Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:03 am



Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
arcane/enchanted item weirdness 
Author Message
Trainee Warrior
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:45 am
Posts: 30
Location: Victoria, BC, CANADA
Ok so near as I can figure it, we have 7 enchanted items, *5* of which are one use only! And one of the last 2 is another expendable (Dragons teeth)! Wth?

And then arcane items. 5 total. Just...5. For an army split from the original magic casters and 'masters of dark magic' this seems awfully low dont you think?


Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:11 am
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 4:40 pm
Posts: 526
Location: Charlotte, NC (USA)
Post 
Well, I agree... I *really* wish they'd seperated some of the arcane items into the enchanted section so we could take more useful combinations. Most of the enchanted items are of little use to a mage... I really wish I could take the Tome of Furion with one of the powerdice producing items. Unfortunately, as it stands, the tome is going to get overlooked as most folks opt for the more useful items like the black staff, focus familiar, Sacrificial Dagger, or Darkstar Cloak.

_________________
Project Log on Warseer.com: Host of the Golden Spires of Immutable Anguish


Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:27 am
Profile
Trainee Warrior
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:45 am
Posts: 30
Location: Victoria, BC, CANADA
Post 
To be honest I think I would definitely go with the staff, familiar and dagger in a magic heavy army, but I would favour the extra spell over the cloak considering how every mage can generate extra spell dice with the 0 lvl dark spell.

It also leaves room for lifetaker, guiding eye, or seal of ghrond, etc. on a lvl 1/2.


Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:41 am
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:24 am
Posts: 531
Location: Victoria, BC, on the Western shores of the New World
Post 
Quote:
To be honest I think I would definitely go with the staff, familiar and dagger in a magic heavy army, but I would favour the extra spell over the cloak considering how every mage can generate extra spell dice with the 0 lvl dark spell.

It also leaves room for lifetaker, guiding eye, or seal of ghrond, etc. on a lvl 1/2.

I agree. The staff is overpriced at 55pts, and the darkstar cloak isn't really needed. The tome seems like it doesn't do much but it's a better chance of getting the spells you want, at only 15pts. I guess sorceresses could use the dragon egg item to protect her from magehunters. Other than that the enchanted items are more fit for non-casters. By the way I wouldn't take the guiding eye, unless it's for an important stand and shoot reaction.

_________________
People say "insert problem" but it's better to say "insert improvement"


Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:22 am
Profile
Rending Star
Rending Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:10 am
Posts: 5030
Location: Germany
Post 
I will almost always use the Tome of Furion, actually, and I doubt I will ever use the Black Staff; the Supreme Sorceress will either have the Dagger or the Familiar, I think, depending on mount choice.

Bye
Thanee


Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:42 am
Profile
Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
Posts: 9728
Location: In the paintshop
Post 
The tome is an awesome choice. Remember...we have an innate ability for creating extra dice so there's no need to get hung up on not being able to take it with the dagger or the darkstar cloak.


Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:31 am
Profile
Malekith's Personal Guard
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:13 am
Posts: 898
Location: Cold north of Sweden
Post 
Yes but still, there will be many times in where you can't generate enough PD to get all those spells through. Running a single LV4 maybe should be sufficent?

_________________
Nagathi wrote:
Fighting fair is for High Elves.
~ Nag


Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:34 pm
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 6:02 pm
Posts: 672
Location: Europe
Post 
the arcane choices are really bad - except the dagger...
dagger has the best effect onlevel 4 sorc, because you can use it 4 times in principle! staff with 55 points is too expensive for level 1/2... and please think of items which grant +1DD+1PD or +2PD for 50 points.
the other stuff like +1 DDor +1PD is more expensive now, so you can't combine it together or with lifetaker (which has the best effect for sorcs, because she won't be in combat, can shoot almost every round and has a crapy BS, so she profits a lot from 2+ to hit).
i don't know what they were thinking - cannot imagine the new magic is that effective that you can strip DE from useful arcane items.
"hey - let's make their magic powerful because it fits their style - but let's remove useful items so no one can take real advantage from that"; thx GW - or thx playtesters who did not recognise this obvious nonsense!

_________________
At last, we will have revenge...


Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:04 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:54 pm
Posts: 2503
Location: Québec, Canucksda.
Post 
lack of offensive bound spell items is sad.


Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:33 pm
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 6:02 pm
Posts: 672
Location: Europe
Post 
indeed - have a look on VC, HE - even empire can have a nice magic phase imo (thx to their sigmar priests which add some power, while still beeing able to go into combat)

_________________
At last, we will have revenge...


Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:36 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:54 pm
Posts: 2503
Location: Québec, Canucksda.
Post 
Just the rod of power makes me wonder why they gave empire such strong items... the guy I played against had 8 or 9 dispel dice everytime with 2 level 2s, archlector and that stupid rod.


Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:02 pm
Profile
Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:57 pm
Posts: 803
Location: Hell
Post 
To be fair, all the sorceress's pretty much come with a magic item now - last ed. being able to use unlimited power dice took up an arcane slot, now they all have it.

_________________
Punishment leads to Fear. Fear leads to Obedience. Obedience leads to Freedom. Therefore, Punishment leads to Freedom.

Kuyoz Nightkiller
WS: 4 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Repeater Crossbow, Short Sword, Shade Cloak, Light Armour
5 throwing daggers, 90gc


Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:13 pm
Profile WWW
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:05 pm
Posts: 21
Post 
They came with a free magic item last edition also: they had a built-in +1 to cast.


Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:22 pm
Profile
Purveyor of Pain
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:24 am
Posts: 1721
Location: Wherever the fight is
Post 
I can't complain about our arcane items since they are all very good. It would be totally different if the items included were terrible, but we are talking about the sacrifical dagger, focus familiar, tome of furion, darkstar cloak, and black staff. None of those is bad. Each one provides additional tactical flexibility and magical power. What's not to like there?

_________________
castrensis in totus res
Fight my Brutehttp://suckerpunch77.mybrute.com
Try Evony!http://zao77s.evony.com


Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:35 pm
Profile
Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:57 pm
Posts: 803
Location: Hell
Post 
Also - how many wizards are you planning on taking? There's five available - how often are you really like to take more than five wizards (even before going into power stones/dispell scrolls).

_________________
Punishment leads to Fear. Fear leads to Obedience. Obedience leads to Freedom. Therefore, Punishment leads to Freedom.

Kuyoz Nightkiller
WS: 4 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Repeater Crossbow, Short Sword, Shade Cloak, Light Armour
5 throwing daggers, 90gc


Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:42 pm
Profile WWW
Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
Posts: 9728
Location: In the paintshop
Post 
Saithis wrote:
the arcane choices are really bad - except the dagger...
dagger has the best effect onlevel 4 sorc, because you can use it 4 times in principle! staff with 55 points is too expensive for level 1/2... and please think of items which grant +1DD+1PD or +2PD for 50 points.
the other stuff like +1 DDor +1PD is more expensive now, so you can't combine it together or with lifetaker (which has the best effect for sorcs, because she won't be in combat, can shoot almost every round and has a crapy BS, so she profits a lot from 2+ to hit).
i don't know what they were thinking - cannot imagine the new magic is that effective that you can strip DE from useful arcane items.
"hey - let's make their magic powerful because it fits their style - but let's remove useful items so no one can take real advantage from that"; thx GW - or thx playtesters who did not recognise this obvious nonsense!


This is the biggest load of crap I've seen posted so far.

The Dark Elf magic phase is devastating. Simple as that. I make that statement from gaming experience during the development of the book.

If you can't see that then I guess it's a Khaine list for you.


Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:48 pm
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 6:02 pm
Posts: 672
Location: Europe
Post 
Dark Alliance wrote:
The Dark Elf magic phase is devastating. Simple as that. I make that statement from gaming experience during the development of the book.

If you can't see that then I guess it's a Khaine list for you.


lol, if you insist i'll build you an HE magic lists which will blow every possible DE stuff in offensive power!
and some experience should help to set correct item values - don't take it personal, but dowing items because of abilities is just a joke - or do you see empire gunmen running around with BS2 because their arms are that hard?

and yes, i'll definately use 2 sorcs max in 2k points... i am glad i am no big fan of magic heavy armies at all; this bull**** of rules does won't affect my games

PS: it's more than obvious that these rules really kick in if your opponent has no more magic defense (or let's say not much) - then you'll crush him. but if you reach that point you have won anyway

edit: i have no idea why people still freak out when they see the rules - wow i can get 100 PD per round is everything is perfect; but they'll never have that much luck - it's more likely they get hit by a lightningbolt. and i want to see their face if they are foced to cast the level 1 or 2 spell with 4 dice (unless they want to kill their sorc) and will prodirce a miscast thy to that; but i guess that the same reason why did not agree to GW fanboys who said VC are fair ballanced; even after 8 of them reached top 10 in last GT... maybe i am missing some kind of understanding these guys have...

