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Essential units in small games 
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Dark Rider
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After looking at a bunch of 1000pt lists and smaller, there are some units that seem to be in every list (especially dark riders). I was wondering what units everyone feels should be in any small DE army to get the best results.

My vote would have to go towards dark riders; they're by far my favorite unit in the DE army.


Sun May 11, 2008 6:19 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Noble, Dark Riders, Depends on the army, but crossbowmen always come in handy. Often some RBT's

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Sun May 11, 2008 6:24 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard
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Ehakir wrote:
Noble, Dark Riders, Depends on the army, but crossbowmen always come in handy. Often some RBT's


Those are the units I always field and which forms the bulk of my army. Usually chariots come along, and more often than not Knights make an apperance.

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Sun May 11, 2008 6:38 pm
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shooting units, and units that can brfeak on the charge

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Sun May 11, 2008 7:39 pm
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Executioner
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I like speed in small games. Therefore DR, Nobles on DS, definitely chariots and a few shooty guys as well-- RBT or you may be better off with the versatility of RxB wars with shields. CoK are also a good choice.
If your willing to invest the points a manticore or hydra are great in small games.

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Sun May 11, 2008 7:42 pm
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Master of Puppets
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DR, hunter Nobles, COC.

Speed, hitting power and speed, punch. Then take as many of those that you either run out of models or hit the points limit. After that, your list is ready :)

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Sun May 11, 2008 7:49 pm
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So far, sorc, RXB and Coks. I mostly play on 4'x4' so DR aren't that useful, they can't bait without running off the table, but the CoKs and RXBs intimidate and dominate movement nicely.

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Sun May 11, 2008 7:49 pm
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Executioner
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Magic is far to expensive for small games imo. 130pts for a base lvl 2, say you give tome and a scroll thats 170pts. Almost a fifth of your entire army in one model that may or may not do anything. Even a caddy, lvl 1 with 1 or 2 scrolls will run you 115-140 pts. Thats more than the price of a RBT, unit of 10 RxB's, 5 DR...well you get the idea.
I think rolling magic into any small list is crippling you before you start the game.

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Sun May 11, 2008 7:59 pm
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Dark riders are useful in any small army. After that, you can look at strategy for what's left as necessary. If you want high movement, go for small units of knights, harpies, and maybe a manticore. For something more hitty, a noble on a chariot is pretty close to essential for me I find. I'd rarely ever bother with magic at 1K games.

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Sun May 11, 2008 8:03 pm
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The first 1k of most of my armies are usually a hunter noble on peggy, a caddy on ds, 2 units of DR's, 2 RBT's, a unit harpies and 1 unit of RxB warr's. No matter the size of the battle these usually fits in there anyway and in smaller battles they work well. In 1k battles I generally just avoid the enemy throughout the battle and shoot my foe to shreads.
Quote:
I mostly play on 4'x4' so DR aren't that useful, they can't bait without running off the table, but the CoKs and RXBs intimidate and dominate movement nicely.
That have never happened to me and I play on 4x4 too.

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Sun May 11, 2008 8:12 pm
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What is the reasoning for a caddy on a DS? Its just a waste of 12pts

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Sun May 11, 2008 8:15 pm
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Aginor26 wrote:
What is the reasoning for a caddy on a DS? Its just a waste of 12pts
In a 1k game a caddy is not just a caddy. Shes also often capable of casting spells so she will need to get closer to the enemy as soon as possible. Also its very complicated to catch a caddy on ds. In a 1k army she shuts down the enemy magic aslong as shes alive. Having the movement to keep up with the DR's seems like a worthy ''waste'' of 12 pts.

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Sun May 11, 2008 8:25 pm
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I would never field a 1000 pts without a unit of RxBwarriors and a Chariot.

Quote:
Also its very complicated to catch a caddy on ds.


But oh so much easier to shoot her to death?


Sun May 11, 2008 8:36 pm
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I don't think I've ever lost my scroll caddy on foot.

Wel apart from that one time I charged her into a unit of gnoblars :P

Anyway, essential units in small games...

Chariots are IMO essential. They do an awful lot of damage and don't cost much. I also like to use DoW ogre bulls in games of 1000 points and under. They're a great multi-purpose unit (killing knights AND killing ranked infantry ;) ).


Sun May 11, 2008 8:42 pm
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Dark Rider
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for a sorceress, what about just using a naked lvl 1 (not literally) on a dark steed? For about 100 pts that gives you a chillwind every turn on 3 dice that could help neutralize enemy shooting. Inside a unit of DRs she'd be tough to take out if the opponent's shooting is inactive because of the chillwind. You could take a scroll or seal of ghrond if you really wanted, but would a 100 pt sorc be of any use?

or would a unit of DRs with a mus be better...? Or RxBmen... I guess they all have their own merits, but has anyone ever tried this before?


Sun May 11, 2008 9:31 pm
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You have 3pd against your opponents 2dd assuming he has no casters. IF your opponent only has 1 unit of shooters, you still have to wound with chillwind--that means rolling a 4 or 5 against most targets and getting through whatever armor is there. I think a unit of RxB warriors would be infinitely more useful in this size of a game, as they have much more reliable shooting, and they can fulfill a certain aspect of combat that the sorc cannot

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Sun May 11, 2008 9:41 pm
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my army automatically takes 2 units of DR, 2 chariots and 2 RBTs in any size game. I also found that 1 lvl2 sorc with the seal and a scroll could counter 2 lvl2 wizards really well - 2 games i didnt suffer at all (and one of those was a TK army)

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Sun May 11, 2008 9:53 pm
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Quote:
For about 100 pts that gives you a chillwind every turn on 3 dice that could help neutralize enemy shooting


Level 1's can only use 2 PD's per spell.

