv2), on DS, WoK 182
Sorceress (Lv2), Seal, DSCloak 175

5 DR (rxb), muso 127
5 DR (rxb), muso 127
5 DR (rxb), muso 127
5 DR (rxb), muso 127

5 Shades 70
5 Harpies 65

TOTAL 1000 (!!! :D )

models: 32
shots/turn: 50
PD: 6+1 (DSC) (+WoK)
DD: 4+1 (Seal)


What do you think? My cheese-o-meter goes through the roof! :twisted:

EDIT
Here's the 1.5K draft list for all of you to bad-mouth. Thanks in advance ;)

Sorceress (Lv2), on DS, WoK 182
Sorceress (Lv2), Seal, DSCloak 175
Sorceress (Lv2), on DS, Soulstone, Power Stone 192

5 DR (rxb), muso 127
5 DR (rxb), muso 127
5 DR (rxb), muso 127
5 DR (rxb), muso 127

5 Shades 70
5 Shades, light armour 75
6 Harpies 78

War Hydra 220

TOTAL 1500

models: 42
shots/turn: 60
PD: 8+1 (DSC) (+WoK) (+Power Stone)
DD: 5+1 (Seal)


It feels a bit small-ish. But against this list, the Hydra must be dealt with as it can fulfil its intended role to the utmost maximum. Hopefully, it will draw a lot of fire. I'll need to be braver with my DR, war machine hunting becomes that much more important...

On the upside, my magic phase is now insanely strong. I played with the idea of taking a Dark Emissary and foregoing the Hydra but I definitely want my only hammer unit to be non-stupid.

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Last edited by Raneth on Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:25 pm
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Your magic setup is quite effective. With 7 PD + wand you'll be able to have 2 magic missles + dooombolt plus an extra 3 dice for another spell, which is undoubtely quite effective. Make sure you protect your sorceress well for your army highly depend on them.

I really think this is a way to beat woodies since they won't count on the enemy being superior in the mvement phase. Against woodies I'd recommend to take dark magic with both sorceress so that you can cast chillwind twice each turn.

Sulam

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Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:47 pm
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Definitely off the cheese-o-meter and you'll frustrate the heck out of your opponents while you kill them, in the best Druchii tradition. I used a very similar army in my Bretonnian tactics thread.

You can deny VP to those gunlines and maybe concentrate against a tiny point of their army and shoot/magic them to bits if the terrain allowa.

Study your lores well. I found Death to be very powerful against the Bretonninas, but I assume from your experience that I'm telling my grannie how to suck eggs, so this is more for others who may read this thread.

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Last edited by Opera of death on Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:52 pm
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Yes, the Lores will be swapped quite a lot. The set-up you see was meant for battling Asrai, and I chose Death for one Sorc to deal with Hi-T Dryads :evil:

However, I did not take into account that I now have WoK. So double-Dark might very well be the way to go. Thanks for the heads-up, Sulam.

@ OoD: perhaps luckily, the choice we have in the Lore department is not too broad :P at least when compared to our hated Asur kin. Shadow is right out. No Assassin/assassin-style Noble in the list, so the default spell is nigh useless. Add the awfulness of Crown of Taidron and we've got a loser.

It basically boils down to whether my opponent concentrates on melee or shooting. The former: both Death; the latter: both Dark; and when my opponent balances out I'd do the same with my girls.

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:44 pm
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Steed of shades can be really deadly. It means that you can charge in the magic phase. Image for example that a big unit with general is fleeing, but will, due to a musician and high ld, probably rally next turn. When casting this spell you can for example charge with a sorceress so that the unit might flee off the table or in your harpies etc etc so that they are destroyed.
Besides that, an extra movement action fits the tactic of this list well if you manage to get spell nr. 5.

IMO double dark or dark-death is still the best way to go, but I'm just mentioning shadow isn't useless too.

Sulam

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Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:53 pm
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Yes, but the default Shadow spell sucks in this list and you know it ;)

I have tried Shadow on a Lv4 and it sure has potential, I´ll agree with you on that one. We´ll see what happens when I continue on this road onto 1.5K and eventually 2K...

IC would be a Lv4 of course. If she´d practice the Lore of Shadow, a Hero on foot (Assassin/Noble) would become attractive also. Of course more Shades and DR, but for the Rares I´m actually in doubt...