_________________
At last, we will have revenge...


Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:07 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2003 8:35 am
Posts: 1119
Location: The Netherlands
Post 
Dark Alliance wrote:
Saithis wrote:
the arcane choices are really bad - except the dagger...
dagger has the best effect onlevel 4 sorc, because you can use it 4 times in principle! staff with 55 points is too expensive for level 1/2... and please think of items which grant +1DD+1PD or +2PD for 50 points.
the other stuff like +1 DDor +1PD is more expensive now, so you can't combine it together or with lifetaker (which has the best effect for sorcs, because she won't be in combat, can shoot almost every round and has a crapy BS, so she profits a lot from 2+ to hit).
i don't know what they were thinking - cannot imagine the new magic is that effective that you can strip DE from useful arcane items.
"hey - let's make their magic powerful because it fits their style - but let's remove useful items so no one can take real advantage from that"; thx GW - or thx playtesters who did not recognise this obvious nonsense!


This is the biggest load of crap I've seen posted so far.

The Dark Elf magic phase is devastating. Simple as that. I make that statement from gaming experience during the development of the book.

If you can't see that then I guess it's a Khaine list for you.



The DE magic phase is devastating, but I agree with others that its really hard to make useful combo's since pretty much every useful item for a sorceress is an arcane item, and the useful items that are not arcane items cannot be combined with the useful arcane items because they are too expensive.

_________________
Now it's been ten thousand years. Man has cried a billion tears.
For what he never knew, now man's reign is through.

But through eternal night. The twinkling of starlight.
So very far away. Maybe it's only yesterday.


Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:30 pm
Profile
Dark Rider
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 125
Location: went sailing
Post 
Quote:
if you insist i'll build you an HE magic lists which will blow every possible DE stuff in offensive power!

I'd like to see it...

_________________

Beware the Beast of Pirates Bay!


Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:09 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:54 pm
Posts: 2503
Location: Québec, Canucksda.
Post 
I just think the Vortex Shard (75 pts arcane) is funny as it can be used any time during the magic phase.

Let the Dark elf use his Power of Darkness spells and then vortex the field - automatically ends the magic phase, thus all the unused darkness dice will cuse S4 hits on the sorceress.

But its to expensive as magic defense.


Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:27 pm
Profile
Noble

Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:40 pm
Posts: 420
Post 
Well I agree that all the obvious magic item choices for a sorceress are arcane which makes choosing one difficult, I don't agree that the other item slots are useless. The other item choices might not stand out immediately, but with a little thought you can put most of them to good use.

I have been using the ring of darkness, gem of nightmares and the sacrificial dagger on a high sorceress in a block of spears, with an assassin and it has made quite a lethal trap.

The amount of cheap one use items is a little annoying, but if you time them right, the 25 points you pay can be worth it's wait in gold. The only item I really dislike and see no use for is the crystal of midnight...

BTW I have been playing the "get you by" hordes of chaos list and it is almost devoid of any worthwhile item for a sorceress, I wasn't even using magic items for anything. Many of you will probably argue chaos doesn't need magic items to win and flimsy elves do. If you really don't like the items that much you don't have to take them, there are plenty of other ways to use the extra points in the DE list.


Last edited by Dread_knight666 on Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:32 pm
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 6:02 pm
Posts: 672
Location: Europe
Post 
Elven prince wrote:
Quote:
if you insist i'll build you an HE magic lists which will blow every possible DE stuff in offensive power!

I'd like to see it...


ok... will probably contain the book of hoet, ring of fury & ring of corin at least add the banner of sorcery.. have to see the book for exact points and how many additional dice i can add to that.
i'll try to get the book from a friend tomorrow or on monday - then you'll see details

PS: in meantime i would like to see the best DE magic list (without morathi - comparing her magic to teclis would be bad probably) plus the best way to play it.
main question is - PoD first or leave 1 dice per sorc to cast it in the end for example...

edit: this idea is interesting silverheimdal... if you kill a level 4 sorc thx to this if's a lot of fun

_________________
At last, we will have revenge...


Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:34 pm
Profile
Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
Posts: 9728
Location: In the paintshop
Post 
How can you not make useful combinations??

Focus familiar plus scroll...

Sacrificial dagger plus scroll...

Lifetaker plus tome of furion...

Lifetaker, null talisman, focus familiar, scroll...