So it would be 2 PD's vs 2 DD's. Not really worth 100 pts imo.
Better to just upgrade to lvl 2.


Sun May 11, 2008 9:56 pm
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Dark Rider
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oh right...forgot about that. i dunno if i'd want to spend the 170ish pts for a lvl 2 with items in such a small game. unless facing vampires or other magic dependent armies i might just settle for a seal of ghrond on a noble...

crossbowmen or DRs would be much more handy to have around


Sun May 11, 2008 10:03 pm
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I find magic to be useful in this size. If your opponent doesn't take any magic then you've got an obvious advantage right there and even if they do have a wizard they're likely to only have 3dd at most, and therefore only able to dispel one of your 2 spells each turn. I usually go a lvl2 sorc with the Tome of Furion. You want to be casting 2 spells each turn and I find that having the extra spell gives me a much better chance of having 2 useful spells on any one turn.

Also you need to take a hero anyway, and a noble will set you back around 80pts + magic items, 130ish if you go all out and more for mounts, so high points cost characters are an issue for DE even if you go the combat route. I find that the ability to do something in all phases is worth it, and usually take a sorc instead of the noble.

Bolt throwers seem to make it into most of my small lists, although it could just be because my friends insist on using large amounts of armoured troops.

I tend to vary my core choices a lot between games, so I might see what other people think, instead of putting forth my own thoughts in this area as I obviously haven't made up my mind yet.


Mon May 12, 2008 4:57 am
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Hmmm interesting idea with using your sorceress as your general. I think that would be the only viable way of using magic at such a low point level.

Otherwise I would simply stick with a noble for Ld and for combat ability. Either way I would only take 1 character at 1k points.

Essential units for me would include 1+ units of DR, a chariot, some RXB, and maybe a bolt thrower.


Mon May 12, 2008 7:06 am
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Quote:
Hmmm interesting idea with using your sorceress as your general. I think that would be the only viable way of using magic at such a low point level.


I disagree with this statement completely. I have, with great success, gone magic heavy in 1000 points. The list includes 2 maxed out lvl2s ( 1 with wand of kharaidon, the other with darkstar cloak, seal of Ghrond ), four DR units, a pack of Shades and 5 harpies.

The vast majority of opponents will just stand there frustrated as massed magic and crossbow fire tear their army to shreds. Hell, it even sometimes works against dwarves.


Mon May 12, 2008 7:22 am
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Essential you say... well I found that terror causing flyers and chariots are essential if you want to give your opponents in a tourney a decent thrashing ;)

My meanest list so far consisted of two units of Dark riders, a Beastmaster on Manticore, two chariots and a unit of Coldone knights.
That has all the essential things to win, especially against all those new armies out there. Of course some would call this cheesy, but essentially you need speed, manoeuvrability and psychology (fear, terror) to win. Magic is nigh useless as far as I'm concerned as you can easily mess up the casting of one spell by rolling badly and then you end up having the other spell you have dispelled by even the slightest of magical defences. The only way around that is to take 4 levels of magic, but that is cheesy too...

THE essential unit in any dark elf army is dark riders - you will have a hard time winning without them. The rest is up to personal preference and depends on the tactics you use and your style. But dark riders just cannot be left out :D

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Mon May 12, 2008 8:42 am
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Zibion wrote:
Quote:
Hmmm interesting idea with using your sorceress as your general. I think that would be the only viable way of using magic at such a low point level.


I disagree with this statement completely. I have, with great success, gone magic heavy in 1000 points. The list includes 2 maxed out lvl2s ( 1 with wand of kharaidon, the other with darkstar cloak, seal of Ghrond ), four DR units, a pack of Shades and 5 harpies.


Don't quite see where you are disagreeing there... your general is a sorceress, quite obviously. ;)

I think the point was, that if you go magic in low points games, you cannot also add a fighty character. At least that's how I would understand it, and your army pretty much conforms to that statement, hence no disagreement. :D

Bye
Thanee


Mon May 12, 2008 9:26 am
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Dark Rider

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While not essential, I've had good success with using a level 2 sorceress with darkstar cloak as my general in 1000 point games. Even the humble chillwind or dark hand of death (my personal preferrence) can make a mess of small units, which is generally what you'll be facing in 1000 lists.

Sure, she is vulnerable, and more than once I've had either the sorceress or the unit carrying her be forced to flee from a superior enemy, fail their subsequent rally test, and carry on off the table, taking my entire magic offense with them.

Also, the range of targets that a tooled up noble can take down by himself is rather limited. Unless he was a dedicated hunter noble going for a mage, then I wouldn't charge him into a ranked infantry regiment by himself, he'd need to work in conjunction with other units. Whereas a level 2 sorceress is perfectly capable of laying sufficient magic smackdown on a unit to force a panic check and send them running for the hills.

Of course the dice can always decide otherwise ;)


Mon May 12, 2008 9:29 am
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