Two options seem logical to me... either RBTs of Hydras. The Hydras are very valuble since they can support charge very effectively and are, like the Shades, not hindered by terrain. On the other hand, RBTs might be better to grasp my shooting superiority a little tighter.

I've been given sound advice so far! Keep it up! 8)

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:50 pm
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It's obvious to me that this is a raiding/scouting force and for that I think that any infantry or RBT would be out of the question.

I'd look at adding another unit of Shades, COK, maybe COC, pegasus, manticore, or dragon, mounts and hydra. maybe even add more DR. The Manflayers if you want instead of Shades, but they're too rich for my blood.

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Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:30 pm
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Try adding a unit of RXBmen with shs. They can provide ranged support and can mop up any survivors to the torent being as good as warriors in combat!!


Trust me, I play Wood Elves!!

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Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:47 pm
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Uh oh. I just noticed something. Your second sorceress has no steed and no unit to go in (unless you choose not to scout with your shades). I would suggest picking up a steed for her. You could drop either the harpies or shades, buy the sorceress a steed and boost the other squads numbers a bit (if you drop harpies, boost shades or vice versa).

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Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:33 pm
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Yes, but the Cloak of Dark Souls helps because she can then Scout.

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Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:20 am
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In the new list the unsteeded sorc doesn't have CODS though, so a steed is pretty much essential.

Nice list, let us know how it plays out.

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Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:10 am
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Guys, she HAS the steed. ;) The one on foot joins the Shades, but I won´t scout them. And this list just won its first battle today, against our hated Asur kin no less. Their lone scroll caddy (his General :lol: ) could not hold back the raw Death Magic that wsa being unleashed by my Sorcs - even though the WoK fluffed on turn 2.

He had a killer Prince among a unit of Swordmasters. At least I assume he was a killer, after his bodyguard got whittled down by a couple of turns of dedicated firepower, a combined rear/flank charge of 2 DR units saw the remainder running :twisted:

Harpies! God I love Harpies. The 2 Repeater Bolt Throwers were eliminated in turn 3 and 4. Kudos!

I had the most trouble with his spearblocks and chariot. To be honest, I concentrated my fire elsewhere, the Swordmasters and his Archers had to suffer the most of it, leaving the common soldiers and the cart unharmed while they entered my territory. It was fun to see him chasing my Shade/Sorc unit, until the last turn when an unfortunate Miscast fried that Sorc. Anyway, I dominated the movement phase quite nicely, and I can´t wait to get my bolts dirty on even worse armoured targets! :twisted:

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:20 am
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Sounds really good! How many point armies did you play? And how do sorc-guarding non-scouting shades work?
I have to admit that I like your lists more and more. I your 1500 points army the hydra is a perfect choice. It adds hitting power, but still moves as a skirmisher with M6, which fits the outmanouvre-idea in this list. :D

On a personal note: I often play versus OK and lizzies, meaning that I am facing M6 units and M6 skirmishers. How would prevent getting outmanouvred by them with for example your sorc + shades unit?

Sulam

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Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:21 am
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The tournament is for 1K armies, so no Hydra joining in I'm afraid :? :)

My tactics for the Shades/Sorc unit are not very subtle. I just deploy them as far forward as possible, then march them into a convenient piece of terrain if available. In any case, they should present a juicy target for my enemies' fast units and most players are very thirsty for those VP. The unit seems like a pushover... but by sending the fast units first, I can single them out with the rest of my army pretty easily (if that word can ever be used by us). If (s)he doesn't, it means facing a lethal barrage again next turn. Either way, fine by me!

Against OK and Lizzies... naught but assumptions as I never tested this list against them. Yet. :twisted: But here are my expectations...

OK: concentrated missile fire should cause Panic to even the largest of Ogres. Their speed is a definite problem - and so are the underrated Gnoblar Trappers. Not sure what to do against those elements except getting the hell outta the way. Most successful OK lists I faced featured multiple Butchers - and this list dominates the Magic Phase anyway, so less buff for the barbarians.