Just because I said the magic phase was devastating, didn't mean it is the be all & end all of the list. Good lists are about balance and redundancy (remember redundancy...??).

And as for being expensive, well that depends on whether you are looking at hero casters or Lord level.

Here's another combo for you (patented by Underway!) - black dragon egg and a power stone.

How many more do you want??

What hacks me off the most is all this whining about how bad stuff is you ain't even really had the opportunity to try out properly yet.

Some of you guys are never satisfied, and as for the comment about "playtesters and nonsense"...! :evil:


Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:40 pm
Profile
Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
Posts: 9728
Location: In the paintshop
Post 
Saithis wrote:
Elven prince wrote:
Quote:
if you insist i'll build you an HE magic lists which will blow every possible DE stuff in offensive power!

I'd like to see it...


ok... will probably contain the book of hoet, ring of fury & ring of corin at least add the banner of sorcery.. have to see the book for exact points and how many additional dice i can add to that.
i'll try to get the book from a friend tomorrow or on monday - then you'll see details

PS: in meantime i would like to see the best DE magic list (without morathi - comparing her magic to teclis would be bad probably) plus the best way to play it.
main question is - PoD first or leave 1 dice per sorc to cast it in the end for example...

edit: this idea is interesting silverheimdal... if you kill a level 4 sorc thx to this if's a lot of fun


When using PoD I always cast it first. I then use those dice before I use any others. Either those belonging to that particular caster, or anyone else.

As for Teclis, if I knew I was going up against him in a list I would most likely use Malekith. His spelleater shield will finish off what the ring of hotek starts. :twisted:

Comparing the relative destructiveness of the magic phases belonging to different races achieves nothing imo. High Elves can also have a truly devastating magic phase, no doubt about that and I won't dispute it. My gripe was your comment about how useless the DE arcane items are.

DE magic is every bit as destructive as High Elf. Difference is ours is more subtle and we don't have to spend points on special characters or magic items to gain the extra dice.


Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:49 pm
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 6:02 pm
Posts: 672
Location: Europe
Post 
Dark Alliance wrote:
How can you not make useful combinations??

Focus familiar plus scroll...

Sacrificial dagger plus scroll...

Lifetaker plus tome of furion...

Lifetaker, null talisman, focus familiar, scroll...


Just because I said the magic phase was devastating, didn't mean it is the be all & end all of the list. Good lists are about balance and redundancy (remember redundancy...??).

And as for being expensive, well that depends on whether you are looking at hero casters or Lord level.

Here's another combo for you (patented by Underway!) - black dragon egg and a power stone.

How many more do you want??

What hacks me off the most is all this whining about how bad stuff is you ain't even really had the opportunity to try out properly yet.

Some of you guys are never satisfied, and as for the comment about "playtesters and nonsense"...! :evil:


pfff... ok so i make some fast comments now before i have to leave...
maybe it's just me - but how many times you need a spell fam.? i never had problems to get spells of - unless you want to hide in a wood i can't see the use of it. the sorc can march and cast - so it's no range bonus i need.

dagger is good i agree here

null talisman - what do you like more? magic res on one model or 1 generl DD? i take nr.2; almost every army has access to that - and these items ARE cheap in gerneral.

leave lifetaker & scroll plus black dragon egg and a power stone... i see 3 one use items here. call me mr.greedy - but yes; i like the option to have 2 normal items which last the complete game

and talking about your last point "Some of you guys are never satisfied" - i think hatred for dragon is imbalanced for example. same goes for 7!!! S5 hydra attacks. the hydra is so damn cheap and if you get her near the enemy with 5HP the breath is insane, too... compare it to 2 RBT...
these points are so hard, it will make the enemy puke. same goes for BG ASF banner and maybe caldron on that.
i don't need that - but i want useful item combinations without beeing forced to take scrolls or powerstones :?

do you think the bound staff for 55 points is fair priced? this is the BEST arcane item for a high sorc? :shock:

and last point - i don't see the sense of casting all PoD first; but ok - i will make some games before i comment on that. we made several little tests and imho casting it first does not help. if you get it off, you would have been able to cast another spell. after you get your additional dice you have to chance to miscast or - if you are lucky to get the ultimate spell of doom your opponent will use a scroll. if you have only 2 dics to cast chillwind he can just take it... voila!
so instead of casting one spell successfully you get nothing or just the same...

_________________
At last, we will have revenge...


Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:05 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software