Lizzies: Skinkies are definitely annoying so ganging up on isolated units seems like a good idea - their Ld SUCKS and with T2, they die to our rxb fire in droves. With this list I'd NEVER charge them. Kroxigors are dangerous so these should be high on the priority list as well but save the Saurus blocks for last. Slow buggers; after the rest of the army is vanquished they can be dealt with at your leisure. Hopefully I can keep myself out of combat ;)

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:44 pm
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ALL HAIL THE REPEATER CROSSBOW! Today, I faced a Lizardman player and our unique ranged weapon really saved the day. His army consisted of a Saurus block, 2 units of Skink skirmishers, 3 Kroxies, 5 Cold One Cavalry joined by a Veteran-thingy, 1 unit of Chameleon Skinks (so I knew the Saurus block wasn't blessed :twisted: ), and 1 Skink Shaman (who turned out to be carrying 2 Dispel Scrolls). Quite small, and I was really happy about that - all the more room to manoeuver!

I rolled for spells: Drain Life (def) Dark Hand + Wind of Death on DS Sorc, Wind of Death + Doom & Darkness on foot Sorc.

He held his Shaman back in 1 skirmisher unit, scouted the Chameleons, paired the cavalry unit with the other skirmishers with the Kroxies placed behind them. I remembered the Lizzies having a special rule about charging through Skinks with Kroxigors, and they have M6 (I know this from playing against my little brother) so I was quite wary of these hammer units.

Though the they cost me the Harpies and a DR unit, this unit and the forward Skinkies were decimated in short order by my crossbow fire, wiping them out altogether. I tried to contain the Kroxies with a DR unit harrying them. A barrage of magic missiles (yaay Death :twisted: ) was directed at the cavalry unit, drawing out the 2 scrolls early - a turn later the skirmisher unit containing the Shaman was sent fleeing off the field anyway. The cavalry unit ripped up a DR unit, but the Lizzies had no magic defense whatsoever now - and I suffered no Miscasts through the entire battle, if you catch my drift ;)

They were whittled down until only 2 were left. I charged them with both DR units, the one with Sorc in the flank. Luckily, I passed both Fear tests. I cast D&D on them, and did not cause any casualties, losing 1 DR in return (Veteran did not perform as expected :twisted: ) and CR + D&D saw them being run down by my bloodthirsty DR :lol: That's the second time the enemy fighting Hero did not get to shine against me :D They then proceeded to flee from some very angry Kroxies - but with all the bolts (of all sorts) aimed at them, they did not survive to get into combat.

Another CRUSHING victory for my army of cheese, and one VERY disillusioned opponent! :D

Favorite line this match: "I'm not gonna fight you! Look how strong you are!" -"Then get the hell out of my way!" -".....Naah." :twisted:

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:18 pm
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Congrats on the win. I d say your list was nearly perfectly built to combat a lizard army of that type. With superior movement of most of your troops you could whittle down his numbers and choose to fight where you want. I look forward to see what happens next. Keep it coming.


Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:39 pm
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Great game and a very good result. Congratulations!
This afternoon I decided to test this kind of army myself in a 1000 points game. It contains a slight change. I took:
sorc dsc, seal, lvl2
sorc WOtK, ds, lvl2
Noble ha,sdc,lance,ds,shield of ghrond
2x 5 Dr with rxb and mus
5 shades
5 harpies
9 shades

I fought a battle against O&G. Two scary infantry blocks: Big úns and Black orcs didn't get in CC at all, save for a little mistake I made. :oops:
7 powerd dice plus bound spell just preformed great. His two shamans weren't able to counter all thoe spells at all. The noble in a DR unit crushed two boar chariots this game. When doing that I used a typical druchii tactic: Turning your opponent's strength against himself. I let his chariot flee trhough his BO so that impact hits and a panic test were caused. :twisted:

In short: It's cheesy, but it's fun to actually be able to control a battle, at least, in the movement phase.

Sulam.

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Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:16 pm
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Sulam wrote:
I let his chariot flee trhough his BO so that impact hits and a panic test were caused. :twisted:
I have yet to perform this feat of arms, never managed to pull it off. Congrats on that! :D

Did the Noble justify his cost?

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:26 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 1408
Location: Owns all the slaves responsible for monsterdoo removal, stables of Karond Kar
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Congratulations on your result. The sort of tactics that you used is why I'm a cheesy git here. The enemy can get very frustrated if they cannot come to grips and feel that they had no chance and can do nothing about it.

Keep up the great work.

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I like the sound of screaming in the morning; it invigourates the soul.


Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:28 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 2661
Location: Group 22 RP thread
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Well, if dominance means cheesiness, I can only conclude that any assault-oriented HoC army is cheesy too. Same goes for defensive Dwarf armies. People should really stop whining about us doing what we do best, or attack others as well.

Rant off. :D

_________________
Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:39 pm
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